Bladder flushing?

Hi everyone,

My little man bailey has been suffering with ‘we think’ sludge in his bladder..

He has bottled non calcium water, low calcium herbs and hardly any treats but every so often has a blip where he struggles to urinate and has even had a slightly bloody willy on 1 occasion.

He eats tonnes of hay, ings and oat hay. Has 1/4 egg cup full of selective science pellets twice daily and also drinks a fair amount. (Nothing worryingly)

Hes had a number of urine tests which show no indication of infection but some do contain sludge. He’s also been tested for EC, which we’re waiting to hear back on. He’s also had ultrasounds which show no stones but does show a small amount of sludge in his bladder. The vet is saying it’s not an overly large amount and wouldn’t bother many rabbits but are now suggesting we flush his bladder?

The vet has explained it’s not huge and should be relatively easy but wanted to see peoples views? And whether it helped cure your buns?



Thanks so much xxx

Ruthyjones89 said:

Hi everyone,

My little man bailey has been suffering with ‘we think’ sludge in his bladder..

He has bottled non calcium water, low calcium herbs and hardly any treats but every so often has a blip where he struggles to urinate and has even had a slightly bloody willy on 1 occasion.

He eats tonnes of hay, ings and oat hay. Has 1/4 egg cup full of selective science pellets twice daily and also drinks a fair amount. (Nothing worryingly)

Hes had a number of urine tests which show no indication of infection but some do contain sludge. He’s also been tested for EC, which was negative thankfully. He’s also had both xrays and ultrasounds which show no stones but does show a small amount of sludge in his bladder. The vet is saying it’s not an overly large amount and wouldn’t bother many rabbits but are now suggesting we flush his bladder?

The vet has explained it’s not huge and should be relatively easy but wanted to see peoples views? And whether it helped cure your buns?



Thanks so much xxx

Click to expand...

I have had a few Rabbits who required a 'bladder flush' under GA. Obviously this resolves the immediate problem, but for ongoing management it is necessary to try to ascertain the cause of the excess calcium deposits.

A small amount of calcium deposits may be a 'normal' finding. If Bailey is asymptomatic perhaps your Vet may consider a more conservative approach initially. This could be fluid therapy for a few days. Subcutaneous fluids would suffice and you could do this at home. This will increase urine production and the small amount of calcium deposits seen on Xray may pass out 'naturally'. Sometimes a diuretic may be given too.These increase urine output.

Some info you may find useful to read through:

http://wildpro.twycrosszoo.org/S/00dis/Miscellaneous/HypercalciuriaRabbits.htm

https://burgesspetcare.com/blog/post.php?s=2017-03-14-urolithiasis-in-rabbits

http://wildpro.twycrosszoo.org/S/00...uesRabbit/Urethral_Catheterisation_Rabbit.htm

https://www.harcourt-brown.co.uk/ar...t-for-rabbits-with-urinary-tract-disease/view

https://www.harcourt-brown.co.uk/articles/free-food-for-rabbits/calcium-and-rabbit-food

http://www.therabbithouse.com/diet/diet-lowcalcium.asp

Ruthyjones89 said:

Hi everyone,

My little man bailey has been suffering with ‘we think’ sludge in his bladder..

He has bottled non calcium water, low calcium herbs and hardly any treats but every so often has a blip where he struggles to urinate and has even had a slightly bloody willy on 1 occasion.

He eats tonnes of hay, ings and oat hay. Has 1/4 egg cup full of selective science pellets twice daily and also drinks a fair amount. (Nothing worryingly)

Hes had a number of urine tests which show no indication of infection but some do contain sludge. He’s also been tested for EC, which we’re waiting to hear back on. He’s also had ultrasounds which show no stones but does show a small amount of sludge in his bladder. The vet is saying it’s not an overly large amount and wouldn’t bother many rabbits but are now suggesting we flush his bladder?

The vet has explained it’s not huge and should be relatively easy but wanted to see peoples views? And whether it helped cure your buns?



Thanks so much xxx

Click to expand...

Hi Ruth :wave:

Yes I have had experience of this.

Why does your vet say the amount is small, and wouldn't bother many rabbits, but is suggesting that you now flush? Is it causing him a problem now - pain etc?

There's a lovely lady on here, Nickybunny1 who has lots of experience of this, and I am sure she wouldn't mind a PM from you

You seem to be doing all the right things regards diet and water. The flush as you know is under GA, which is always a risk, so I wouldn't do it unless necessary, but it sounds like it is now?

Some info here that I found particularly helpful:

https://www.harcourt-brown.co.uk/articles/free-food-for-rabbits/calcium-and-rabbit-food

https://www.harcourt-brown.co.uk/ar...t-for-rabbits-with-urinary-tract-disease/view

How are you doing yourselves?

Jack's-Jane said:

I have had a few Rabbits who required a 'bladder flush' under GA. Obviously this resolves the immediate problem, but for ongoing management it is necessary to try to ascertain the cause of the excess calcium deposits.

A small amount of calcium deposits may be a 'normal' finding. If Bailey is asymptomatic perhaps your Vet may consider a more conservative approach initially. This could be fluid therapy for a few days. Subcutaneous fluids would suffice and you could do this at home. This will increase urine production and the small amount of calcium deposits seen on Xray may pass out 'naturally'. Sometimes a diuretic may be given too.These increase urine output.

Some info you may find useful to read through:

http://wildpro.twycrosszoo.org/S/00dis/Miscellaneous/HypercalciuriaRabbits.htm

https://burgesspetcare.com/blog/post.php?s=2017-03-14-urolithiasis-in-rabbits

http://wildpro.twycrosszoo.org/S/00...uesRabbit/Urethral_Catheterisation_Rabbit.htm

https://www.harcourt-brown.co.uk/ar...t-for-rabbits-with-urinary-tract-disease/view

https://www.harcourt-brown.co.uk/articles/free-food-for-rabbits/calcium-and-rabbit-food

http://www.therabbithouse.com/diet/diet-lowcalcium.asp

Click to expand...

Hi Jane,

thanks so much for posting, we have already tried fluid therapy a few months ago and although it did help him at the time, he's back struggling again now and the vets feel that due to the amount of sludge visible in his urine sample, the bladder flush is the next step for him.

It's as if he spot wees and doesn't empty his full bladder anymore, we can increase his water intake and still this doesn't necessarily increase his size of wees.

We've had it twice recently, where he will sit hunched and stop eating. As soon as he has some metacam and we syringe him some water, a couple of hours late he's back himself...

Also huge thanks for the links, we have gone through his diet so many times and there is nothing that is really high calcium.. he does like his herbs, like coriander and basil but again we don't give him loads. He used to love his plantain forage, similar to redigrass but both he doesn't have anymore. He can't have many veg as these upset his tummy! xx

MightyMax said:

Hi Ruth :wave:

Yes I have had experience of this.

Why does your vet say the amount is small, and wouldn't bother many rabbits, but is suggesting that you now flush? Is it causing him a problem now - pain etc?

There's a lovely lady on here, Nickybunny1 who has lots of experience of this, and I am sure she wouldn't mind a PM from you

You seem to be doing all the right things regards diet and water. The flush as you know is under GA, which is always a risk, so I wouldn't do it unless necessary, but it sounds like it is now?

Some info here that I found particularly helpful:

https://www.harcourt-brown.co.uk/articles/free-food-for-rabbits/calcium-and-rabbit-food

https://www.harcourt-brown.co.uk/ar...t-for-rabbits-with-urinary-tract-disease/view

How are you doing yourselves?

Click to expand...

HI Mighty Max,

again, thanks so much for posting!

ah yes.. I completly forgot about Nickybunny.. I'll drop her a message shortly thank you!

we have been back and forth to the vets throughout the year about his bladder.. and the vets feel this is the next step to try and help him.. I'm absolutely terrified about him having it done, but I know it's got to help him out!

apart from this, we're all good thanks! Bella and Bailey are so close, they are always together and super happy.. hope everything is good with you? and all the buns are doing well? xxx

Hi Ruthy, aw look how beautiful Bailey is he is incredibly like my Oliver except Oliver had less white on his chest. Poor Bailey and his sludge Oliver was treated for sludge for about 3 years and no mater what diet changes I made such as low calcium greens, low calcium bottled water, low calcium pellets it did not help he was still needing a flush about every 10 months. Prior to his last flush he had been having sub-q fluids every day also for about 6 months. But still the sludge returned. The flushes were always straight forward, he recovered very very quickly and the difference was amazing, he would lie stretched out more, run around more was less hunched and was so much happier. But prior to each flush I was a nervous wreck so I understand your worry. I aways knew when a flush was nearly due as about 2 months before there would be spotting and he would hunch a little more but the vet would tell me to give metacam for a while which always helped as we wanted to extend the time between flushes as much as possible. The vet always tested Olivers urine every couple of months for infection and sludge as sludge buns are more prone to uti's. She also felt his bladder to feel the quantity of sludge present. He never had an ultrasound.

A few points on sludge, sonetimes when the urine was centrifuged and not much sludge was present - this would be done on the day of the flush and but the flush would produce a lot of sludge so basically do not go but the centrifuge result alone.

Secondly, at Olivers last flush the vet said she could not feel that much sludge in his bladder but I said his spotting was really bad so she did the flush and she said that was the most sludge she had seen come out from him so she was surprised herself. So I guess the same could maybe be true for the ultrasound it may not show up all the sludge.

My advice would be to go by Baileys symptoms and when you feel that the metacam is working less and the spotting is more then you have no choice I think but to do the flush.



Hope this helps.

Nicky xx

Hi Nicky,

Honestly thanks so so much, your post really helped!!

We’ve since been back to the vets and saw a more senior exotics vet, he felt bailey’s bladder and agreed it didn’t feel too bad, he’s also taken a look at bailey’s ultrasound and believes there is more sludge present than actually shows.. and suggested it could also be built up in his tubes maybe..

He’s currently on metacam and he is much better on it, but he’s also spot weeing quite a lot and more so in the the last 2 weeks and even on the carpet which he’s never done!

Although he’s still his cheeky self, I’ve noticed he digs first thing in a morning (which he never used to do) and when I was watching him 2 nights ago, he’ll try lying flat on his belly but instantly get up and sit hunched instead so I know it’s painful for him and needs it doing.

The vets agreed and he’s booked in for his flush next Wednesday 9th September... *gulp*

Thanks so much for your help though, it’s helped so much. I just couldn’t work out what I was doing wrong with his diet, but it’s a relief to hear Oliver was similar. Bless him and hope you’re keeping well..?xxx

Hi Ruthy, I am glad you have come to a decision over the flush for beautiful little Bailey. Sludge is horrible for them but the flush will make him a new bun bun again. The flush is a quick procedure apparently and Oliver was fine again that evening but had metacam for a few days after as the badder and urethra can be a bit tender. I will be thinking of you and Bailey on Wednesday but he will be fine I know it, but I know you will worry as would I we can't help it! Xx

We went through with bailey’s bladder flush.. and we’ll being honest it’s been a rough 24 hours!

He’s had x3 burphaine injections, on 100mg tramadol, metacam, baytril and zantac.

The flush itself went well and there was quite a build up of sludge, but when flushing they noticed how inflamed his bladder was. The vets believed he could have a bladder infection which hadn’t been picked up. So a culture was taken and we’re still waiting for the results.

24 hours in, he’s still dribbling urine and is yet to have a proper wee! His willy is seriously sore so it’s clear he’s trying not to urinate. He’s already on strong pain relief as last night he began whimpering, so headed straight to the emergency vets. His whimpering how now stopped and although his appetite has increased slightly it’s still not brilliant!

He continues to have his tail up constantly and strain to try and wee but noting comes out. It’s obvious he’s got a full bladder as you can feel it, but still struggling to pass urine.

The vets have suggested we admit him to have a catheter inserted to help relieve him and not have to have the pain when trying to wee. Currently he’s still at home with me as he’s not the best patient at the vets as he hates being shut in.

But I’m just trying to weigh up my options here, his appetite isn’t brilliant but he is munching odd bits of hay, grass, herbs and had some dried parsnip.

It’s now 24 hours since and I’m wondering when can we expect to see some improvement? I understand it’s painful for him but at the same time, he’s on a lot of pain relief..

I don’t have any experience of this so I can’t advise, but I’m sending lots of vibes for him xx

Ruthyjones89 said:

We went through with bailey’s bladder flush.. and we’ll being honest it’s been a rough 24 hours!

He’s had x3 burphaine injections, on 100mg tramadol, metacam, baytril and zantac.

The flush itself went well and there was quite a build up of sludge, but when flushing they noticed how inflamed his bladder was. The vets believed he could have a bladder infection which hadn’t been picked up. So a culture was taken and we’re still waiting for the results.

24 hours in, he’s still dribbling urine and is yet to have a proper wee! His willy is seriously sore so it’s clear he’s trying not to urinate. He’s already on strong pain relief as last night he began whimpering, so headed straight to the emergency vets. His whimpering how now stopped and although his appetite has increased slightly it’s still not brilliant!

He continues to have his tail up constantly and strain to try and wee but noting comes out. It’s obvious he’s got a full bladder as you can feel it, but still struggling to pass urine.

The vets have suggested we admit him to have a catheter inserted to help relieve him and not have to have the pain when trying to wee. Currently he’s still at home with me as he’s not the best patient at the vets as he hates being shut in.

But I’m just trying to weigh up my options here, his appetite isn’t brilliant but he is munching odd bits of hay, grass, herbs and had some dried parsnip.

It’s now 24 hours since and I’m wondering when can we expect to see some improvement? I understand it’s painful for him but at the same time, he’s on a lot of pain relief..

Click to expand...

Hi Ruth

It seems like it was certainly the right decision to go ahead and have the flush done for your little one.

What did the vet say about recovery time? I am so sorry that he's struggling to pee.
I hope it doesn't come to having a catheter, but at least it will get the flow going and hopefully things will begin to rectify after that.

Sending you hugs. They do worry us, these buns xx

Sending vibes for little Bailey, I hope he improves more overnight. Hugs xx

How's things now Ruth?

Hi both,

Thanks so much for the vibes and help.

He’s doing much better today.. we opted not to admit him as he was picking at food and was looking more relaxed being at home. He continues on his tramadol, metacam, Zantac and baytril.

He has been passing abit of blood in his urine, but apparently this can be expected after a bladder flush. He’s still hasn’t done a proper wee, but the constant dribbling has calmed down and he is now continuing to spot wee.

The vets fully believe it was a bladder infection which wasn’t picked up to why he was in so much pain and the flush had made this worse. We did a number of urine samples which showed no sign of infection whatsoever. He also had bad diarrhoea yesterday which was similar to black tar and not nice at all... after this he seemed brighter in himself. So I’m not sure if this is from the anaesthetic or the mixture of medications he’s on. But he’s back to more harder and better formed poops since.

He’s Still not eating much and picking but he is eating hay, grass and herbs. We’re also hoping the Meds should be kicking in now and he’ll continue to improve.

Culture results are due back on Monday so this will determine whether we keep him on baytril or go for another anti-biotic.

We’ve also got a check up next Thursday where they’ll run a blood test to see if the infection is visible and look at his kidney values to be on the safe side.

Xx

His urine currently


And my little trooper..

Aw look at your very brave beautiful boy, he looks a wee bit sorry for himself understandably . But I know he is getting the best love and care from you. He is so beautiful Ruth. I am glad to read this more positive update for Bailey things are slowly but surely improving and I am glad he is brighter in himself. Yes I can see the red tinge in his pee which I am sure is slightly worrying but hopefully as his bladder settles and the baytril works more this will improve. Glad he was able to stay as home also. Thanks for update Ruth. Hugs to you both xx

nickybunny1 said:

Aw look at your very brave beautiful boy, he looks a wee bit sorry for himself understandably . But I know he is getting the best love and care from you. He is so beautiful Ruth. I am glad to read this more positive update for Bailey things are slowly but surely improving and I am glad he is brighter in himself. Yes I can see the red tinge in his pee which I am sure is slightly worrying but hopefully as his bladder settles and the baytril works more this will improve. Glad he was able to stay as home also. Thanks for update Ruth. Hugs to you both xx

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Thanks so much Nicky, you’ve been such an amazing help over the last few days.. means so much!

Yeah we’ve got our fingers crossed, he’ll continue to improve now and his appetite will get better. He’s loving grass and the odd couple of dandelions, along with a small amount of dried plantain and a couple of carrot peelings.

The blood really was quite concerning but like you said this should settle down as his bladder inflammation calms down.

Bunnies hey?! And thanks for all the vibes xxxx

No problem at all Ruth, you and Bailey have done all the hard work. I look forward to hearing more positive updates about the beautiful Bailey xx

Ruthyjones89 said:

Hi both,

Thanks so much for the vibes and help.

He’s doing much better today.. we opted not to admit him as he was picking at food and was looking more relaxed being at home. He continues on his tramadol, metacam, Zantac and baytril.

He has been passing abit of blood in his urine, but apparently this can be expected after a bladder flush. He’s still hasn’t done a proper wee, but the constant dribbling has calmed down and he is now continuing to spot wee.

The vets fully believe it was a bladder infection which wasn’t picked up to why he was in so much pain and the flush had made this worse. We did a number of urine samples which showed no sign of infection whatsoever. He also had bad diarrhoea yesterday which was similar to black tar and not nice at all... after this he seemed brighter in himself. So I’m not sure if this is from the anaesthetic or the mixture of medications he’s on. But he’s back to more harder and better formed poops since.

He’s Still not eating much and picking but he is eating hay, grass and herbs. We’re also hoping the Meds should be kicking in now and he’ll continue to improve.

Culture results are due back on Monday so this will determine whether we keep him on baytril or go for another anti-biotic.

We’ve also got a check up next Thursday where they’ll run a blood test to see if the infection is visible and look at his kidney values to be on the safe side.

Xx

Click to expand...

He really is gorgeous Ruth

I am glad he's eating the good stuff and I hope he continues with that. He's being so well looked after, you couldn't do more.
I am so glad that Nickybunny has been with you during this time

Loads of love and hugs to you, stay strong xx

I hope he is feeling better soon, sending lots of vibes xx