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Bizzare bonding problems in new cage.

B

bunthenightaway

New Kit
Hi,

I have a 5 year old lop ear female called bridget and a 10 week lion head female called winkle. We have been following all the steps to bond these two over the last month nd now they groom each other and sleep next to each other in a neutral space and seem like best buds, no problems. We didn't neuter them as we have friends who bonded two un neutered females, and we might breed at a later date.

As soon as we try putting them in a completely washed out cage (Bridgets old cage or winkles cage) Bridget chases winkle around trying to aggressively get near her and winkle stamps and is terrified. (there have been no big fights... Yet)

Also if we put them in a run bridget constantly tries to smell winkles bum nip her and scare her and winkle again stamps and runs.

But as soon as we put them in a neutral space all problems seem to go again and they lick and sleep together

Any advice on what to do here?
 
bunthenightaway said:
Hi,

I have a 5 year old lop ear female called bridget and a 10 week lion head female called winkle. We have been following all the steps to bond these two over the last month nd now they groom each other and sleep next to each other in a neutral space and seem like best buds, no problems. We didn't neuter them as we have friends who bonded two un neutered females, and we might breed at a later date.

As soon as we try putting them in a completely washed out cage (Bridgets old cage or winkles cage) Bridget chases winkle around trying to aggressively get near her and winkle stamps and is terrified. (there have been no big fights... Yet)

Also if we put them in a run bridget constantly tries to smell winkles bum nip her and scare her and winkle again stamps and runs.

But as soon as we put them in a neutral space all problems seem to go again and they lick and sleep together

Any advice on what to do here?
Click to expand...

I think this is territorial. Bridget is defending what she views as her territory, even though Winkle's cage obviously wasn't. Bridget is also the older bunny and so is possibly trying to dominate. I don't know where your neutral space is, but could you very gradually enlarge it?

I think the issue might be resolved by neutering, but it's by no means certain and you would prefer not to anyway. I think I would concentrate on one of the problem areas at a time, starting with the run. Nipping bums and a bit of chasing is not too concerning, as long as there is no aggression. Then when they are OK in the run, I would tackle the issue of a cage in much the same way.

I hope that they settle down soon.
 
bunthenightaway said:
Hi,

I have a 5 year old lop ear female called bridget and a 10 week lion head female called winkle. We have been following all the steps to bond these two over the last month nd now they groom each other and sleep next to each other in a neutral space and seem like best buds, no problems. We didn't neuter them as we have friends who bonded two un neutered females, and we might breed at a later date.

As soon as we try putting them in a completely washed out cage (Bridgets old cage or winkles cage) Bridget chases winkle around trying to aggressively get near her and winkle stamps and is terrified. (there have been no big fights... Yet)

Also if we put them in a run bridget constantly tries to smell winkles bum nip her and scare her and winkle again stamps and runs.

But as soon as we put them in a neutral space all problems seem to go again and they lick and sleep together

Any advice on what to do here?
Click to expand...

I also agree with advice given that this issue is largely territorial and would also recommend spaying them both. Many people would argue that rabbits aren’t truly bonded until they are both fixed anyways because of the instability of hormones and how this can affect their relationship.

Just a note regarding choosing not to spay your rabbits, whilst I am not telling you what to do I would strongly advise neutering, especially in females. By the age of 5 years old, a female rabbit has an 80% chance of developing uterine cancer which is for the most part fatal. Therefore, for the rabbits’ own health it is strongly recommend in the vast majority of cases, that spaying is the kindest and safest option; giving them the best quality of life.

Also regarding breeding, if this is why you are not wanting to spay your pets. I would also advise against this, personally. Having volunteered in a animal shelter myself I can tell you first hand that there are so many rabbits in shelters waiting to be adopted, and breeding is unfortunately only adding to the problem. I believe that breeding should be left to certain professionals only for this reason. What you have got to consider is that if you even only choose to breed one of your females, that is potentially 8 kits, and if you choose to sell them on, and even just a couple of those new rabbit owners have the same idea to breed them once, then this number quickly multiplies and many of these rabbits will most likely end up in shelters or worse. I am in no way telling you what to do, as it is your decision at the end of the day, but I really hope you consider the situation fully and do your research. Education is key.
 
mismatchbunnies said:
I also agree with advice given that this issue is largely territorial and would also recommend spaying them both. Many people would argue that rabbits aren’t truly bonded until they are both fixed anyways because of the instability of hormones and how this can affect their relationship.

Just a note regarding choosing not to spay your rabbits, whilst I am not telling you what to do I would strongly advise neutering, especially in females. By the age of 5 years old, a female rabbit has an 80% chance of developing uterine cancer which is for the most part fatal. Therefore, for the rabbits’ own health it is strongly recommend in the vast majority of cases, that spaying is the kindest and safest option; giving them the best quality of life.

Also regarding breeding, if this is why you are not wanting to spay your pets. I would also advise against this, personally. Having volunteered in a animal shelter myself I can tell you first hand that there are so many rabbits in shelters waiting to be adopted, and breeding is unfortunately only adding to the problem. I believe that breeding should be left to certain professionals only for this reason. What you have got to consider is that if you even only choose to breed one of your females, that is potentially 8 kits, and if you choose to sell them on, and even just a couple of those new rabbit owners have the same idea to breed them once, then this number quickly multiplies and many of these rabbits will most likely end up in shelters or worse. I am in no way telling you what to do, as it is your decision at the end of the day, but I really hope you consider the situation fully and do your research. Education is key.
Click to expand...

I agree with all of this. 2 females is considered the hardest to bond, and that is 2 spayed females. I have to say I don’t think a bond of 2 unspayed females would work out,especially once the youngest hits puberty.
 
mismatchbunnies said:
I also agree with advice given that this issue is largely territorial and would also recommend spaying them both. Many people would argue that rabbits aren’t truly bonded until they are both fixed anyways because of the instability of hormones and how this can affect their relationship.

Just a note regarding choosing not to spay your rabbits, whilst I am not telling you what to do I would strongly advise neutering, especially in females. By the age of 5 years old, a female rabbit has an 80% chance of developing uterine cancer which is for the most part fatal. Therefore, for the rabbits’ own health it is strongly recommend in the vast majority of cases, that spaying is the kindest and safest option; giving them the best quality of life.

Also regarding breeding, if this is why you are not wanting to spay your pets. I would also advise against this, personally. Having volunteered in a animal shelter myself I can tell you first hand that there are so many rabbits in shelters waiting to be adopted, and breeding is unfortunately only adding to the problem. I believe that breeding should be left to certain professionals only for this reason. What you have got to consider is that if you even only choose to breed one of your females, that is potentially 8 kits, and if you choose to sell them on, and even just a couple of those new rabbit owners have the same idea to breed them once, then this number quickly multiplies and many of these rabbits will most likely end up in shelters or worse. I am in no way telling you what to do, as it is your decision at the end of the day, but I really hope you consider the situation fully and do your research. Education is key.
Click to expand...

Agreed. On this website I posted a photo of huge tumors removed from an unsprayed mini rex and I still do not know how it could have grown as large as it did without me knowing. She did survive after emergency surgery and a longer than normal recovery period (plus her age made her a greater risk for surgery though it was her only option).
Females who are not spayed also are more likely to have pseudo pregnancies where their hormones cause them to pull fur nest. Some even produce milk for babies they never had.
Check with your vet to verify your bunny/bunnies are healthy enough to spay.
Has your five year old been breed in the past? If not, allow me to say pregnancy and giving birth has risks for the mother and babies, and risks are greater for smaller breeds with larger heads in proportion to their bodies.
I hope you have better luck with your bonding than I had attempting to re bonding two brothers once they became hormonal. (one could not be neutered due to serious health issues, the other was neutered)
 
I agree with all the above plus a 5 yr old Doe is really too old to have babies. Trying to bond these 2 will be highly stressful for the younger rabbit and stress can cause illness.
 
Hi,
Thanks for all the replys.

As you can probably tell me and my partner know very little about rabbits and are trying to research as much as poss. We actually adopted Bridget from a family friend and fell in love and now winkle is the new addition. I didn't know about the health problems that rabbits can have if unspayed and we will definitely get it done on both of them. We were only thinking breeding as we know someone who does it professionally and they said they said that they would love winkles kits as she is so so adorable (double maine)

Again thanks for the advice--they have been flopping and grooming each other all day and look very very happy (I would attach a pic if it let me) so we will continue as is for now enlarging there neutral zone slowly and then get them spayed ASAP. And then try again in a few months.
 
bunthenightaway said:
Hi,
Thanks for all the replys.

As you can probably tell me and my partner know very little about rabbits and are trying to research as much as poss. We actually adopted Bridget from a family friend and fell in love and now winkle is the new addition. I didn't know about the health problems that rabbits can have if unspayed and we will definitely get it done on both of them. We were only thinking breeding as we know someone who does it professionally and they said they said that they would love winkles kits as she is so so adorable (double maine)

Again thanks for the advice--they have been flopping and grooming each other all day and look very very happy (I would attach a pic if it let me) so we will continue as is for now enlarging there neutral zone slowly and then get them spayed ASAP. And then try again in a few months.
Click to expand...

I’m glad you are so receptive to the advice, and are wanting what is best for your rabbits. Sounds like you’re doing the right thing, and if you need any more help (spay recovery/bonding etc) I’m sure lots of people would be willing to help on this forum. Definitely continue doing your research though as this will undoubtedly benefit your bunnies in their life.
 
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