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Spaying, cancer, and risk

I would like to create an in-depth thread on an issue that I cannot find much information on anywhere: to spay or not to spay female rabbits. I have found a similar thread, but the last reply was from years ago, so I want my thread to be visible. Also, my questions are more specific. Let me ephasise that if I knew a reliable vet who had a verifiable success rate with spaying and a high survival rates of the does, I would not hesitate at all:

First, what I've been reading for years:

1) Spaying a doe is necessary, otherwise, risk of cancer increases; even moreso with the rabbit's age (to 80% and up)

2) Spaying should be done as soon as possible, as the risk of something going wrong increases in older does

3) The risk of a doe surviving spaying--at least where I am, and several vets I have contacted have told me this--less than 30%
 
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Another thought has occured to me: I have read that feeding rabbits with pellets is not advisable, as they can become obese, plus, who knows exactly what's in there, how they're made? Nobody but the companies that massively produce these pellets, and good luck trying to get a sincere answer from them. It's nothing new that most companies are interested in profit more than the welfare of the people who use their products for themselves or their pets. So there is always the possibility that pellets might contribute to some forms of cancer (I can't back this up, but I have heard it before, and it hasn't been disproved yet, either). Now, I try not to feed Liz too many pellets, however, she does really love them more than any vegetables that she sometimes leaves to rot in the corner. In the spring and summer, I keep it to a minimum, as a treat. In the autumn/winter, however, as I've got no garden, and few vegetables are available that haven't been chemically altered, I have no other choice to rely mainly on pellets as a source of sustenance fo Liz. Just thought it might not be wise to state it is might not only be not spaying that causes cancer. I am not saying anything is true or not true. I am only rallying for more critical thinking and research about things that matter most to us.
 
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i have no expert advise to offer, but my unspayed doe died from cancer a few months ago (most likely due to not being spayed), aged 6 or 7 years. i really wish i had got her spayed but i didn't because her male partner had been neutered.
i wasn't so rabbit savvy when i got her. the rescue centre lady did mention it was a risk not spaying but didn't seem massively concerned.

judging by the spaying survival rates you mention though it is a tough call. however the survival rates you mention do surprise me..... she had a GA 6 months previously for tooth work. obviously i was very worried but she was fine.
personally, if i get another doe, i will be spaying.

re: pellets, i only have 1 bun atm but all my buns have been free range all day long & i only feed a very small amount of pellets, just to encourage going into the shed at night.
 
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After perusing the older thread on a similar issue, and having read several accounts of those who work in the veterinary profession, I am inclined to believe that there is something to this uterine cancer thing. However,the issue remains. If you live--as I do--somewhere where only 2 vets that are supposed to be experts on rabbits are available, and only one of these is available, and this one says that there is a high chance that your rabbit will not survive the operation, and based on my previous negative experiences with vets--what to do?
 
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Welcome to the forum :wave: I think it's going to be a very difficult decision for you and whilst we can offer opinions on what we would do here, where with a bit of research it's possible to find a good rabbit-savvy vet, it sounds as though it's going to be a more difficult decision for you.

I would always spay a doe, unless there were good, health reasons to suggest that might not be sensible for a particular rabbit.

I really can't imagine how I would come to a decision based on such low survival rates though.

Best wishes for both you and your doe. She sounds as though she is very much loved :love:
 
^^ I was about to say that too, a survival of 30% sounds like utter ... if I am honest. it seems like they're perhaps not very experienced at all, and just trying to scare owners.

the cancer risk in does is heavily argued but, most sources do agree that around 3 years old, the risk is about 50% (so 50% of does will have uterine cancer). some also state that once they reach 6 years old it jumps to around 80%. its a huge risk and such a short life span considering rabbits can live for 8, 10 years, going on 10 that's almost half of their life cut short due to uterine cancer.

of course some rabbits may never get it but.. I suppose its down to you and if you want to take that risk that their life could be shorter, or take the risk to remove their uterus and have a long life.

its not just about the cancer risk but about behavioural problems. rabbits don't have an 'aw I want to have kids!', they breed to ensure the next generations and are a slave to their hormones. many female rabbits are passed around pillar to post due to behavioural issues - being grumpy, aggressive, territorial. all it is is hormones and if they had been spayed, they would have been saved this trouble of being put up as an 'aggressive' rabbit. females are often considered worse than males, they're harder to bond with another rabbit (so they spend their life alone and lonely), and can even fight with other rabbits (leaving them to be alone and lonely). its not just the risk of cancer but their overall health.

I would personally argue a rabbit is far happier without their reproductive organs, they're no longer a slave to their hormones and have that evolutional need to have children, to ensure their species survive. I know I wouldn't want to go through my life wanting, being frustrated, but never able to have kids, and being so extremely grumpy due to hormonal. I can only imagine it being like on your period hormones for all of your life.

it is true that rabbits do slightly worse under anaesthetics than other animals, but with a good rabbit savvy vet the risk is really minimal. my vet personally instantly syringe feeds afterwards to keep their stomach moving and puts an IV in in case of any issues. there are hundreds of rabbits spayed every day with no issues, but you usually only hear about the bad (a bit like plane crashes), so it feels disproportionate.

I would always spay a doe (or neuter a buck) due to the immense amount of benefits there is, prolonging their life span and helping them to be 'happier' so to speak. the only time I wouldn't was if there was a serious health risk, such as heart issues, that could be fatal.

I've had my bunnies put out multiple times for procedures and, I've never honestly had an issue. Luna was quite unwell after her spay but I also do not feel I had the most caring vet either at the time. since swapping, Luna has bounced back better.

its personal opinion, I'd always go for it, others don't. but I don't see the benefit of keeping a rabbits reproductive organs if I'm never going to breed them.
 
I'd always spay... But I don't like those odds.. Honestly if those were the odds, I'd probably not do it.. People may not agree but.. I wouldn't want someone operating on my animal that said there was only a 30% survival rate either(for something like a spay where that isn't the case everywhere)... I'd look everywhere first before deciding against it.. In the UK only health reasons would stop me spaying a doe though. I think spaying is very important.

If a lump was found.. I'd be more likely to try it.. Because at that point its just a waiting game anyway..(if the vet thinks the lump is cancer)

Hate thinking about things like this, but that's the reality the way I see it. Its terrible that rabbits care is so lacking in some places :(


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@Omi: Thanks! Oh, I agree with spaying/neutering. Rabbits are meant to reproduce rapidly; if they don't, and are not spayed (because this affects mostly females), the cells multiply too rapidly and cancer risk increases (or something like that; I read what vets explained). I have no doubt not spaying contributes to a higher cancer risk, but 80%? From what I've read, these statistics come from a study conducted in the 40s (!!!), so it was probably carried out on rabbits fed with the worst industrial fodder; rabbits meant for animal testing/slaughter/fur/research. I don't think those were rabbits that were given any chance to be properly taken care of, so no wonder the cancer risks came up so high. I would love a link to a more recent research.
 
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Can you find good vets only in larger urban areas or even in the smaller places in the UK? Vets I speak of -are- from the capital. The ones from rural areas only tend to cattle. Personally, I am gobsmacked that technology is advancing at such a rapid rate, while education and awareness of animals not cats or dogs are still so low.
 
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@TheBee: The nightmare place Melania wed Trump to escape from. Honestly, I completely understand her. It's either work or marriage to move away from here, and marriage is easier. I'm not into marriage, but I know many, many people from here who married Americans just to get away from here (and usually divorced soon after). The healthcare for people as well as animals here-----either you have connections and money, or you're on your own. So much for human/animal rights.

@binkyCodie: I would personally argue a rabbit is far happier without their reproductive organs, they're no longer a slave to their hormones and have that evolutional need to have children, to ensure their species survive. I know I wouldn't want to go through my life wanting, being frustrated, but never able to have kids, and being so extremely grumpy due to hormonal. I can only imagine it being like on your period hormones for all of your life.

I agree! The fact is, rabbits are the fourth most popular pet in the UK now (just of curiosity...dogs probably 1, cats 2.....what's 3? Ferrets? Parrots? Tigers? :p), which means they are meant by many now to enjoy long, happy lives. I know from myself and other people about how depression can deteriorate to a level where one loses one's will to live, but I have never, ever seen a rabbit, even when very ill, not fighting for their life. I admire that joy for living, although I do believe I treat Livvy well enough to deserve to see a binky every now and then...but she is the rare never-binkies bunny (some say they do it when you're not looking, but I'm almost always here, and no luck). But yes, without threats (Though you can't imagine how many horror stories I hear here from people who say they used to have rabbits and ''didn't think the neighbour's dog would hurt them if they ran around in the garden....but then...''), being taken good care of, they can lead ''artifically'' long lives (I really wonder if any rabbit in the wild has ever survived past 3), and ought to be spayed and neutered for all the above-mentioned reasons. Livvy is very, very maternal, so when I still had a boy bun around (had to separate him from the other boys; he had no aggression in him at all. Just stood in the corner....well, like a frightened rabbit), I did allow her to have a litter. She was a perfect mother. I now regret not keeping any of her little ones, but at the time I was lucky enough to find employment for awhile, and I could not take care of all of them, so I found them (I hope) happy homes. I now wish I had kept at least one of her daughters with her (though they were rowdy and wild, and her sons were sweet and cuddly, even when very small); that's why I'm thinking of getting her a companion. I don't think she's a loner rabbit at all, and I don't think I'm enough, as much as she truly likes me. I agree about the spaying 100%, but yes, the vet said if young, there is a 30% mortality rate; if older, she said the risk is very high and ''it's on you to decide''. If this was a vet who had operated successfully on older rabbits before, I would not hesitate, but here, they often assign vet students to perform these surgeries, and these students have killed our rabbits and our dogs before, so I can't risk that. If I get her a young companion, though, I will spay that one. Again, the 30% statistics are only for this country (so the vet said). I have no doubt in the UK and USA, the situation is better, simply because having rabbits as pets is not as uncommon as it apparently is here. Love your signature, btw. And tell Luna Livvy and I say hi :)

@Graciee: Exactly. I don't trust a vet who doesn't reassure me they will do all they can to minimise risks, and I didn't like this response. I can't afford them sending the lump samples to the lab; the prices here easily amount to over a 1000 pounds just for a check up and sending samples to the vet, not to mention they handle them very, very roughly. I cried in their office more than once because they treated them like furniture, not living, feeling creatures. They just hold them by the ears. I say ''no, you can't do that'', and they shrug ''no, it's ok''. The only thing I can do is to decide never to return to such a vet, but that leaves me with no other options. I have had one positive experience with a vet, but not for neutering/spaying. One of our dear boys had fallen, and broken his hind leg and all his teeth. He held him by the ears; I hated that, but did chip off his broken teeth. He was also honest with me. He actually told me: ''You can pay for an operation for us to fix his broken bones, but you'll just waste your money, because we probably can't do that successfully.'' I just let him heal on his own, and thankfully, he did. We also had to mix fruit and veggies and only feed him ''baby food'' for months. Can you imagine this is a positive experience for me? 99% of the other horror vet experiences I won't tell you, because I don't want to go through the trauma again.You even have pet insurance in the UK, no? Nobody's ever heard of anything like that here. I would do that immediately to pay for vet expenses if I could.

Where are you all from? Can you find good vets only in larger urban areas or even in the smaller places in the UK? Vets I speak of -are- from the capital. The ones from rural areas only tend to cattle. Personally, I am gobsmacked that technology is advancing at such a rapid rate, while education and awareness of animals not cats or dogs are still so low. I wish there was a rabbit celebrity spokesperson out there whom the masses would listen to. Wouldn't that be wonderful? People listen to people with influence, so that would be wonderful, in my opinion. I know there are famous people advocating for cats and dogs, but I've never heard of one advocating for rabbit welfare. Not to mention politicians, where--at least here--their concern for environmental and animal welfare is zero.
PS: Glamorous-looking bun gents/ladies you have on display there :)
Gosh never had a vet pick any of mine up by their ears... :/ I had a vet scruff one of mine once... That didn't end very well for the vet involved in that.. [emoji38] I'm not really interested if someone else thinks that is an appropriate way to hold a rabbit.. They're my rabbits.. And they won't be held that way. End of.

I'm from London but we have rabbit savvy vets kinda scattered all over.. I wish there was many many more because its still hard to get good treatment.. But compared to what you're describing I should be so grateful with what we have here [emoji51] where are you from? Sorry if you mentioned it and I missed it!

We do have pet insurance here yes, although only recently has it been a more common thing for rabbits from what I can see. I don't have insurance for my 4 either.

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I'm not really interested if someone else thinks that is an appropriate way to hold a rabbit.. They're my rabbits.. And they won't be held that way. End of.

This. Any respectable vet ought to respect your wishes, no matter what they think is appropriate. To hold a rabbit by the ears is tantamout to holding a cat by its tail, except rabbits are not always as immediately retributive as cats are if you try that, especially if they're of the more gentle character.
 
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