Vibes and advice for Fizzgig please- Dental issues

Hi all

Fizzgig had a dental a week ago. Prior to going in, she was not showing any reduction in eating hay or anything. I only got concerned because she was making an odd movement in her jaw. It turns out she had an abscess caused by a spur, that was in turn causing uneven growth in her molars and her tooth roots are overgrowing in to her maxilla. She did not have weepy eyes or any nasal discharge prior to the dental. Since the dental she has been very reluctant to eat hay. She had a check up yesterday and vet has upped her pain meds to 0.8 ml metacam 2x daily and she's on a course of oral antibiotic paste to address the abscess. The abscess itself is looking okay. Vet thinks the thing that's still causing her the pain is the tooth roots which she can't do much about. She will pick at grass, is more enthusiastic about dandelion and greens etc, she will reluctantly eat dried grass treats but will still wolf down things like rabbit pellets, meadow loops and Liz's oaticakes.

Is there anything I can do to encourage her to eat hay?

Cheers

Jo

Does she eat dried strawberry or apple leaves. I'm not sure but I think I read somewhere that this type of forage encourages the same tooth grinding action as hay.

What hay would she normally eat?

Its strange when they go in for a dental on vague symptoms or a hunch, come round from GA fine but then decline in their recovery period. I had similar with my girl Boo on her last dental. It took 10 days post dental before she ate hay. Once she got going there was no stopping her. That said I know tooth root problems can affect ability to eat hay & maybe its the case with your bun. In the meantime i'd offer loads of grass, dandelions, plantain is particularly good for tooth wear(as is grass). Boo craved loads of twigs & ate lots of forage. Apple leaves & twigs were a favourite . I've not heard of an oral anti biotic paste. I hope it works & she is feeling better soon

Thanks both. They have farm bales of hay . Neither of them are usually fussy when it comes to hay. The grass in our garden is about a metre high now so quite stalky. I'll have a look locally for some plantain. I haven't specifically tried her with dried strawberry or apple leaves because I don't have access to them.

Kittykat23uk said:

Hi all

Fizzgig had a dental a week ago. Prior to going in, she was not showing any reduction in eating hay or anything. I only got concerned because she was making an odd movement in her jaw. It turns out she had an abscess caused by a spur, that was in turn causing uneven growth in her molars and her tooth roots are overgrowing in to her maxilla. She did not have weepy eyes or any nasal discharge prior to the dental. Since the dental she has been very reluctant to eat hay. She had a check up yesterday and vet has upped her pain meds to 0.8 ml metacam 2x daily and she's on a course of oral antibiotic paste to address the abscess. The abscess itself is looking okay. Vet thinks the thing that's still causing her the pain is the tooth roots which she can't do much about. She will pick at grass, is more enthusiastic about dandelion and greens etc, she will reluctantly eat dried grass treats but will still wolf down things like rabbit pellets, meadow loops and Liz's oaticakes.

Is there anything I can do to encourage her to eat hay?

Cheers

Jo

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Hello

As your Vet no doubt explained elongated tooth roots are a chronic condition and sadly they are usually painful too. The Dental itself will have irritated all the tooth root nerves and post Dental pain can be severe and last for several days. So it's good that the Vet has increased the dose of Metacam. Is Fizzgig also on Ranitidine (Zantac) ? I ask as Metacam is a non steroidal anti inflammatory and this group of analgesics can cause gastric ulceration. Whilst Rabbits are less prone to this adverse side effect than other species (a Rabbit's stomach is always more acidic than that of other species ) when given orally at a high dose rate for several days many Rabbit Savvy Vets advise giving Ranitidine too to protect the stomach, Ranitidine being a type of anti GI ulcer drug.

With regards to the hay eating. It may be that eating hay is more painful for Fizzgig atm, the jaw action required to chew hay being rotational as opposed to the up-and-down chomping that other hard foods require. Whilst this rotational jaw action and consequent dental attrition is what is needed to prevent molar crown elongation/spurring, a Rabbit with TRE may just find it to be too painful- hence a reduction of hay eating. Hopefully after a few more days Fizzgig may start to try to eat hay again. As others have suggested Fizzgig may feel able to eat some fresh grass, weeds etc .

These links may be useful to take a look at as Fizzgig is a 'Dental Bunny'. I really hope that he will be feeling better soon .

http://www.medirabbit.com/EN/Dental_diseases/Differential/Rabbit_dentistry.pdf

https://www.vetstream.com/treat/lapis/freeform/dental-malocclusion-overgrowth

http://wildpro.twycrosszoo.org/S/00dis/Miscellaneous/AcquiredMolarAbnRabbits.htm

http://www.ivis.org/proceedings/navc/2006/SAE/615.pdf?LA=1

https://avianandexoticvets.com/management-of-dental-abscesses-in-rabbits/

http://www.medirabbit.com/Radiography/anatomical_lines.pdf

https://www.harcourt-brown.co.uk/me...urse/3-complications-of-dental-procedures.pdf

Hi Jane , thanks for the above. Fizzgig is not currently on ranitidine. She is definitely able to eat dandelions.

No advice, but sending vibes x

Kittykat23uk said:

Hi Jane , thanks for the above. Fizzgig is not currently on ranitidine. She is definitely able to eat dandelions.

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Personally I'd have a word with the Vet about the Ranitidine. If Fizzgig's tummy gets sore that will have a major impact on her willingness to eat.

Maybe you could mix up some dandelions/fresh grass. Always assuming she is used to eating fresh grass. If not I am sure you know to be careful to only feed a small amount and chose the rough, less lush type. Grass is very rich atm so too much can cause bloat.

What about Readigrass ? Have you tried her on that. Also, a dandelion forage I give my Rabbits is very fibrous and may be worth a go

https://www.zooplus.co.uk/shop/small_pets/snacks_supplements/natural_plant_snacks/herbs/301238

There are also a lot of dried forages available from Galens Garden, although it can be a tad pricey

https://galensgarden.co.uk/shop/

I think I may have a bit of ranitidine left from when sprocket last had bloat. I'll ask the vet and see what they say. She is used to eating grass and I've been picking some to put in their trays as well as giving them both some run time on grass.

I am hesitant to give her readigrass as it can set sprocket's stomach off so i'd have to give it separately if I do get some. Is it more palatable than fresh grass?

Kittykat23uk said:

I think I may have a bit of ranitidine left from when sprocket last had bloat. I'll ask the vet and see what they say. She is used to eating grass and I've been picking some to put in their trays as well as giving them both some run time on grass.

I am hesitant to give her readigrass as it can set sprocket's stomach off so i'd have to give it separately if I do get some. Is it more palatable than fresh grass?

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Not necessarily, but it is sometimes easier for Dental Bunnies to eat it x

I have two dental bunnies and they often take a couple weeks after their dental to eat normally, and that is without any ulcers or infections.
Jane has given you lots of wonderful advice and useful links to information, so I cannot add anything more in regards to care/treatment.
Allow me to add some positive vibes for your special bunny.

Thanks everyone.

Hope everything gets better. X

Thank you. She's still struggling with hay but is nibbling grass and managing better with a range of garden weeds/wildflowers like golden rod etc

I guess I am struggling to work out how much I should give her of the things I know she can eat vs encouraging her to eat hay and grass. I have mixed in the weeds with the hay and grass in their litter trays. I have another appointment with the vet tomorrow where I will ask about giving her some ranitidine.

Kittykat23uk said:

Thank you. She's still struggling with hay but is nibbling grass and managing better with a range of garden weeds/wildflowers like golden rod etc

I guess I am struggling to work out how much I should give her of the things I know she can eat vs encouraging her to eat hay and grass. I have mixed in the weeds with the hay and grass in their litter trays. I have another appointment with the vet tomorrow where I will ask about giving her some ranitidine.

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For now I would let her eat what she is able to eat. Hay may never be big on the menu going forward, but grass is just as good and the most important thing at this stage is that she is eating enough to keep her GI tract ticking over.

Thanks Jane. She's definitely eating with more enthusiasm now, especially grass which is a good sign.

It is good to know she is eating better. Sending more positive vibes.

Hi all. Well we've been giving Fizzgig daily metacam and ranitidine since her dental in May and this past weekend I noticed she has a weepy eye. We took her to the vet on Tuesday and she couldn't see anything obviously wrong with her teeth beyond the existing chronic issues of the slightly elongated crowns and we know she has elongated roots and a pocket where she's had a tooth removed in the past, she couldn't see any spurs or abscess. She gave us two options, to flush the tear duct under local anaesthetic or to give her a GA and investigate her teeth. As she is eating well and given that she took nearly 2 weeks to recover from her last dental I was reluctant to put her under so we have gone for the first option. The vet advised the procedure went quite well and pointed out a lump where she said the tear duct was a bit swollen from the liquid draining. She's to go back in a week for a check up. meanwhile we have some drops to put in her eye twice a day. We also can't get hold of anymore ranitidine at present as it seems to have been recalled owing to safety issues. How soon should I hope to see some improvement in her eye?

Kittykat23uk said:

Hi all. Well we've been giving Fizzgig daily metacam and ranitidine since her dental in May and this past weekend I noticed she has a weepy eye. We took her to the vet on Tuesday and she couldn't see anything obviously wrong with her teeth beyond the existing chronic issues of the slightly elongated crowns and we know she has elongated roots and a pocket where she's had a tooth removed in the past, she couldn't see any spurs or abscess. She gave us two options, to flush the tear duct under local anaesthetic or to give her a GA and investigate her teeth. As she is eating well and given that she took nearly 2 weeks to recover from her last dental I was reluctant to put her under so we have gone for the first option. The vet advised the procedure went quite well and pointed out a lump where she said the tear duct was a bit swollen from the liquid draining. She's to go back in a week for a check up. meanwhile we have some drops to put in her eye twice a day. We also can't get hold of anymore ranitidine at present as it seems to have been recalled owing to safety issues. How soon should I hope to see some improvement in her eye?

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Hello

Any active infection in her tear duct should respond (start to improve) to abx treatment within a few days, BUT if her tooth root elongation has progressed (which is often the case in chronic Dental Disease) then she may always have a weepy eye (Dacryocystitis) which will need long term management.

http://wildpro.twycrosszoo.org/S/00dis/Miscellaneous/DacrocystitisRabbit.htm


Sending vibes xx

I had a few bunnies with tear duct issues and they were all different. One improved almost immediately, even without drops; the second had eye drops for inflammation and improved though still had some tearing; the vet was not able to complete the flush on the third because it had an obstruction. All lived good lives with a bit of support.
Sending vibes your bunny will be tear free very soon.