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Suspected EC but kidneys clear and no head tilt?

Thumper98

Thumper98

Warren Scout
Hi RU,

So the vets and i are baffled by Lilou's inability to put on weight (she would be losing but im syringing her on critical care daily), and why she leaves such a large amount of uneaten caecotrophs every morning. Finally, a blood test was done and it turns out her liver values are high. She was put on liver supplements and i really thought perhaps she had a fatty liver or something. But the liver supplements have not worked. Blood test this week again showed even higher results! Weight is still low - she's only 880g, with ideal weight at 1.1+ kg.

One of the senior vets suggested testing her for EC because that's the only thing we have not ruled out. I was surprised because I've always associated EC with head tilt and hind limb weaknesses and she didnt show signs of these. She also had good kidney results! So within the 2 weeks wait for the results, she's now been put on panacur.

Is it possible for a bunny to be clear on kidneys, no head tilt etc and still have EC that's causing weight loss?

She lives with her brother Leo and Leo is a healthy weight, eats well etc. But lately has had a red infected eye.... i am sure if Lilou has EC, Leo most definitely has it too. Should I ask for Leo to be put on panacur as a precaution as well? I figure if she's got it and is being treated for it, then I dont want Leo to reinfect Lilou.

This whole saga with Lilou has been so emotionally draining. I am almost hoping that it is indeed EC so that we have a target to shoot at and something to work with. *Sigh*
 
Thumper98 said:
Hi RU,

So the vets and i are baffled by Lilou's inability to put on weight (she would be losing but im syringing her on critical care daily), and why she leaves such a large amount of uneaten caecotrophs every morning. Finally, a blood test was done and it turns out her liver values are high. She was put on liver supplements and i really thought perhaps she had a fatty liver or something. But the liver supplements have not worked. Blood test this week again showed even higher results! Weight is still low - she's only 880g, with ideal weight at 1.1+ kg.

One of the senior vets suggested testing her for EC because that's the only thing we have not ruled out. I was surprised because I've always associated EC with head tilt and hind limb weaknesses and she didnt show signs of these. She also had good kidney results! So within the 2 weeks wait for the results, she's now been put on panacur.

Is it possible for a bunny to be clear on kidneys, no head tilt etc and still have EC that's causing weight loss?

She lives with her brother Leo and Leo is a healthy weight, eats well etc. But lately has had a red infected eye.... i am sure if Lilou has EC, Leo most definitely has it too. Should I ask for Leo to be put on panacur as a precaution as well? I figure if she's got it and is being treated for it, then I dont want Leo to reinfect Lilou.

This whole saga with Lilou has been so emotionally draining. I am almost hoping that it is indeed EC so that we have a target to shoot at and something to work with. *Sigh*
Click to expand...

With EC what clinical symptoms present depends on what organs have been damaged by erupting EC spores. With regards to EC and the Liver :

''Hepatic:
There may be a focal non-suppurative hepatitis but this is usually not apparent clinically''.

Full details here:
http://wildpro.twycrosszoo.org/S/00dis/Parasitic/Encephalitozoonosis.htm



Has the possibility of Hepatic Coccidiosis been considered ?

http://wildpro.twycrosszoo.org/S/00dis/Parasitic/Hepatic_coccidiosis_rabbits.htm


Or Rabbit Megacolon Syndrome (RMS):

*Warning some graphic images in these links*
https://rabbitwelfare.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/RO-Spring-17-Megacolon.pdf

http://www.medirabbit.com/EN/GI_diseases/Mega/mega_en.htm
 
Many thanks Jane, as always!

She was given meds for coccidia - not sure its the same as hepatic coccidia - but it did nothing to help her.

I have to add that it's been only 3 days since I started her on panacur on Monday and she has already put on 40g! Still leaving caecotrophs in the morning, but somewhat less than before...

Now hoping Leo doesnt start falling ill too. Should I start him on panacur too?
 
Thumper98 said:
Many thanks Jane, as always!

She was given meds for coccidia - not sure its the same as hepatic coccidia - but it did nothing to help her.

I have to add that it's been only 3 days since I started her on panacur on Monday and she has already put on 40g! Still leaving caecotrophs in the morning, but somewhat less than before...

Now hoping Leo doesnt start falling ill too. Should I start him on panacur too?
Click to expand...

My Vet advises that all in contact Rabbits should be treated with Panacur BUT you need to check with your own Vet about what you should do xx
 
As the EC spores are excreted in urine, it is important to thoroughly clean and disinfect (eg with bleach or Virkon S) anything that has had contact (eg floors, bowls, toys, bedding). This should be done on days 21 and 28 of treatment. This helps to stop reinfection via contact and breaks the lifecycle of the organism.
 
Shimmer said:
As the EC spores are excreted in urine, it is important to thoroughly clean and disinfect (eg with bleach or Virkon S) anything that has had contact (eg floors, bowls, toys, bedding). This should be done on days 21 and 28 of treatment. This helps to stop reinfection via contact and breaks the lifecycle of the organism.
Click to expand...


I agree :)

A 1% bleach solution is adequate so long as it is held in contact for a minimum of 30 seconds.
 
Thumper98 said:
Many thanks Jane, as always!

She was given meds for coccidia - not sure its the same as hepatic coccidia - but it did nothing to help her.

I have to add that it's been only 3 days since I started her on panacur on Monday and she has already put on 40g! Still leaving caecotrophs in the morning, but somewhat less than before...

Now hoping Leo doesnt start falling ill too. Should I start him on panacur too?
Click to expand...


Always good to begin a course of Panacur if EC is suspected.
28 days and other rabbits in contact should be treated too.
 
MightyMax said:
I agree :)

A 1% bleach solution is adequate so long as it is held in contact for a minimum of 30 seconds.
Click to expand...

Thanks everyone :wave:

I've never cleaned out my bunnies' area with bleach before, usually using normal cleaning solutions for the floor and trays etc. So I've done so research and it seems I am supposed to put one part bleach and 5 parts water and mix into a solution?

I have to admit, i am pretty apprehensive about this because i dont want the bleach or the fumes to hurt them. It's a strong chemical and I've always stayed away from such things. I know i have to disinfect though!

Can someone pls help with step by step of what they do to disinfect? I feel quite silly asking but... I'd rather be safe.... :oops:
 
To disinfect anything hard (bowls, trays, etc) - clean them as normal (soap and water) to remove visible dirt, then leave them soaking in a bucket of bleach solution (I would leave for at least 10 - 30 mins), then allow them to drain and air dry - preferably in sunshine (or outside) as the UV will also help (and you are not re-contaminating them with a drying cloth). Chlorine dissipates quite quickly and is deactivated by organic matter (hence the need for a pre-clean).

For hard surfaces, clean with soap and water, then wipe down with the bleach or Virkon solution and allow to dry naturally. I tend to slosh on more than is really needed so it gets into any crevices, and mop up any excess at the end.

Any soft stuff /fabrics - wash or soak in a disinfectant. Things like carpet could be steam cleaned or shampoo with Virkon in the shampoo mix. Virkon S can also be used in the washing machine so clothes, cloths, fleece bedding etc can be washed.

You can buy Virkon S as single sachets or small quantities of tablets online (eg Amazon). It isn't as destructive to fabrics as bleach. You can use it as a disinfectant soak and you can make up a spray bottle for daily use. It smells slightly lemony and is pink.

The important thing with any disinfection is to get the full (minimum) contact time at the right concentration, and to pre-clean everything so it can actually contact all the item properly - bugs / spores can hide behind bits of dirt / organic matter, and it will reduce the effectiveness of the disinfectant.
 
Thumper98 said:
Thanks everyone :wave:

I've never cleaned out my bunnies' area with bleach before, usually using normal cleaning solutions for the floor and trays etc. So I've done so research and it seems I am supposed to put one part bleach and 5 parts water and mix into a solution?

I have to admit, i am pretty apprehensive about this because i dont want the bleach or the fumes to hurt them. It's a strong chemical and I've always stayed away from such things. I know i have to disinfect though!

Can someone pls help with step by step of what they do to disinfect? I feel quite silly asking but... I'd rather be safe.... :oops:
Click to expand...


You're welcome :)

I don't know where you read that it's 5 parts bleach solution?

The parasite is, however, easily killed with contact with bleach 1-10% for a minimum of 30 seconds.
https://www.dechra.co.uk/therapy-ar...cs-antifungals/disease-information/e-cuniculi

Some vets recommend using Anigene, if you're not comfortable with bleach.


By the way, sorry if this has already been mentioned, but when E.C. is suspected, Metacam is used to control the inflammatory response as the E.C. spores erupt into organ tissue, as this can cause longer term damage. It can also make the clinical symptoms of the condition worse. But all of this needs to be weighed up against the possible side effects of the NSAID, which can include compromising the kidneys.
 
My rabbit Nancy was diagnosed with EC earlier this year, presenting with urinary tract problems. She tested positive for a urine infection and although the antibiotics cleared the infection she remained incontinent and was then tested for EC and treated with Panacur. Blood tests showed her kidney function to be normal so she was then started on Metacam too.

Her companion Will was also treated and I used Anigene to disinfect.

Hope you find out what is wrong with your bun.x
 
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