Henry at vets again - Henry has sadly gone- U/D 6am thread page 20

Ok- well, we’re back from the vets so this is where we are:
We saw a lovely vet(to be honest the vets we are at are all nice). Henry’s weight is the same as it was 2 days ago but the vet today said she thought Henry felt bony/skinny. That concerned me slit but vet said that is probably just muscle due to him not being well. She felt no nasty surprises but did expel some gas. She said his tummy felt full - so this is a good sign. He just needs to get a poop on. My wife thought Henry was brighter today- but I’m not quite so sure.
We’ve got metaclopromide to get things moving and the vet seemed quite happy about that. Once we can get his gut movement going again, he should start to improve.
I’m sorry I’m not a positive sort of person- I’ve just had a few heartaches with my rabbits who have sadly left us and it never gets any easier and I worry so.
Since Henry wasn’t admitted and the vet didn’t seem to think it was necessary, I’ll take this as a good sign. We’re getting critical care into him. Metaclopromide is 3 times a day.
Graciee- he’s been on sulfatrim for the last 10 days. Vet says to stop that as it’s probably wiped out all the good gut bacteria.
We’ve got some probiotic yoghurt which vet recommended- without the sugar stuff. She suggested baby food but having done a main shop this morning, I spent 10 mins trying to find baby food that didn’t have potatoes or meat in. Even the veggie options didn’t seem appropriate.
I’ve got dried forage on order along with those pellets Graciee kindly suggested.
We’ll try mashed banana later and keep going with critical care, parsley and greens and celery.
I’m off to bawl my eyes out.
I also agree with scrappy above, but at the moment my finances just can’t stretch to a further 300+ quid for X-rays and bloods although I agree 100% that they would be beneficial to give a detailed prognosis. I’m afraid Lillian’s spell of illness last year wiped me out and I was hoping to have started this year with a little less stress. Henry’s having other ideas on that.
On the plus side, Lillian is looking great! She’s stomping round the garden, stuffing her face with grass and eating like mad and ringing her bell for food. I must capture this for you all- once I can sort my head out as I’m feeling the strain now and have a major headache going on which I’m about to take some tablets for.
Thank you so so much for all your guidance and advice and support - the world is a better place with you all there.
Craig xx

Craig 1965 said:

Ok- well, we’re back from the vets so this is where we are:
We saw a lovely vet(to be honest the vets we are at are all nice). Henry’s weight is the same as it was 2 days ago but the vet today said she thought Henry felt bony/skinny. That concerned me slit but vet said that is probably just muscle due to him not being well. She felt no nasty surprises but did expel some gas. She said his tummy felt full - so this is a good sign. He just needs to get a poop on. My wife thought Henry was brighter today- but I’m not quite so sure.
We’ve got metaclopromide to get things moving and the vet seemed quite happy about that. Once we can get his gut movement going again, he should start to improve.
I’m sorry I’m not a positive sort of person- I’ve just had a few heartaches with my rabbits who have sadly left us and it never gets any easier and I worry so.
Since Henry wasn’t admitted and the vet didn’t seem to think it was necessary, I’ll take this as a good sign. We’re getting critical care into him. Metaclopromide is 3 times a day.
Graciee- he’s been on sulfatrim for the last 10 days. Vet says to stop that as it’s probably wiped out all the good gut bacteria.
We’ve got some probiotic yoghurt which vet recommended- without the sugar stuff. She suggested baby food but having done a main shop this morning, I spent 10 mins trying to find baby food that didn’t have potatoes or meat in. Even the veggie options didn’t seem appropriate.
I’ve got dried forage on order along with those pellets Graciee kindly suggested.
We’ll try mashed banana later and keep going with critical care, parsley and greens and celery.
I’m off to bawl my eyes out.
I also agree with scrappy above, but at the moment my finances just can’t stretch to a further 300+ quid for X-rays and bloods although I agree 100% that they would be beneficial to give a detailed prognosis. I’m afraid Lillian’s spell of illness last year wiped me out and I was hoping to have started this year with a little less stress. Henry’s having other ideas on that.
On the plus side, Lillian is looking great! She’s stomping round the garden, stuffing her face with grass and eating like mad and ringing her bell for food. I must capture this for you all- once I can sort my head out as I’m feeling the strain now and have a major headache going on which I’m about to take some tablets for.
Thank you so so much for all your guidance and advice and support - the world is a better place with you all there.
Craig xx

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Hi Craig, so he's now on emeprid, I think Metaclopromide is the same thing, which is good - sometimes my Vet adds cisapride in as well which is another gut stimulant. And you've stopped sulfatrim which I'm pretty sure is an antibiotic. Is he on any pain relief? As stasis/gas can be quite painful for bunnies. Personally I'd definitely want to add a painkiller into the mix, maybe something to discuss with your vet, could just be over the phone.

Not suggesting you get this now, but for the future this is a baby food which is safe, you can get it basically everywhere I've found, there's also one that's green that's just apples.

Do the vets have any ideas what's caused the stasis? Are they thinking it's the uti and he's uncomfortable from it? Has a urine sample been tested? Just thinking expensive diagnostics may not be necessary yet.

Is he drinking lots? I'm always a bit wary of syringe feeding if they aren't passing anything and feel full.

Not necessarily any help here, just listed things I'd be thinking or wondering if it was me, hope that's okay.

Sending you and him lots of vibes xx

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I didn't realise that he wasn't passing any poop?

I wouldn't give a rabbit yoghurt http://www.medirabbit.com/EN/GI_diseases/Food/yogurt.htm

Omi said:

I didn't realise that he wasn't passing any poop?

I wouldn't give a rabbit yoghurt http://www.medirabbit.com/EN/GI_diseases/Food/yogurt.htm

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Yes personally I wouldn't either


If you don't have time to get some baby food another thing you could do is mash up some banana add water make it very watery, take a small bit into a ramekin, suck up the meds, squirt them into the small amount of banana water and suck it all up in the syringe

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Sending millions of vibes. Xxx

Sending more vibes for him x

Omi said:

I didn't realise that he wasn't passing any poop?

I wouldn't give a rabbit yoghurt http://www.medirabbit.com/EN/GI_diseases/Food/yogurt.htm

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Me neither as Rabbits are Lactose intolerant. In the 'old days' it used to be standard advice to give live yoghurt for the probiotic content. But now there are Rabbit specific probiotics eg Fibreplex or Bio Lapis or Pro C Professional.

Metoclopramide only works on the upper GI tract. Usually I'd suggest requesting Ranitidine (Zantac) too as this has prokinetic effects on the lower GI tract as well as protecting the stomach from ulceration. But this drug has currently been withdrawn. So I would want the Vet to consider prescribing Cisapride (Prepulsid) as well as Metoclopramide

See pages 3/4 on here http://anyflip.com/dvpt/hzvv

http://wildpro.twycrosszoo.org/S/00Chem/ChComplex/Cisapride.htm

Thanks everybun. Yoghurt off the menu. Haven't given him that yet. The last few hours have been.......stressful to say the least.
Henry still determindly seeking out and deliberately consuming cardboard - and not small amounts of. In the 2 years we've had him and Lillian, they have been happily spending their nights in a big cardboard box I got from work. It's been cosy and gives them easy access to their food and water. Occassionally they've nibbled a bit to make a hole bigger.
But this afternoon I have discovered an entire corner area missing. That's a large amount of cardboard to eat and this is what is concerning me massively.
Henry spent a while in the toilet area when we got back from vets, then went in to the box and immediately started eating it. I moved him out and then he found more cardboard and started on that. I was at the end of my tether. Henry is doing persistant and continual damage here and it's doing him no good at all. In fact it's undoing every expensive trip to the vet (currently running at 1k since October between him and Lillian).
So I've had to pull apart the entire living area that they have been used to and replace the former sleeping box area with an existing hard plastic indoor cage that we inherited when we had our old bridge bun Georgina. It's a wire cage/plastic base type, quite large but has a deep lip and only one way in and out so quite high. But I cannot trust Henry not to keep eating cardboard in preference to any other food.
We've just wrestled the meds into him and a syringe of critical care and he is so weak. There's little resistance from him other than trying to get anything into the mouth area.
I've tried to move or cover as much paper/cardboard as I can in the room but in our house it's almost an impossibility and I am struggling to try and understand why Henry has locked onto eating cardboard in such huge quantities. My understanding is that this cardboard will block his intestines - unless anyone can advise me differently?
We'll give him some metacam later tonight but the vet indicated that this wasn't necessary. The vet felt that the metacloprimide would start gut movement relatively quickly.
I've just given henry some celery leaves/tops and he's nibbled at them rather than eaten them with passion or hunger.
I've got some bananas so will try them mashed up later.
He is passing some poop - small and a bit soft but at least passing. It's his complete lack of energy and lethargy that is giving me real concerns.
I've not had anything to eat since breakfast at 8am this morning and I am close to collapse both physically and mentally.

Craig 1965 said:

Thanks everybun. Yoghurt off the menu. Haven't given him that yet. The last few hours have been.......stressful to say the least.
Henry still determindly seeking out and deliberately consuming cardboard - and not small amounts of. In the 2 years we've had him and Lillian, they have been happily spending their nights in a big cardboard box I got from work. It's been cosy and gives them easy access to their food and water. Occassionally they've nibbled a bit to make a hole bigger.
But this afternoon I have discovered an entire corner area missing. That's a large amount of cardboard to eat and this is what is concerning me massively.
Henry spent a while in the toilet area when we got back from vets, then went in to the box and immediately started eating it. I moved him out and then he found more cardboard and started on that. I was at the end of my tether. Henry is doing persistant and continual damage here and it's doing him no good at all. In fact it's undoing every expensive trip to the vet (currently running at 1k since October between him and Lillian).
So I've had to pull apart the entire living area that they have been used to and replace the former sleeping box area with an existing hard plastic indoor cage that we inherited when we had our old bridge bun Georgina. It's a wire cage/plastic base type, quite large but has a deep lip and only one way in and out so quite high. But I cannot trust Henry not to keep eating cardboard in preference to any other food.
We've just wrestled the meds into him and a syringe of critical care and he is so weak. There's little resistance from him other than trying to get anything into the mouth area.
I've tried to move or cover as much paper/cardboard as I can in the room but in our house it's almost an impossibility and I am struggling to try and understand why Henry has locked onto eating cardboard in such huge quantities. My understanding is that this cardboard will block his intestines - unless anyone can advise me differently?
We'll give him some metacam later tonight but the vet indicated that this wasn't necessary. The vet felt that the metacloprimide would start gut movement relatively quickly.
I've just given henry some celery leaves/tops and he's nibbled at them rather than eaten them with passion or hunger.
I've got some bananas so will try them mashed up later.
He is passing some poop - small and a bit soft but at least passing. It's his complete lack of energy and lethargy that is giving me real concerns.
I've not had anything to eat since breakfast at 8am this morning and I am close to collapse both physically and mentally.

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My understanding is that a rabbit will crave cardboard because it realises that it needs fibre to help its digestive system. Cardboard in large quantities could cause a blockage. My two rabbits do eat a small amount of cardboard when re-shaping each cardboard box that they have, but the difference is it's a small amount and they are getting lots of other foods which are high in fibre and their digestive systems are currently OK, which I can tell from their poops.

I hope he soon shows some signs of improvement. Is he still wet underneath?

Omi said:

My understanding is that a rabbit will crave cardboard because it realises that it needs fibre to help its digestive system. Cardboard in large quantities could cause a blockage. My two rabbits do eat a small amount of cardboard when re-shaping each cardboard box that they have, but the difference is it's a small amount and they are getting lots of other foods which are high in fibre and their digestive systems are currently OK, which I can tell from their poops.

I hope he soon shows some signs of improvement. Is he still wet underneath?

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Good question. I can't really tell. He's quite bare now round the anal area and he's lost some tail fur but I don't think he is as damp as he was. We've bathed the area with mild water/hibiscrub and a soft cotton wipe. Dried the area and applied flamzene. And thank you for the direction with the cardboard. I am furiously looking on the interweb about this craving and so far, it seems that from what I've found, it's sort of normal and ok. It's just the amount that he has consumed over the last few weeks worries me massively.
As far as foods go, there's hay cookies, loads of hay, greens, parsley, celery and some dried forage I had from the shop at work. So both he and Lillian have got access to a variety of fibreous foods - as much as I can get, and we've removed 95% of the pellet intake.

Topping up the vibes for Henry, no advice, just hugs.

Craig 1965 said:

Good question. I can't really tell. He's quite bare now round the anal area and he's lost some tail fur but I don't think he is as damp as he was. We've bathed the area with mild water/hibiscrub and a soft cotton wipe. Dried the area and applied flamzene. And thank you for the direction with the cardboard. I am furiously looking on the interweb about this craving and so far, it seems that from what I've found, it's sort of normal and ok. It's just the amount that he has consumed over the last few weeks worries me massively.
As far as foods go, there's hay cookies, loads of hay, greens, parsley, celery and some dried forage I had from the shop at work. So both he and Lillian have got access to a variety of fibreous foods - as much as I can get, and we've removed 95% of the pellet intake.

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IME that is a classic symptom of cecal impaction. Does he also sometimes go to eat 'normal' food then drop it ?

Jack's-Jane said:

IME that is a classic symptom of cecal impaction. Does he also sometimes go to eat 'normal' food then drop it ?

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Thanks Jane. Yes, sort of. It’s like he wants to eat but doesn’t. He used to love dried cranberries. Now, you offer one, he’ll take it then drop it.
Will the metaclopromide help relieve this issue?

I would certainly give Henry some pain relief.

If you have another look at the Anyflip link, which Jane provided earlier today, it confirms her advice that Ranitidine and Cisapride should also be given. It would also be beneficial to start giving him fluid therapy. You'll need to give him some water by syringe. This should help to break up any impaction.

Sending him lots more vibes.

Sending more vibes. Be sure he is getting enough fluids.
For vet to be able to express gas it must be further along in gi system. Cisapride may help.

Just syringe fed water to Henry - about 15mls worth and he’s refused banana outright. He’s eaten a small amount of parsley but hasn’t moved really since coming back from vet. Will administer ranitidine along with metaclopromide and metacam at about 10pm and give more critical care.
Thank you all again for following and advice and support.

Poor Henry, I really hope he feels better soon. Loads of hugs for you Craig and all the vibes in the world for Henry xxx

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I would continue with the fluids every few hours when you can. Was the banana being given to disguise meds? It's probably no bad thing he's refused it as it's quite high in sugar, which wouldn't help his tummy.

I hope he picks up during the night.

I'm also really hoping Henry will start to feel better overnight. I really feel for you because it's so worrying when they're poorly and they take so long to respond to treatment. Hopefully the gut meds and the water will start to work soon and Henry will feel more comfortable.

I hope you manage to get some rest tonight.

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Thought I'd post a quick photo taken just now of Henry and me. Henry would like to say a personal thank you to every bun for their continued vibes.
It occured to me that you have never seen me in the flesh (so to speak) so apologies that it's not my best side. I'm afraid I am showing a bit of tiredness/stress/worry - hence the rather haggard look.
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Henry had just had some more water and we will be giving him all his meds in the next half an hour.