Henry at vets again - Henry has sadly gone- U/D 6am thread page 20

Henry has had another vet trip tonight and I’m only a few hours from admitting myself to the local psychiatric unit with stress. My priority is and has been and will be the rabbits by my gosh I just feel like it’s just getting past me now because I just can’t get a handle on what is going on.
Basically Henry is still wet underneath and he was never a wet underneath bun. In fact, other than his deficient eye tear duct (which has mysteriously cleared up) and a limp paw episode a year ago, he’s been fine. But the last week is tough.
The vet visit tonight went like this: temperature is spot on. Teeth are fine. Vital organs sound fine. No lumps, bumps or things there shouldn’t be. Tummy sounds good, no sign of stasis. Weight good, lost about .03 of a kilo from last week.
But he is not himself. He’s eating ok but he’s just not energetic. He just isn’t presenting as right.
We found out he had an opiate pain relief injection last week which was why he was so zonked out.
He’s sore underneath and we’ve been putting sudocrem on but have now switched to flamzene.
Pain med injection given and a different abx injection. Advised to continue with sulfatrim for the next few days.
Next step is X-ray but with nothing that obvious then I’m left scratching my head and eating what’s left of my fingernails.
Will update you all as and when.
Craig.

Oh Henry, why can't you tell us what the problem is! I agree that it's a worry when you know they're not right, but there's no definite diagnosis. Has a urine test been done? I'm presuming that the vet thinks it's possibly a urine infection and a urine test should confirm it.

Sending lots of vibes for him xx

Thanks omi. Yes the vet thinks it could be uti but I’m just left scratching my head and trying to piece together possibles.
It is true Lillian has had a couple of uti’s in the last few months following on from her bladder stone last summer. Lillian’s latest uti was back in November. Soooo, could it be possible for this to be transmitted? I know that’s a really dumb question from me because I’m assuming there’s bacteria involved and I’m assuming the bactrium can therefore be passed in some way? I dunno- I’m just dumb. Also my wife has had an uti for the last few weeks (over Xmas) so could that be a factor?
So we’re working on urinary infection for now and see what happens over next few days.
Thank you for your thoughts omi.

The poor sausage, hope the abx work. Vibes for everybun xx (I don't know but I wouldn't think Lillian could give Henry a UTI & I'd put money on your wife not being able to)

I'm sorry Henry is still presenting with difficulty. When I hear a bun's bum is wet I think mobility. How is he getting about? Is he doing normal jumping and running or is he a bit creaky? My Mimzy had early onset arthritis at 3 years. Daily metacam sorted him but was a lifelong need.

Have any liver/kidney values been assessed with bloodwork lately?

I don't think UTI's are transmittable by different species, but I do wonder what kind of water everyone drinks in the house...2 and 4 leggeds.

Just my thoughts. I hope something can be found to help Henry, and your fingernails. ((((((Healing vibes on the way))))))

MimzMum said:

I don't think UTI's are transmittable by different species, but I do wonder what kind of water everyone drinks in the house...2 and 4 leggeds.

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This was my thought too. Phillip and Snowy went through a stage of getting back to back UTIs until I changed the water they drank.

Sorry to hear he is unwell again Craig. It's so upsetting to watch them like that. Fingers crossed the vet can get to the bottom of it asap xx

Thank you everybun for posting. It is enlightening to read your collective thoughts.
The drinking water that Henry and Lillian have is bottled supermarket spring water (not the bubbly type). I switched to this after reading some of your posts about limescale water and after Lillian’s bladder stone. Although none of my other buns ever had an issue with hard water. We do live in a very limescaley water place. We drink the tap water. I’m never bothered by it and wife usually has hot drinks. I don’t have any hot drinks.
Henry is still very mobile but he’s just got no drive. The biggest clue to something not right is his loss of routine. First thing in morning when I get up, he’s in the living room standing next to door to hall. I open that, he then goes to kitchen, then back then zoom upstairs. He has not done that for couple of weeks now. Just sits there. He has garden time but just runs up the path, not zoomy. And he actively looks for cardboard and/or paper. I’ve had to drag him off a pad of paper he was eating earlier and put some fresh celery tops down for him which he picked at.
Bloods might be the next step - the vet tonight wasn’t totally up for that and preferred an x-ray but I was slightly against that on the grounds that my vet bill since last June is now somewhere around 4K for Lillian and Henry. And Craig’s pockets are sort of drying up.
Henry’s eating (when he can get near the food) and weeing but not sure if he’s straining or not.
I’m baffled.

Oh Craig, I'm so sorry to hear this latest Henry news, I really feel for you, and for Henry of course. I really hope the meds will help clear up whatever is troubling him. Can't offer any advice I'm afraid, but hang in there, you, as always, are doing a great job with Heny. Sending loads of vibes for him xxx

If he's not straining it's likely not a stone or other obstruction, but if he uses a litterbox normally and then you notice he might go off on the carpet or somewhere other than where he's supposed to, especially if it's a high sided litterbox, then that would tell me the joints are freezing up. He won't suddenly be heavily lame, he'll just be thinking twice about doing as much zooming as usual.

I know vets have their expenses but it would be awesome if they could do something about costs. I'm right there with you, I don't even want to know what I've spent on Jenna alone this last year, but I know I've had to recycle bottles for food money as a result.
That being said, an xray of his hips might reveal something. Or if nothing else, do you notice him being a little more sensitive to physical touch in his hindquarters or having trouble grooming there?

Which paw was limp btw? And was he ever tested for E.C. with his eye trouble?

Thank you mimz mum. It was Henry’s left paw exactly a year ago. Went lame. We reckon he jumped on something and caught it. We saw a rabbit savy specialist and she gave him gabapentin and after 2 months of watching poor Henry struggle, he improved very rapidly and regained full use.
His eye is a head scratcher. When we adopted him two years ago we were told he had a blocked duct. The vet at the centre tried numerous time’s to get a tube down and flush but couldn’t. So his eye wept. Then last Easter I noticed white goop in his eye (right eye) and all this goopy matter erupted out. I freaked out and discovered there’s an injection for this that clears it up in three days. Our vet tried to get a tube down, but couldn’t and declared his tear duct abnormally narrow. He had a flare up in October and then mid November, his eye just went perfect. No wetness, nothing. Like it never existed.
Not been tested for ec. Might look into that although I believe we had blood tests done when he was lame last year.

Craig 1965 said:

Thank you mimz mum. It was Henry’s left paw exactly a year ago. Went lame. We reckon he jumped on something and caught it. We saw a rabbit savy specialist and she gave him gabapentin and after 2 months of watching poor Henry struggle, he improved very rapidly and regained full use.
His eye is a head scratcher. When we adopted him two years ago we were told he had a blocked duct. The vet at the centre tried numerous time’s to get a tube down and flush but couldn’t. So his eye wept. Then last Easter I noticed white goop in his eye (right eye) and all this goopy matter erupted out. I freaked out and discovered there’s an injection for this that clears it up in three days. Our vet tried to get a tube down, but couldn’t and declared his tear duct abnormally narrow. He had a flare up in October and then mid November, his eye just went perfect. No wetness, nothing. Like it never existed.
Not been tested for ec. Might look into that although I believe we had blood tests done when he was lame last year.

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Sorry to hear that Henry is causing worries again. The craving cardboard always rings the 'cecum problems' alarm bell for me. Could he be actually straining to poo rather than wee, but the straining results in wee leakage ? A Rabbit with a 'sluggish' cecum often craves the 'wrong' sort of fibre- eg cardboard/paper. They may actually go off/eat less hay and gradually over a few days/weeks their overall appetite decreases/selective feeding occurs. But the cardboard/paper craving is ongoing. Sometimes there can be a massive output of unformed 'cow pat' like fecal/cecal matter, only for the problem to start up all over again. Hence why this episode also makes me think 'cecum issues'- http://forums.rabbitrehome.org.uk/showthread.php?478666-Advice-please-Henry-bun-U-D-5th-jan - ie all related to his 'wetness'.

https://rabbit.org/disorders-of-the-cecum/

Are his fecal poos normal in size and quantity now ?


EC is another possibility and I'd ask the Vet if he/she thinks a 28 day course of Panacur may be a good idea. Lillian would need treatment too

http://www.greendale.co.uk/cuniculi_disease.html

https://www.dechra.co.uk/therapy-ar...cs-antifungals/disease-information/e-cuniculi

Sending lots of vibes xx

Topping up vibes for Henry, Dilly is wet underneath too at the mo so I know where you are coming from.

Sending vibes for you and Henry.
Sometimes we treat symptoms when a positive diagnosis is not possibly, or in reach without stressful (for the bunny too),or expensive tests.

Big hugs Craig; hope you can find a quick solution to Henry's wetness xx

Thanks Jane again for the information in the link. I did look at it last time but didn't feel that was the initial problem. When we went to the vet last week, the diahorrea was my main concern - or what I thought was diahorrea.
Since Henry hasn't had any subsequent episode of this, then I thought we were on top of whatever this is. But Henry's demeanour isn't right and looking at the cecum diagnosis I am much more inclined to feel that this may be what Henry has. And whilst I am stressing out massively now and really scared for Henry, we're going to do our utmost to adapt the present treatment to try to restabilise Henry's gut.
It's not going to be a walk in the park because he's not the most co-operative of patients. We're going to get as much critical care into him as we can several times a day. As much as he dislikes the fibreplex (and spits it out) then we'll just have to keep trying to get it in to help with the balance in his gut. Pellets will be stopped - and that's going to cause major problems with Lillian but we'll have to work round that.
I am hoping that we can start to see some improvement within a few days - small steps but hopefully positive.
I take on board the EC issue. I will get some more panacur and liaise with the vet regarding this.
I'll keep updating the thread and I think you all again, especially Jane for the information.
Kind regards
Craig

Craig can you get your hands on dried willow branches/leaves? My bunnies all had sluggish guts and some of their favorite fiber was willow. I used to buy it from a website in the US that carried them and my bunnies would demolish a 7 inch diameter 'wreath' in about 15 minutes. Did wonders for their output.

https://store.binkybunny.com/willow-wreaths-with-foliage-p42.aspx

This site's forum has been down for a year but I think their store is still open. Not certain these would ship to the UK but perhaps with this info you can find something like this in your region? Galen's Garden perhaps, if they still exist?

Craig 1965 said:

Thanks Jane again for the information in the link. I did look at it last time but didn't feel that was the initial problem. When we went to the vet last week, the diahorrea was my main concern - or what I thought was diahorrea.
Since Henry hasn't had any subsequent episode of this, then I thought we were on top of whatever this is. But Henry's demeanour isn't right and looking at the cecum diagnosis I am much more inclined to feel that this may be what Henry has. And whilst I am stressing out massively now and really scared for Henry, we're going to do our utmost to adapt the present treatment to try to restabilise Henry's gut.
It's not going to be a walk in the park because he's not the most co-operative of patients. We're going to get as much critical care into him as we can several times a day. As much as he dislikes the fibreplex (and spits it out) then we'll just have to keep trying to get it in to help with the balance in his gut. Pellets will be stopped - and that's going to cause major problems with Lillian but we'll have to work round that.
I am hoping that we can start to see some improvement within a few days - small steps but hopefully positive.
I take on board the EC issue. I will get some more panacur and liaise with the vet regarding this.
I'll keep updating the thread and I think you all again, especially Jane for the information.
Kind regards
Craig

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Sorry to hear this Craig

Just a thought, If he's not into the fibreplex there's the protexin pellets

https://www.vetuk.co.uk/dog-supplem...72/protexin-pro-fibre-for-rabbits-800g-p-1178

Idk if it's worth a try as he likes pellets? But they may do a similar job to the fibreplex?

I'm going to get some for Atticus who suffers with chronic gut issues, so I've not personally tried them yet.

Atticus also will eat just about anything (cardboard, paper, plastic) if given the chance. He has megacolon, his cecum is sluggish and doesn't seem to work properly.

Sending lots of vibes for Henry x

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Sending vibes for Henry and hugs for you.x

I'm a massive fan of tree leaves/bark for rabbits tummies, so I would second MinzMum's suggestion of Willow. My OH has been slowly pruning our Weeping Willow and the bunnies have been enjoying stripping the bark off the branches. FibaFirst has a higher fibre content than ordinary pellets, so if they miss their pellets, maybe try a few of them.

Do they eat much hay? Lots of hay would be really beneficial.

ETA Have been looking to see what's available in the UK for sticks. I don't think you'll find any this time of the year as lovely as the ones with leaves, which MM posted (they look really lush!), but this site http://rossrabbits.co.uk/shop/willow---fresh.html looks OK. They also have Raspberry sticks, which would also be good.