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U/D Vibes for Henry please -New 6th FebU/D after vet

MightyMax said:
That sounds like an amazingly thorough check up Craig and I bet you felt it was worth every cent.

There is good evidence to show that Gabapentin works very well on nerve pain and I know several specialist vets that are definitely in favour of it's use :)

There's an article here that might be worth a read of when you've time:

https://www.researchgate.net/public...itis_leads_to_serious_side-effects_in_rabbits


Just thinking - would a hay only diet possibly lead to more weight loss, even if just for a short time?
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Exactly my thoughts when she said it. I get the logic on how it will be better on his teeth, but it's going to be neigh on impossible to police it. Lillian will go booloo if I suddenly stop the nomms and my concern really is Henry needs to either hold/sustain his weight or put it on. So I'll get some of the long stem hay from work and the best I can do is to make it available in all their living areas in the hope that they at least dig in. I'll reduce the pellets and the greens and carrots so that they sort of have to go to the hay. But I feel they need to eat so removing what they are used to might not be well thought of by Hillian.
 
I think you have to go with your gut feeling (no pun intended) regarding the diet. No experience in bunnies, but gabapentine has been shown to be very effective in reducing human nerve pain and is one of the first lines of treatment after anti inflammatories. Sending lots of vibes for you both x
 
Hi! My bunny and a previous bunny have both been on 1/4 gabapentin and are doing/did very well on it! I would recommend a pill cutter or ask the vets to do it for you as it’s very crumbly! I just hide it in some fibre plex. Also re hay only, my guys are currently hay only due to gut issues and they’ve only lost 20g after a month or so but they’re super hay eaters and they can still have grass

Hope some of this is helpful!
 
This sounds like a really useful consultation by a vet who seems to have considered Henry's symptoms carefully, without rushing to quick conclusions as to possible causes for his issues. I presume that you will see her again for his next check-up in a week's time. Gabapentin is certainly used for nerve pain in humans.

Like you I'm not quite sure about the hay only diet for a week. My thoughts would be not so much about the weight loss issue, but I don't know how much change would be evident in his teeth after just one week (I presume this is what she is thinking). If I were you, I think I would ring the vets and discuss it with her on the phone if you can before deciding on what to do about it. She is clearly wanting to see what effect it has had on Henry after a week, which is why she's asked to see him again then. I think if you don't follow her advice, it might be difficult when you return with Henry.
 
Craig 1965 said:
Exactly my thoughts when she said it. I get the logic on how it will be better on his teeth, but it's going to be neigh on impossible to police it. Lillian will go booloo if I suddenly stop the nomms and my concern really is Henry needs to either hold/sustain his weight or put it on. So I'll get some of the long stem hay from work and the best I can do is to make it available in all their living areas in the hope that they at least dig in. I'll reduce the pellets and the greens and carrots so that they sort of have to go to the hay. But I feel they need to eat so removing what they are used to might not be well thought of by Hillian.
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Well only you and the vet can decide, but wearing the crowns of the teeth may not make any difference to the tooth roots, if that's what the thinking is, and in one week I would doubt there would be any difference to show. There may be additional weight loss for Henry, and you do risk upsetting the apple cart with Lillian who has her her own issues with food. But I will try not to interfere on that one :)

Getting in some nommy hay is certainly a good idea, and there's always readigrass and oat-readigrass, which are as good as hay at wearing teeth down and provide more calories than regular hay. Alfalfa hay is also good for teeth wear and weight gain, so long as there are no existing bladder sludge issues.
 
Brief update on Henry. Well, there isn't really much change in things in so far as his leg is concerned. He is still chosing to hold it up off the floor but will put it down 'sometimes'. He has occasionally stratched the leg out when he has been lying down and voluntarily stretches it out. To me this sort of shows he has some control on it. I just wish he would use it. My O/H thinks that the leg is beginning to 'waste' - in so much that as he isn't using it, the muscles will become redundant. Oh, hang on a minute.......excuse me, Henry has just made his way to the stairs and I've had to grab him 3 steps up as he tried to navigate up the stairs on 3 legs.
Right, where was I? Oh yes, Henrys leg. So, he's still not keen to use it properly and that continues to concern me as we are 2 weeks in now. The gabapentin are proving challenging getting into Henry because he has worked out that his favorite dried cranberries are now off the menu because they were laced with metacam and he's worked that out. So he takes the cranberry and spits it out!
I've had to adapt slightly and use the leafy bits of a celery stalk to dab up the powder and get it in him that way. So his leg still concerns me. We see the exotic vet again on Monday.
His eye seems ok. There's no more goopy discharge. The fur round the eye is a bit wet - meaning he's producing tears but at least theres no nasty stuff there.
Someone is hoovering up the hay I'm putting out - but I've a feeling I know who and it's not Henry. He's just not himself still - and that's because he can't belt round the place.
Does anyone know how long possible muscle/nerve damage can last? Have I got a few more weeks of this? The stress is really getting to me and I'm not 100% myself.
Well, that's where we are at the moment. Thank you all again for following and supporting Henry's little journey here.
Craig x
 
I don't know how long muscle/nerve damage could take to resolve, although I suspect it could be a while. I think your best bet would be to discuss this with the vet on Monday, including how long she would expect it to take to improve. She'll possibly also at this stage recommend some further diagnostics such as an x-ray or CT scan.

Poor little soldier :(
 
I'm sorry Henry isn't tip top yet but excellent progress so far all things considered. The exotics specialist sounds fab to have on board
 
Craig 1965 said:
Brief update on Henry. Well, there isn't really much change in things in so far as his leg is concerned. He is still chosing to hold it up off the floor but will put it down 'sometimes'. He has occasionally stratched the leg out when he has been lying down and voluntarily stretches it out. To me this sort of shows he has some control on it. I just wish he would use it. My O/H thinks that the leg is beginning to 'waste' - in so much that as he isn't using it, the muscles will become redundant. Oh, hang on a minute.......excuse me, Henry has just made his way to the stairs and I've had to grab him 3 steps up as he tried to navigate up the stairs on 3 legs.
Right, where was I? Oh yes, Henrys leg. So, he's still not keen to use it properly and that continues to concern me as we are 2 weeks in now. The gabapentin are proving challenging getting into Henry because he has worked out that his favorite dried cranberries are now off the menu because they were laced with metacam and he's worked that out. So he takes the cranberry and spits it out!
I've had to adapt slightly and use the leafy bits of a celery stalk to dab up the powder and get it in him that way. So his leg still concerns me. We see the exotic vet again on Monday.
His eye seems ok. There's no more goopy discharge. The fur round the eye is a bit wet - meaning he's producing tears but at least theres no nasty stuff there.
Someone is hoovering up the hay I'm putting out - but I've a feeling I know who and it's not Henry. He's just not himself still - and that's because he can't belt round the place.
Does anyone know how long possible muscle/nerve damage can last? Have I got a few more weeks of this? The stress is really getting to me and I'm not 100% myself.
Well, that's where we are at the moment. Thank you all again for following and supporting Henry's little journey here.
Craig x
Click to expand...


Thank you for the update Craig :)

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but in my experience muscle/nerve damage can take longer than 2/3 weeks to resolve. I should thinking in terms of 5/6 weeks and re-asses.

How are you feeling now? Are you back on form physically, even though your stress levels seem to be slowly gong through the roof? x
 
I know that when they aren’t right it’s hard, and it’s easy to lose sight of the progress they are making. It sounds to me like he’s getting there, slowly but surely :thumb: sending lots more vibes xx
 
Craig 1965 said:
Brief update on Henry. Well, there isn't really much change in things in so far as his leg is concerned. He is still chosing to hold it up off the floor but will put it down 'sometimes'. He has occasionally stratched the leg out when he has been lying down and voluntarily stretches it out. To me this sort of shows he has some control on it. I just wish he would use it. My O/H thinks that the leg is beginning to 'waste' - in so much that as he isn't using it, the muscles will become redundant. Oh, hang on a minute.......excuse me, Henry has just made his way to the stairs and I've had to grab him 3 steps up as he tried to navigate up the stairs on 3 legs.
Right, where was I? Oh yes, Henrys leg. So, he's still not keen to use it properly and that continues to concern me as we are 2 weeks in now. The gabapentin are proving challenging getting into Henry because he has worked out that his favorite dried cranberries are now off the menu because they were laced with metacam and he's worked that out. So he takes the cranberry and spits it out!
I've had to adapt slightly and use the leafy bits of a celery stalk to dab up the powder and get it in him that way. So his leg still concerns me. We see the exotic vet again on Monday.
His eye seems ok. There's no more goopy discharge. The fur round the eye is a bit wet - meaning he's producing tears but at least theres no nasty stuff there.
Someone is hoovering up the hay I'm putting out - but I've a feeling I know who and it's not Henry. He's just not himself still - and that's because he can't belt round the place.
Does anyone know how long possible muscle/nerve damage can last? Have I got a few more weeks of this? The stress is really getting to me and I'm not 100% myself.
Well, that's where we are at the moment. Thank you all again for following and supporting Henry's little journey here.
Craig x
Click to expand...

I would suggest asking the Vet about starting Henry on a Physiotherapy regime. This will help prevent further muscle wastage as his limb continues to heal. Your Vet may be happy to devise some physio that you could do at home. Or there may be the option of a referal to a Physiotherapist

http://www.helpinghandsvetphysio.co.uk/rabbits/

Two other treatments that may accelerate healing are laser therapy. From my Vet's website :

''Laser therapy is becoming very popular, and here at Twickenham Veterinary Surgery we have a fantastic class IV laser machine. Christabel originally got it to help treat osteoarthritis in those patients who would not tolerate her acupuncture needles, but we now use it in a wide variety of cases, and find it particularly effective in musculoskeletal problems and wound healing.
Laser therapy uses specific wavelengths of light that create therapeutic effects such as an increase in circulation, a decrease in pain, a decrease in inflammation and swelling and it also improves healing time. During each painless treatment, laser energy increases circulation, drawing water, oxygen and nutrients to the damaged area. This creates an optimal healing environment which then in turn decreases inflammation, swelling, muscle spasms, stiffness and pain. As the injured area returns to normal, function is restored and pain is relieved.''

https://www.twickenhamvets.co.uk/about-us/facilities


and acupuncture

https://barton-vets.co.uk/referrals/acupuncture/


I dont know if Henry is Insured, but if he is then Insurance often covers the costs of both Acupuncture and Laser Therapy.
 
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Jack's-Jane said:
I would suggest asking the Vet about starting Henry on a Physiotherapy regime. This will help prevent further muscle wastage as his limb continues to heal. Your Vet may be happy to devise some physio that you could do at home. Or there may be the option of a referal to a Physiotherapist

http://www.helpinghandsvetphysio.co.uk/rabbits/

Two other treatments that may accelerate healing are laser therapy. From my Vet's website :

''Laser therapy is becoming very popular, and here at Twickenham Veterinary Surgery we have a fantastic class IV laser machine. Christabel originally got it to help treat osteoarthritis in those patients who would not tolerate her acupuncture needles, but we now use it in a wide variety of cases, and find it particularly effective in musculoskeletal problems and wound healing.
Laser therapy uses specific wavelengths of light that create therapeutic effects such as an increase in circulation, a decrease in pain, a decrease in inflammation and swelling and it also improves healing time. During each painless treatment, laser energy increases circulation, drawing water, oxygen and nutrients to the damaged area. This creates an optimal healing environment which then in turn decreases inflammation, swelling, muscle spasms, stiffness and pain. As the injured area returns to normal, function is restored and pain is relieved.''

https://www.twickenhamvets.co.uk/about-us/facilities


and acupuncture

https://barton-vets.co.uk/referrals/acupuncture/


I dont know if Henry is Insured, but if he is then Insurance often covers the costs of both Acupuncture and Laser Therapy.
Click to expand...

Thank you Jane. I had been wondering about that option - you have helped to clear my mind on that. Sadly no, Henry isn't insured - which slightly limits some options.
Thank you again
 
MightyMax said:
Thank you for the update Craig :)

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but in my experience muscle/nerve damage can take longer than 2/3 weeks to resolve. I should thinking in terms of 5/6 weeks and re-asses.

How are you feeling now? Are you back on form physically, even though your stress levels seem to be slowly gong through the roof? x
Click to expand...

Thank you MM. Also started the ech-thingymajug last night as the bottle arrived in the post. Blimey - it smells a bit. So I put it in the metacam. Thank you for the advice onlength of recovery. I guess I'm just impatient.
Me? I've spent the last week sleeping on the sofa at night. It's a 'back to my childhood' sort of thing because when I'm not well, I find some amazing degree of solstice from sleeping on the sofa - as uncomfortable as that sounds. It also means my wife gets a good nights kip. The living room is surprisingly warm during the night but tends to drop to cold at about 3am but I just snuggle under the thermal blanket. Last night something spooked the buns quite badly at about 3am because when I woke up, Lillian was thumping her little heart out. I know it was her because (a) Henry can't really do that at the moment and (b) the house vibrates with the stomping of her monster feetsies. I've no idea what she heard but she went booloo for a good 5 minutes.
After a week of lemsips, I'm sort of just getting on top of the lurgy and hopefully in the next 3-5 days I might start to feel human again.
 
There was a rabbit on the Yorkshire Vet last night which was limping on a hindleg. Under X-ray it showed she had broken 3 of her metatarsils so they wrapped what looked like plaster of paris round the leg so that it would self-heal.
 
Craig 1965 said:
Thank you MM. Also started the ech-thingymajug last night as the bottle arrived in the post. Blimey - it smells a bit. So I put it in the metacam. Thank you for the advice onlength of recovery. I guess I'm just impatient.
Me? I've spent the last week sleeping on the sofa at night. It's a 'back to my childhood' sort of thing because when I'm not well, I find some amazing degree of solstice from sleeping on the sofa - as uncomfortable as that sounds. It also means my wife gets a good nights kip. The living room is surprisingly warm during the night but tends to drop to cold at about 3am but I just snuggle under the thermal blanket. Last night something spooked the buns quite badly at about 3am because when I woke up, Lillian was thumping her little heart out. I know it was her because (a) Henry can't really do that at the moment and (b) the house vibrates with the stomping of her monster feetsies. I've no idea what she heard but she went booloo for a good 5 minutes.
After a week of lemsips, I'm sort of just getting on top of the lurgy and hopefully in the next 3-5 days I might start to feel human again.
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Oh Craig, you're still not tip-top? Sorry to hear that. I hope you get a good night on the sofa - I totally get the comforting aspect, but I couldn't find a sofa comfortable for a whole night's sleep!

Regards little Henry's leg, I use to work with a veterinary physiotherapist many years ago, and together we devised plans for various rabbit injuries. So I learned a lot. If you had one session, you might be able to gain some tips so that you can use them at home and not have to pay for a whole round of sessions. A bit like a physio for us, giving us exercises to do at home.

Just a thought x
 
I swear this rabbit will be the death of me! This morning, Henry is full of beans. Much more lively than the last 2 weeks and I know I'm going to get "we told you so" - and you did. But he wasn't 'Henry'. I come back tonight and let them both into the living room and Henry is out like a shot from the living room, doing his circuit of the kitchen/hallway - but more importantly I was watching him using his leg and there was, in so far as I could see, some definate improvement because he was 'galloping' on it. Now, just sitting on the sofa, he's binkying up the room - just short head twitchy flashes but he's gaining speed and confidence and obviously using the paw for some weight bearing. He still sits proud and holds it up slightly, but there's evidence tonight that he is gaining more feeling and confidence.
Craig x
 
Craig 1965 said:
I swear this rabbit will be the death of me! This morning, Henry is full of beans. Much more lively than the last 2 weeks and I know I'm going to get "we told you so" - and you did. But he wasn't 'Henry'. I come back tonight and let them both into the living room and Henry is out like a shot from the living room, doing his circuit of the kitchen/hallway - but more importantly I was watching him using his leg and there was, in so far as I could see, some definate improvement because he was 'galloping' on it. Now, just sitting on the sofa, he's binkying up the room - just short head twitchy flashes but he's gaining speed and confidence and obviously using the paw for some weight bearing. He still sits proud and holds it up slightly, but there's evidence tonight that he is gaining more feeling and confidence.
Craig x
Click to expand...


This is really good news Craig :D

I'm so glad you're seeing an improvement, even if sometimes it seems like two steps forward and one backward.
 
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