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Luna has been sneezing // update 31st

OMG the deodorant is a real irritant: one of our friends, who works with my OH, is allergic to any kind of aerosol deodorant or perfume and people think 'oh, you're just complaining' because we've all walked past that person in the street with too much perfume and gagged, haven't we. Well he's got it so bad he basically stops breathing because his lungs stop working. Now he's found out he has COPD and he's late-30s :S I doubt it's as bad as that but worth bearing in mind. I agree as well, I doubt the wshing powder is making it any better to. God luck getting out soon xx

so.. it’s still early days but: sneezing has decreased. she’s still sneezing — but it’s not huge fits for 30-60 seconds like she was having. more so 5 or so sneezes every once in a while. it’s still daily, but small sneezes over massive fits.

her last huge sneezing fit was Wednesday. after that I took the blankets out, scrubbed the lino, and there seems to be improvement. the blanket was massively covered in fur, and needed a wash, but I wanted to keep it as it smelt of them (but obviously not at the cost of her health so it was removed).

it’s hard to work out what the issue is. she seems to have sneezing fits usually triggered by the hay; i’d say 8/10. but then the other 2/10 times she’s just resting, taking a nap, grooming herself. not around the hay. she’s on the opposite side. and it’s not *everytime* she eats hay either [emoji2955]

BF said ofc her nose was said to be quite upset (red, angry looking) by the vet. so if it’s already irritated, everything is gonna irritate it which won’t help in finding the cause!

I might try and order some other hay, and see if that could be the issue. just ruling things off at this point.

blankets didn’t seem to help her sneezing - furry and with hay on them. she’d sniff them and start sneezing usually.

maybe her random sneezes when she’s resting is caused by the hay still?? hay spores on her or just in the room.. idk!! [emoji21]

I could go back to the vet but I don’t know what they could do. she had xrays of her teeth/skull & chest, and those were sent to a specialist. everything came back clear. her teeth are fine from a perspective of looking. heart was listened too and it’s clear, as are her lungs [emoji20] it’s a mystery.


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I might just take time to settle; if she's still got an irritated nose to heal, it'll still cause sneezing with little things. But you should see an improvement over a month I suppose as long as the main causes have gone. Chibbs sneezes at least once a day, sometimes by the hayrack, sometimes while cleaning, sometimes no obvious cause. I think she gets her own fluff up her nose :roll: At least Luna doesn't have fluff around her face to irritate her :lol:
 
I might try and order some other hay, and see if that could be the issue. just ruling things off at this point.

Not sure if you’ve already tried this as just caught the end of the thread but have you tried rinsing the hay? We’ve been having the same sneezing issue with Phillip for over a month and he’s had all the xrays etc but the specialist isn’t sure what it is. He thinks it might be something in the air this year as he’s had lots of sneezing bunnies, more than usual this year. Anyway we’ve been rinsing his hay for a while and his sneezing has decreased. The one time I forgot to rinse it he had a huge sneezing fit!


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I might just take time to settle; if she's still got an irritated nose to heal, it'll still cause sneezing with little things. But you should see an improvement over a month I suppose as long as the main causes have gone. Chibbs sneezes at least once a day, sometimes by the hayrack, sometimes while cleaning, sometimes no obvious cause. I think she gets her own fluff up her nose :roll: At least Luna doesn't have fluff around her face to irritate her :lol:

yea! that’s our thoughts too. it’s just distressing as she has such huge sneezing fits :( she’s worse without the piriton (but with it she isn’t “cured”). I def think it’s some allergen but I really don’t know what [emoji21]


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Not sure if you’ve already tried this as just caught the end of the thread but have you tried rinsing the hay? We’ve been having the same sneezing issue with Phillip for over a month and he’s had all the xrays etc but the specialist isn’t sure what it is. He thinks it might be something in the air this year as he’s had lots of sneezing bunnies, more than usual this year. Anyway we’ve been rinsing his hay for a while and his sneezing has decreased. The one time I forgot to rinse it he had a huge sneezing fit!


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huh! stupid question, how would you do that? [emoji54]

my vet said the same — when I went in with Luna the first time, she said she’s seen lots of sneezing bunnies the past month. fortunately for them tho, it seemed to be fixed with piriton or other similar measures.

Luna’s sneezing is less - i think the soap and deodorant really wasn’t helping. but there is really another issue somewhere.

I think I might order some meadow hay and see. I’ve got two boxes of timothy rn so it will suck if it is the case but I’ll try and sell them perhaps or give them away to somebody or a rescue! if it stops sneezy Luna I think it’s for the best [emoji51]

she doesn’t sneeze always with the timothy but it’s def not helping!


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huh! stupid question, how would you do that? [emoji54]


Not stupid, I asked the same question :lol: :lol:

I literally grab a handful and rinse it under the tap, then squeeze it out. Put the plug down first though so you don't get loads of hay down the plughole!
More time consuming but it's definitely reduced Phillip's sneezing.
 
so I tried rinsing hay but Orion went on strike from eating it, & then I tried offering both, but then Luna ofc started eating both, so I think that defeats the purpose :lol:

latest development: Luna has shared her allergies with me. last night I pulled the hay out to give it to them and coughed for about a minute, wanted to scratch my hands off. same story this morning without the serious coughing (my throat is very irritated tho :s). I've always been allergic to timothy but didn't react to Haybox's. this new box - that we've had open for a few days - I'm now reacting too. Luna is also sneezing much more too :(

I have internet (rejoice!!!!!!!) so I can actually get some different hay. I had a really awful time trying to do anything on my phone.
 
so, I can confirm timothy hay was at least *part* of the problem, as a week back she hopped into the timothy hay box and sneezed for a solid five minutes. she injured herself in doing so, and refused to jump around for a few days, which is quite upsetting.

we have new hay though -- ings hay -- and she def isn't reacting to that. we've had the new hay for a week tomorrow (wednesday).

but she's still sneezing :cry: :?

I'm honestly at my wits end, I don't understand :( the piriton *helps* but its not *solving* it. but I'm really out of ideas. I took her off of the piriton for the day, and her sneezing was a lot worse. but its not solved on the piriton, so I'm really unsure.

I realise it might take time, as this has gone on for so long. but me nor my BF really feel like the situation is improving tbh :S I mean, she isn't having the huge sneezing fits lasting for a minute, and instead she has the 10-20 second sneezing fits.. but that's always been there, just mixed in with the more aggressive & longer sneezing fits. obviously that is good, and is an improvement, but it just feels really stagnant.

the only thing I can think of is that there's still some timothy hay spores lying around, so tomorrow I'm going to drown literally every item they have.

this has been going on since May, which is just far too long. she's getting to the point she's becoming stiff & not as active as she's really hurting herself from all the sneezing. that big sneezing fit a week ago caused her to refuse to jump for a few days, and she struggled to move for a day at least. I'm getting really concerned at this point as it feels like its not getting better. it isn't getting *worse*, but its the same stagnant sneezing.

what I've thought to be the causes:
- allergies to pollen, my vet said she's seen a few rabbits like luna -- BUT it calmed down with piriton which luna's has somewhat, but it isn't "fixed" like you'd expect.
- some sort of irritant in the home -- my dad sprays half a bottle of deodorant a day & we had the neighbours using a whole box of washing power every wash -- but we've moved now and she's still sneezing
- the lino needing cleaning -- in which I've mopped it 4 times now
- the blankets needed cleaning -- they get washed weekly now
- the timothy hay is an allergen -- this is partially correct as evident by her putting her nose in the box and then sneezing for 5 minutes -- BUT we have a new hay now........ and she's still sneezing

& we've tried
- steroids
- x-rays
- a dental & treatment for a gum infection in her mouth
- cleaning everything
- allergy medications
- changing hay

in which we've ruled out any sort of heart condition with her chest x-rays, roots growing into her nose, anything stuck in her nose.

I just. idk :S I feel really upset & frustrated.

I need to call the vet tomorrow to ask about Luna's meds, since they're the new vet. my previous vets sent over Luna & Orion's files, but they might wanna see her to check her over before giving me another prescription for her. I'll see. either way I'll try and book in an appointment.
 
Is there any nasal discharge ?

Is she maintaining her weight ?

I assume nasal polyps have been excluded as a possible cause ?
 
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There is just an outside chance about this, but I think it might be worth a try as you have tried so much that hasn't helped.

I have a chronic problem with allergies and have to take anti-histamine most days. It took a very long time with different types of anti-histamine to find one that worked. For me strangely that is Piriton, the one most commonly prescribed, but that's often not the case with other people. Piriton is also not normally slow-release, so maybe you could discuss with the vet how Luna could be 'topped up' with Piriton throughout the day (I guess you are giving it to her just once a day?). I would also discuss with the vet the possibility of experimenting with different anti-histamines.

The fact that she sneezes after putting her head in the hay suggests to me that it is allergy. Have you tried removing all the hay and feeding them both fresh grass? It's not something that you would be able to do all year round, but it might be worth the experiment to see if it made a difference. If it does then you will know for sure it's the hay, any sort of hay.
 
Is there any nasal discharge ?

Is she maintaining her weight ?

I assume nasal polyps have been excluded as a possible cause ?

no nasal discharge. sneezes are dry and her nose is dry -- well, its always been a tad damp, but she's been that way since adopting her in october 2015. no obvious issues with that, and it hasn't changed.

I do believe she is maintaining her weight. I need to double check as I haven't weighed her since moving, but previously no fluctuations.

I would assume also nasal polyps have been ruled out as my previous vet did look in her nose on multiple occasions.
 
There is just an outside chance about this, but I think it might be worth a try as you have tried so much that hasn't helped.

I have a chronic problem with allergies and have to take anti-histamine most days. It took a very long time with different types of anti-histamine to find one that worked. For me strangely that is Piriton, the one most commonly prescribed, but that's often not the case with other people. Piriton is also not normally slow-release, so maybe you could discuss with the vet how Luna could be 'topped up' with Piriton throughout the day (I guess you are giving it to her just once a day?). I would also discuss with the vet the possibility of experimenting with different anti-histamines.

The fact that she sneezes after putting her head in the hay suggests to me that it is allergy. Have you tried removing all the hay and feeding them both fresh grass? It's not something that you would be able to do all year round, but it might be worth the experiment to see if it made a difference. If it does then you will know for sure it's the hay, any sort of hay.

she's on piriton twice a day as directed by the vet. she's even on "max dose" of 1ml every 12 hours. I can def ask about other allergy medications, but I think from the sounds of it piriton is the only one? I'm willing to be corrected, but most others for animals are tablets / aimed at dogs & cats, so they also taste of meat :lol: that being said, Luna DOES have a taste for meat as evident by her beeline for some spilled chicken broth & a piece of (cooked) chicken that fell on the floor - obviously, she got none, but she's a right weirdo :lol:

I would assume a hay allergy too, as she reacted really badly to the timothy hay. but now, a lot of the sneezes she isn't even around any hay. just last night she was bundled up under the dining table, to suddenly start sneezing. nobody had been near her to trigger it (me or orion). so it just feels...odd. theres no timothy hay in the house now, I put it in the spare room and a lovely lady came to collect it for free for her rabbits. since then, I've vacuumed the house multiple times & and cleaned the lino too. I can only think there's some spores / irritant in their cage rn on toys. I'm going to drown those today in a last ditch attempt.

she got into the bag of ings hay (tipped it over, little mare lol) and was head first in that for a good 10 minutes without any problems. so its really the timothy hay that she has an issue with, I think, I can just only think I need to wash everything in their cage to get rid of it fully.

grass is a good idea, I just don't know how I would sustain it. my back yard has no grass, so I'd have to see about growing it, but I don't think I could sustain them off of grass for a few days to test it out that way.
 
I've booked a vet appointment for her, Wednesday. its a little away but was the best vet to see her.

thing's are getting..a bit worse. I think she's still sore from her massive sneezing fit a week ago. she's just pooping (and peeing) all over the pen atm. i cleaned it yesterday and there's pee stains all over and poop. I assume its her as I've seen her in the litter tray less :( I got her a dog bed as it would be easier to step into, which is helping some, but its not helping the underlying cause.

arthritis + sneezing = not a good mix :S
 
Good luck with Luna: I can empathise with her as I've hurt myself sneezing :roll:

I also second Omi's point about different antihistamines: I had a bite on my leg which had swelled up. I took a Piriton and a few hours later it was twice the size :roll: I gave unbranded cetirizine (10mg, the usual) a go a few years ago (when my hayfever got worse, in my early 30s, yay :roll:) and I've been fine with it. Doesn't do anything to my bites, but crucially doesn't make them worse!

That was a lot of eyerolling :lol:
 
vet has no idea, she's really stumped :( we've tried everything. she's going to contact a few vets she knows to bounce ideas off of them. her breathing is clear, nothing is wrong. nose looks ok, no discharge :?

she's starting to wee herself when she sneezes and she's really quite sore.

the vet is gonna speak to some others and see if they can bounce any ideas back to figure it out.
 
thought I'd give an update!

unfortunately things are getting worse; her right eye has started weeping & she's dropping weight, alongside minimal spurs. very bad cycle as she doesn't want to move, in turn making her arthritis worse & stiffer, which also effects her GI tract. consequently she eats less because she doesn't move, and it hurts to move. her QOL is dropping, she's miserable. she sleeps most of the day with little interest in anything in life. ofc, she is getting older, but the fact that she doesn't even greet me some mornings says enough.

vets4pets really reached the end of the line for what they could do for her, as she became out of their expertise. she had nose swabs which came back clear, so they had nothing more to offer. so they referred us to Stanhope Vets in Darlington. I saw them on Thursday, in which they wanted to do more x-rays to check it hasn't become dental related due to her weeping eye. so Friday I dropped them off for x-rays.

we were looking at two outcomes, neither are great. option 1 being its dental, so we may have to remove teeth. option 2 is that its chronic respiratory inflammation, in which we can not fix, only manage. option 1 is worse short term, but long term she would be fixed so to speak. option 2 is better short term, but worse long term.

either way, the x-rays came back perfectly clear -- so we're dealing with chronic respiratory inflammation. usually its caused via teeth, pasturella, or allergies.

issue with allergies is that when an animal has allergies its usually a broad range of things. so she might be allergic to grass, but we can't really not give her hay, she's a rabbit. she could even be allergic to dust or fur, but we can't manage that too well neither. majority of allergy medicine for animals too is either skin, blood, or stomach. obviously hers is just her nose specifically. could be a combination of stuff. chances of being able to fix it is really slim.

piriton is wildly unsuccessful, only works in 20% of cases. she is in the majority of it not working, sadly

she's extremely congested, you can hear her "wheeze" when she breathes, just because her nose is utterly stuffed full of mucus. & rabbits will not breathe through their mouths, ever.

I feel bummed. I've always had the mentality we could fix this, and it wouldn't be another condition I'm going to be managing up until she eventually passes, like her arthritis. neither outcome was good, removing a rabbits teeth is hell, but trying to make this manageable for her for the rest of her life sucks too. it brings me to tears.

due to her sneezing probably, her back legs are degrading a lot. there's a lot of muscle atrohpy and she is in an extreme amount of pain, she's on the max amount of metacam possible.

so, we've decided that in order to manage this I'm going to have to nebulise her daily, & we're adding tramadol into her mix of pain relief. just to try and get her more comfortable, happy, and the nebuliser should help clear up the mucus. this might help with the sneezing as her airways will be clear, and not blocked up with mucus.

the nebuliser should be here tomorrow, and I'll pick up tramadol from Asda pharmacy on Monday (learned today they did pet prescriptions too..pretty handy, worked out a lot cheaper too than what others have paid, £36).

if that doesn't work, then we have the really bleak choice to make in which we will attempt to swap her over to tramadol totally & make her comfortable, and then also give her steroid injections every few weeks. obviously this is quite literally going to be a last ditch attempt because the steroids will likely be what kills her in the end. quite something to swallow when faced with it.

I've always maintained from the day we found out she had arthritis & had to be on metacam, that I'd very much rather have less years with her in which she is happy, vs more years with her when she is completely miserable. I will always keep that close to me, even if I have to make the heart wrenching decision to essentially put a ticking bomb over her head with steroids, just so we can perhaps have a few more months together in which I can spoil her, and she can live the life she should have been these past few months that she's lost out on.

obviously, I'm hoping I won't have to make that decision, at all. but I am prepared to make it if necessary.

I'd appreciate it if you could keep her in your thoughts, that the nebuliser & tramadol help keep her comfortable :love:
 
Oh Binky Codie , I'm so sorry that you and Luna are having to go through this, and I really hope that the nebuliser and tramadol can help. Sending loads of vibes for your girl, to keep as comfortable as possible for as long as possible xxxx
 
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