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Protein levels in forage help

Mervinius

Mama Doe
Hello.

So I've been monitoring Pip and she has been pulling a lot more of her fur recently, which is why we had to go the vets the other day as it gave her gas.

It does seem to be linked to her moult cycle, which the vet agreed with. We don't know why, but she insists on pulling it out under her chin/chest. Also she won't let us groom there.

The only thing that has changed is I bought them some alfalfa nibbles.

Which I know has a higher protein level. I'm guessing too much protein would cause her to moult more or maybe quicker?

Does anyone know if any forage has a high protein and I could try eliminating?
Obviously going to stop with the alfalfa and see if that improves.

I know we can't stop her moulting, but I can hopefully try not to aggravate the issue.
 
I would have thought that increased protein would result in a quicker moult, which actually might be beneficial for Pip. Also, if the alfalfa was given as a treat and not as the main hay, the amount of increased protein eaten per day would be quite small and so possibly insignificant. If you have a look at the nutritional information on the packet of the alfalfa nibbles, it should list the amount of protein and so you could assess whether or not it would have had an impact. You could do the same with the nutritional information on the forage that you regularly feed. My feeling is that the amount of protein in most items of common forage is quite small.
 
Hello.

So I've been monitoring Pip and she has been pulling a lot more of her fur recently, which is why we had to go the vets the other day as it gave her gas.

It does seem to be linked to her moult cycle, which the vet agreed with. We don't know why, but she insists on pulling it out under her chin/chest. Also she won't let us groom there.

The only thing that has changed is I bought them some alfalfa nibbles.

Which I know has a higher protein level. I'm guessing too much protein would cause her to moult more or maybe quicker?

Does anyone know if any forage has a high protein and I could try eliminating?
Obviously going to stop with the alfalfa and see if that improves.

I know we can't stop her moulting, but I can hopefully try not to aggravate the issue.



Alfalfa is well known for accelerating a moult, and to a point is a good thing. I find that these smaller bunnies need a certain amount of extra fuel during their moulting period in order to actually complete the moult.

https://www.rabbitsonline.net/threads/protein-and-molts.50345/


Regarding others forage, it's usually not significantly high enough in protein on the whole to make a difference.

Do you feed fresh veg?
 
Hi both.

There's no info on the packet of the alfalfa.

I'm torn been it being a good idea and that it would make her moult quicker. But that then there would be more loose fur for her to eat!!!

No they don't eat veg. Made Pip gassy and Archie wasn't fussed.
 
Hi both.

There's no info on the packet of the alfalfa.

I'm torn been it being a good idea and that it would make her moult quicker. But that then there would be more loose fur for her to eat!!!

No they don't eat veg. Made Pip gassy and Archie wasn't fussed.

Ah - Mervinus - I am going to see our rabbit specialist vet tomorrow (henry/tear duct flush), and a couple of weeks ago she gave a 1 hour talk to us one lunchtime, about rabbit care and protein stuff in hay. My memory is rubbish (long story) but I know some of it was relevant about what levels were in alfalfa and stuff, so, if you would like me to ask the question tomorrow when I'm there, I would be more than happy to ask my vet and see what she says. Obviously won't mention names or anything.
 
Ah - Mervinus - I am going to see our rabbit specialist vet tomorrow (henry/tear duct flush), and a couple of weeks ago she gave a 1 hour talk to us one lunchtime, about rabbit care and protein stuff in hay. My memory is rubbish (long story) but I know some of it was relevant about what levels were in alfalfa and stuff, so, if you would like me to ask the question tomorrow when I'm there, I would be more than happy to ask my vet and see what she says. Obviously won't mention names or anything.
Ooh if you get a chance could you ask if a higher protein food like alfalfa could cause a bunny to pull and eat their fur?

Obviously Henry's care is what's most important, so only if you get the time.

We don't have any rabbit specialists down here. :-(
 
Ooh if you get a chance could you ask if a higher protein food like alfalfa could cause a bunny to pull and eat their fur?

Obviously Henry's care is what's most important, so only if you get the time.

We don't have any rabbit specialists down here. :-(

No worries Mervinus - Henry's care is fine. She's just going to give him a tear duct flush. I'll make sure it's the first question I ask cause I'm suffering with short term memory issues and I've made myself a note. She's very good with these things so I'll reply later this afternoon and let you know my findings. I am more than happy - honoured to be able to help you.
Laters - Craig x
 
No worries Mervinus - Henry's care is fine. She's just going to give him a tear duct flush. I'll make sure it's the first question I ask cause I'm suffering with short term memory issues and I've made myself a note. She's very good with these things so I'll reply later this afternoon and let you know my findings. I am more than happy - honoured to be able to help you.
Laters - Craig x
Thank you Craig. Very much appreciated. Sorry about your memory loss :-(.

Pip pip is sending you a virtual nose bump in thanks
 
Thank you Mervinus and thank you Pip.
I spoke to the vet before she treated Henry and asked the question about protein & alfalfa. In her opinion, it wouldn't be protein related from the alfalfa. She has not heard of any behaviour re fur pulling from this.
She suggested as a possibility, kidney stones? as these might be giving discomfort which 'could' be why there is fur pulling. Alternatively it might be just an irritation with the moult.
But she ruled out protein or high levels as a possible cause.
I hope this helps Lady Pip and Hillian send her nse bumps and I'm sending vibes for her and hope she feels better soon.
 
Thank you Mervinus and thank you Pip.
I spoke to the vet before she treated Henry and asked the question about protein & alfalfa. In her opinion, it wouldn't be protein related from the alfalfa. She has not heard of any behaviour re fur pulling from this.
She suggested as a possibility, kidney stones? as these might be giving discomfort which 'could' be why there is fur pulling. Alternatively it might be just an irritation with the moult.
But she ruled out protein or high levels as a possible cause.
I hope this helps Lady Pip and Hillian send her nse bumps and I'm sending vibes for her and hope she feels better soon.

Thanks Craig and Hillian.

She's already had a urine and blood test and they ruled out stones and sludge etc.

I think we're going to stop feeding dandelion leaves and the alfalfa for a month and see if it makes any difference. I know it shouldn't, but she was pulling the fur straight after eating dandelions last night. It's probably just a coincidence, but it's worth a try. She's happy in herself I just worry about her tummy bring full of fur!
 
Thanks Craig and Hillian.

She's already had a urine and blood test and they ruled out stones and sludge etc.

I think we're going to stop feeding dandelion leaves and the alfalfa for a month and see if it makes any difference. I know it shouldn't, but she was pulling the fur straight after eating dandelions last night. It's probably just a coincidence, but it's worth a try. She's happy in herself I just worry about her tummy bring full of fur!


I often wonder how bunnies manage with ingesting the amount of fur they do.

I will be I interested to see the results of your experiment
 
I often wonder how bunnies manage with ingesting the amount of fur they do.

I will be I interested to see the results of your experiment
I shall let you know any updates. Might take a while because I think she's ripped out all the fur already. So we'll have to wait for it to grow back.

Yes it's amazing how it passes through really!!!
 
I shall let you know any updates. Might take a while because I think she's ripped out all the fur already. So we'll have to wait for it to grow back.

Yes it's amazing how it passes through really!!!


Didn't Pip have that problem a good while ago and then stopped?
 
Didn't Pip have that problem a good while ago and then stopped?
Yeah she's always had it. But she hadn't been pulling out as much until the other day when we ended up having to take her to the vets with stasis.

The pulling has never actually stopped. We've just been making sure she ears enough hay to push it all through.

Just made me want to try something else because she was in so much pain.
 
I gave pip some plantain earlier and no fur pulling and she didn't pull any last night either.

We just gave her a mixture of different dried herbs and she started pulling a few mins later. I thought I'd removed all the dandelion, but maybe not. Or perhaps something else upset her. Or of course it's coincidence.
So the experiment begins...

Going to stop with the mixed box and just give plantain for a few days.

Then re try the mixture.

The mixture consists of.

Parsley (this is new, only had this a few times)
Plantain
Raspberry leaves
Echinecea leaves
Chamomile flowers
Hibiscus flowers
Rose petals
Possibly black currant leaves

If she pulls again. We will introduce the dried forage one at a time.

Of course it could be none of these, but it's worth a shot.
 
I gave pip some plantain earlier and no fur pulling and she didn't pull any last night either.

We just gave her a mixture of different dried herbs and she started pulling a few mins later. I thought I'd removed all the dandelion, but maybe not. Or perhaps something else upset her. Or of course it's coincidence.
So the experiment begins...

Going to stop with the mixed box and just give plantain for a few days.

Then re try the mixture.

The mixture consists of.

Parsley (this is new, only had this a few times)
Plantain
Raspberry leaves
Echinecea leaves
Chamomile flowers
Hibiscus flowers
Rose petals
Possibly black currant leaves

If she pulls again. We will introduce the dried forage one at a time.

Of course it could be none of these, but it's worth a shot.


I hope you manage to narrow it down for her sake.
Can't be good for the poor wee thing to be pulling all that fur out :(
 
I hope you manage to narrow it down for her sake.
Can't be good for the poor wee thing to be pulling all that fur out :(
No. It definitely isn't good. She's had a lovely day hopping around the house and snoozing in her favourite places whilst we did some gardening.

Fingers crossed this isn't coincidence
 
Update.

So the buns have been only having hay, pellets and a little bit of plantain.

She has been cleaning her chin/chest, but not pulling it.

Yesterday afternoon my OH gave them some mixed dried forage.

I noticed her pulling her fur out soon after ...

Still might be a coincidence, but going to try her with individual dried forage one at a time and see if we can work out what it is that's upsetting her.
 
Update.

So the buns have been only having hay, pellets and a little bit of plantain.

She has been cleaning her chin/chest, but not pulling it.

Yesterday afternoon my OH gave them some mixed dried forage.

I noticed her pulling her fur out soon after ...

Still might be a coincidence, but going to try her with individual dried forage one at a time and see if we can work out what it is that's upsetting her.


I admire your patience with this food/forage tolerance exercise :)
 
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