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Head tilt returned badly after going away. Starting to get scared..

~ILoveMyBunny~

Alpha Buck
Hey all,
Unfortunately following on from my previous thread where our young Harley was improving well (original thread: http://forums.rabbitrehome.org.uk/s...h-head-tilt-balance-issues-(-U-d-37-Improving!) Harley suddenly relapsed last week. Thursday he was showing a minor tilt, whereas he had barely any trace of one on Tusday at his appointment with the exotic vet (at that time he was removed from metacam but kept on co-trim and fenbendazole) and was about 95% back to himself.
Friday a real tilt developed and we went back to the exotics vet this Tuesday who increased his fenbendazole and changed to small animal sulfatrim (instead of paediatric co-trim that he was on), again at an increased dose. He also put him back on the metacam. Harley's gained 40% of his weight since his initial appointment (and is not in any way overweight, just growing fast!)
Unfortunately the tilt has continued to get worse. Yesterday it got so bad his head is nearly upside down at times. This morning more of the same.
The nystagmus is back in his eye and on Tuesday the vet noted his pupil was giving a poor response to light.
He seems to be managing his balance a bit better this time though is still having some issues. Mainly when he's picked up, putting him back down he always flips on his back and rolls, it's quite horrific to see. He had some balance issues earlier in the week but seems relatively stable now considering his head is flopped so far to one side.
In himself otherwise Harley is completely normal. He still wants to play and run and doesn't understand that he can't have the normal freedom he so desperately wants. He is eating non-stop and loving a fuss, albeit for short periods as he's too eager to get back to play and can't sit still for long.

I don't know what to think or do but seeing him with his head so very severe now is starting to scare me. I just can't believe it, he seemed to be almost over it!
The vet said if he hadn't improved by the next visit (Tuesday) that he'd think about wanting x-rays and bloods. I'm toying with the idea of taking him in sooner to get them done so the exotics vet can review them (the exotics vet do a clinic at our surgery but only do Tuesdays, usually only every two weeks - not sure why there was an extra one this week) but I'm kind of scared to put him under sedation in his state.
I just don't know what to do for the best. It's awful seeing him like this, he's worse now than he was before. The medication isn't doing anything to help him now it seems.
He's fighting this in every way he can, his strength and determination are amazing. If it wasn't for seeing him physically so wrong you'd never know anything had changed. He's a whirlwind of energy, a cheeky, bossy little thing who never stops eating (and I do mean never!).
I just don't know how best to help him :(
 
I'm sorry to read this update on Harley. Sending him millions of vibes and hope that the vet can find what is happening. xx
 
If it is EC causing the symptoms, this isn't unusual. It is often a roller-coaster ride during treatment. Standard treatment is for 28 days, with a full clean on days 21 and 28 of the cycle. The spores are shed in urine, so anything which may have been contaminated should be thoroughly disinfected (eg with 10% bleach solution) or steam cleaned in order to prevent reinfection. Sometimes it needs more than one cycle of treatment.

I had a rabbit with EC. She was perfectly normal one day. At bed time, she hopped through the lounge and by the time she got to the kitchen, she could barely stand. Within hours, her head was firmly twisted round to her shoulder and she was rolling. She was on treatment for many months. She seemed to improve, then one week she would be right back at the beginning again. She did eventually go back outside in the run and only had a minor head tilt to show for the experience. She remained on metacam for about a year, and panacur for several months. The nystagmus improved very rapidly (about 24 hrs) with treatment (can't remember what it was).

If your rabbit is still eating, drinking and seems to be coping OK (which it sounds like he is), I would hang on in there and continue with the treatment. Keeping a diary of symptoms and severity helped me as it showed that there was an overall improvement on a week by week basis, even if there were some quite severe blips at times. It never seemed to bother her, and she went on to live a very normal life.
 
So sorry to hear that Harley has had a relapse. Sending loads of vibes for him and for you xx
 
Sorry I cnat post a lengthy reply til later, but have a look at all the info on here

https://www.dovepress.com/encephali...-manageme-peer-reviewed-fulltext-article-VMRR


Also this thread ( remembering our friend Fellie- RIP)


I have a boy (Bobo) also with EC....luckily his just shows as excessive drinking and weeing (touch wood it doesn't get worse).

When he was first diagnosed, my vets gave him Programme Dog tablets and Levicide
- which seems very odd treatment but that is their preferred treatment. Bobo initially responded very well - but then his wifey-bun died and he regressed and inspite giving him panacur as well, he still remains with EC - we just monitor his quality of life.

However - my vets have obviously had success with the Levicide and Programme dog tablets - and Bobo did initially respond very positively and had he not lost his wife, he may well have beaten EC.

My vet is Mark Rowland, at Trinity Vets - they are exotic pet specialists and have a fabulous reputation. So it may be worth while asking your vet to get in touch with Mark Rowland about this treatment.

By all accounts EC is very hard to get rid of - but hang in there.



Be back later, sending vibes xx
 
Best wishes xx I'll never forget going to one of Twigs' forage days and seeing one of the quite bad head-tilt bunnies binkying in the garden! The OH was intrigued that little bunny didn't care it didn't look right, it was determined to have a great life. I hope you can get some improvement for Harley's QOL xx
 
Having been through head tilt with my bridge bun Teddy I know how much of a roller-coaster it can be. It sounds like you're doing all the right things, I would request the blood tests if you can to try and find out if it's EC or an infection. All the best for you and Hatley, I hope he makes an improvement soon.
 
Hey all, sorry for a late reply. Thank you all so much for your replies. Shimmer and Jane, thank you so much for the advice, positive experience and link. They've all been very helpful. I've been looking at the information in the link you sent Jane, it's very informative and very helpful. Thank you. And thank you Shimmer for sharing your experience, it's nice to know there's still hope.
Harley is booked in with the exotics specialist again tomorrow. Sadly there's been no improvement at the moment.
It's a very hard situation because in his pen he's managing okay. He has the odd stumble but he's generally quite happy and playful. He was binkying as best he could a lot yesterday, the poor boy. He's such a fighter. Had a few head flicks and small binky-attempts today too.
What's hard is giving him his meds, he rolls uncontrolably now and his whole body is twisted almost to the point of breaking. It's terrifying and heartbreaking to see. He gets into an unending cycle and the only thing you can do is try to intercept a roll and stabilize him. It's absolutely awful.
I'm terrified of him breaking a leg or his back with his own force as he twists so badly. Weirdly he only does this out of his pen, once he's back in he may roll once but finds it relatively easy to right himself after that.
The only way to give him meds is to 'burrito' him with a towel but even that is hard the way he twists and rolls.
Seeing him like that makes you second guess yourself, but then for the rest of the day he's happy and playful and eats well (though the last two days he's not been as greedy as usual which is concerning). It's so confusing and so, so hard to do what's right for him.
I don't want to be selfish, I don't want him to suffer if there's no hope of recovery. But he still seems to be fighting, I don't want to give up on him. He's so young.
It's an impossible position and trying to know what the right thing is is so hard.
I'm almost 100% certain they will do (or book him in for) an x-ray tomorrow and even that is terrifying, not just because of the sedative anymore but I seem to be the only one who can somewhat 'control' his twisting. I'm scared the vets/nurses won't fully understand just how out of control he can get when he's picked up. He could so easily break his own back. I'm so terrified of something happening to him.

Sorry to ramble on. It's been a difficult day and he had a bad fall earlier as he launched himself from my Mum's arms. It's the hardest thing imaginable to see him like that.
He's the sweetest boy with such a strong personality. He's one of the toughest bunnies I've known. I just wish I could do something to help him when he rolls as he gets so distressed :(
 
Hey all, sorry for a late reply. Thank you all so much for your replies. Shimmer and Jane, thank you so much for the advice, positive experience and link. They've all been very helpful. I've been looking at the information in the link you sent Jane, it's very informative and very helpful. Thank you. And thank you Shimmer for sharing your experience, it's nice to know there's still hope.
Harley is booked in with the exotics specialist again tomorrow. Sadly there's been no improvement at the moment.
It's a very hard situation because in his pen he's managing okay. He has the odd stumble but he's generally quite happy and playful. He was binkying as best he could a lot yesterday, the poor boy. He's such a fighter. Had a few head flicks and small binky-attempts today too.
What's hard is giving him his meds, he rolls uncontrolably now and his whole body is twisted almost to the point of breaking. It's terrifying and heartbreaking to see. He gets into an unending cycle and the only thing you can do is try to intercept a roll and stabilize him. It's absolutely awful.
I'm terrified of him breaking a leg or his back with his own force as he twists so badly. Weirdly he only does this out of his pen, once he's back in he may roll once but finds it relatively easy to right himself after that.
The only way to give him meds is to 'burrito' him with a towel but even that is hard the way he twists and rolls.
Seeing him like that makes you second guess yourself, but then for the rest of the day he's happy and playful and eats well (though the last two days he's not been as greedy as usual which is concerning). It's so confusing and so, so hard to do what's right for him.
I don't want to be selfish, I don't want him to suffer if there's no hope of recovery. But he still seems to be fighting, I don't want to give up on him. He's so young.
It's an impossible position and trying to know what the right thing is is so hard.
I'm almost 100% certain they will do (or book him in for) an x-ray tomorrow and even that is terrifying, not just because of the sedative anymore but I seem to be the only one who can somewhat 'control' his twisting. I'm scared the vets/nurses won't fully understand just how out of control he can get when he's picked up. He could so easily break his own back. I'm so terrified of something happening to him.

Sorry to ramble on. It's been a difficult day and he had a bad fall earlier as he launched himself from my Mum's arms. It's the hardest thing imaginable to see him like that.
He's the sweetest boy with such a strong personality. He's one of the toughest bunnies I've known. I just wish I could do something to help him when he rolls as he gets so distressed :(

Firstly, he is still in the very early days of his illness. The rolling episodes can continue for WEEKS. They are almost always worse when Bunny is out of his usual environment or stressed in any way (by being picked up for example). Sometimes it helps if you cover Bunny's eyes as you carry him. BUT the episodes can eventually fully resolve. There is no guarantee and not all Rabbits have the psychological strength to cope -eg they will stop eating.

For some cases it is 'right' to keep going with aggressive treatment for the many weeks it can take to see some improvement, for others it is 'right' to let them go very early on.

Can you take a video of him during a 'good' episode when he's in his pen, moving about, eating etc. The Vet will only get part of the picture from seeing him at the surgery as he will be stressed and far more likely to roll etc. Also, explain fully to the Vet that anyone who handles him needs to be mindful of the fact that it'll set him in a spin and that he will need the utmost care when being picked up.

As you are seeing an Exotics Vet hopefully he/she will be well aware of the additional precautions that will be needed whilst Harley is with them, personally I would expect a VN/ Nursing Assistant to be with him at all times

Sending millions of vibes for him today xx
 
Agree with everything Jack's-Jane said, head tilt can be a long road to recovery and sometimes they get worse before they get better. Definitely try to get a video of him when he's at his best as it's helpful for the vet to see, my boy used to literally play dead at the vets so I has to prove what he was really like as they initially thought he was like that all the time. With his meds, have you tried mixing them with some baby food and giving them that way? Some rabbits like it and it can be a much less painful experience for everyone if you can persuade him to take it that way. Sending lots of vibes for you and Harley, I know how traumatic it can be seeing a bun when they're in the grips of head tilt and can't stop rolling, it can get better or be controlled with the right treatment xx

Sent from my G3121 using Tapatalk
 
Thank you both, I read your replies on the way to the vet this morning and it was encouraging as the last day or so has been challenging. I certainly did not want to give up on Harley buts seeing him like that was making me second guess myself.
Unfortunately I wasn't able to get video before hand as I read the replies too late but I will keep that in mind for next time if there's no improvement. It's a brilliant idea.
The vet was as always amazing, he's done an x-ray which isn't showing any problems and a blood test. The bloods should take about 10 days to come back so we may have a 'confirmation' (as far as is possible) that it's (likely) EC then and a recheck in two weeks.
Harley's doing amazing considering all he's been through. While in the queue to pay I saw him munching on a fibafirst (having not long come around from sedation!) and that gave me a lot of hope because I can see how determinted this little bun is. He's such a fighter.
I'd brought some treats up with me which he had on the way home (dandelion, grass, a blackberry etc - he had all except the flower of the dandelion!)
He's continued to eat since he got in, mostly hay but he took a blueberry from me too.
If anyone's going to be able to beat this then it's him. He's such a strong boy.
I guess it's just a matter of waiting now and continuing meds.
Does anyone have any tips with rolling or am I already doing everything I can to stop it? I burrito him tight but he still rolls when I release him or before I can even wrap it. He doesn't roll in his pen and gets around fairly okay in there.
I feel so fortunate that we have such amazing vets and such amazing exotics specialists. They're truly wonderful and I have full confidence they're doing everything possible for him. I can't imagine where we'd be now if not for them - as well as the support and help of everyone on here!

Edit: Oh, regarding mixing with baby food yes, I've done it with banana and apple puree. He knows.
They always know :roll:
 
Thank you both, I read your replies on the way to the vet this morning and it was encouraging as the last day or so has been challenging. I certainly did not want to give up on Harley buts seeing him like that was making me second guess myself.
Unfortunately I wasn't able to get video before hand as I read the replies too late but I will keep that in mind for next time if there's no improvement. It's a brilliant idea.
The vet was as always amazing, he's done an x-ray which isn't showing any problems and a blood test. The bloods should take about 10 days to come back so we may have a 'confirmation' (as far as is possible) that it's (likely) EC then and a recheck in two weeks.
Harley's doing amazing considering all he's been through. While in the queue to pay I saw him munching on a fibafirst (having not long come around from sedation!) and that gave me a lot of hope because I can see how determinted this little bun is. He's such a fighter.
I'd brought some treats up with me which he had on the way home (dandelion, grass, a blackberry etc - he had all except the flower of the dandelion!)
He's continued to eat since he got in, mostly hay but he took a blueberry from me too.
If anyone's going to be able to beat this then it's him. He's such a strong boy.
I guess it's just a matter of waiting now and continuing meds.
Does anyone have any tips with rolling or am I already doing everything I can to stop it? I burrito him tight but he still rolls when I release him or before I can even wrap it. He doesn't roll in his pen and gets around fairly okay in there.
I feel so fortunate that we have such amazing vets and such amazing exotics specialists. They're truly wonderful and I have full confidence they're doing everything possible for him. I can't imagine where we'd be now if not for them - as well as the support and help of everyone on here!

Edit: Oh, regarding mixing with baby food yes, I've done it with banana and apple puree. He knows.
They always know :roll:

It sounds as though it is EC then and whilst he may never fully recover there is every chance that the severe symptoms he is currently exhibiting will resolve.

With regards to his rolling when you have to medicate him. Can you devise a way to do it whilst he is still on the ground in his pen. Avoiding picking him up and removing him from his 'home' may reduce the stress and consequently reduce the rolling.

This video may give you a few tips

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qfROVhKTMxI
 
Thank you both, I read your replies on the way to the vet this morning and it was encouraging as the last day or so has been challenging. I certainly did not want to give up on Harley buts seeing him like that was making me second guess myself.
Unfortunately I wasn't able to get video before hand as I read the replies too late but I will keep that in mind for next time if there's no improvement. It's a brilliant idea.
The vet was as always amazing, he's done an x-ray which isn't showing any problems and a blood test. The bloods should take about 10 days to come back so we may have a 'confirmation' (as far as is possible) that it's (likely) EC then and a recheck in two weeks.
Harley's doing amazing considering all he's been through. While in the queue to pay I saw him munching on a fibafirst (having not long come around from sedation!) and that gave me a lot of hope because I can see how determinted this little bun is. He's such a fighter.
I'd brought some treats up with me which he had on the way home (dandelion, grass, a blackberry etc - he had all except the flower of the dandelion!)
He's continued to eat since he got in, mostly hay but he took a blueberry from me too.
If anyone's going to be able to beat this then it's him. He's such a strong boy.
I guess it's just a matter of waiting now and continuing meds.
Does anyone have any tips with rolling or am I already doing everything I can to stop it? I burrito him tight but he still rolls when I release him or before I can even wrap it. He doesn't roll in his pen and gets around fairly okay in there.
I feel so fortunate that we have such amazing vets and such amazing exotics specialists. They're truly wonderful and I have full confidence they're doing everything possible for him. I can't imagine where we'd be now if not for them - as well as the support and help of everyone on here!

Edit: Oh, regarding mixing with baby food yes, I've done it with banana and apple puree. He knows.
They always know :roll:
Sounds like he's determined to fight this! One thing I read when dealing with head tilt was that we humans tend to find it more distressing than the rabbits themselves do. I don't know how true that is but I guess they do live in the present and all he knows is that his world is a little bit wonky right now.

In terms of trying to avoid the rolling when you put him down, I used to kneel on the floor and put my boy between my knees when I put him down so that he could find his feet safely. I'd also keep both hands on him until I was sure he was ok. Didn't always work as sometimes he would wriggle free and then roll but worth a try. I would avoid carrying him as much as possible, but when I did have to, I'd make sure his upward facing eye was away from me so he had a better idea of where he was (if that makes sense).

Sent from my G3121 using Tapatalk
 
I’ve not had experience of an EC bunny but you and your vets are doing everything possible for him :love: sending lots of vibes. For mixing meds with food, they always seem to suss it out when mixed with banana but I experimented with baby foods and I’ve found Frosty loves the apple carrot and parsnip Aldi mamia pouch baby food and will eat some meds’ mixed in that.
 
Can't add anymore advice, as I've no experience of EC, but just wanted to send lots of vibes for Harley, he certainly is a little fighter bless him xxx
 
My first bunny had EC, and it was a hard experience, as many others have mentioned. Sending you lots of love, as I know how challenging it is. You’ve got some v good advice on this thread. I’d also say all your anxieties and worries are very normal x
 
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Some of us have had success with even the dreaded baytril on a fenugreek crunchie, so if the meds will work on those it might be worth a try! Best wishes xx
 
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