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Indoor bunnies, UV light

This is one I've looked into a few times over the years with indoor piggies. I've always been very iffy about it, mainly because that you'd have to have the light very close to them to do anything, and I would worry particularly about eyes. :?
 
I never have. Esme and Tink recently passed at 10 -11 years with very few health problems over the years. Both were house rabbits with no outside time. I'd need a lot of convincing that it was beneficial.
 
I really don't think that its necessary for a rabbit - but I could be wrong.

to begin with many people don't have a UV lamp for their indoor rabbits, or supplement with vitamin D supplies. if this was a serious issue we'd likely hear more about it, or people with strict indoor rabbits would be reporting problems. I don't think I've ever heard anything of the sort, and if I have they're deficient in a lot of vitamins and not just D.

which then moves onto the next part of it - diet. a lot of the time for small furries, or rabbits, their diet provides everything they need as long as its good quality, and I'd even argue as long as its a pellet. almost all animals pick and chose from museli style foods, so they don't get a well balanced diet. its why I've moved all my small furries be it gerbils or hamsters, onto a pellet as they pick and choose an awful lot and I worry about them.

many people also offer veggies to their bunnies, which are often packed full of vitamins.

and then if you do (or don't) offer fresh or dried forage (assortments of leaves, twigs etc) would also (I expect) add some sort of nutritional value too.

I actually posed a similar question to a vet nurse online, via the FB UK rabbit group, her name is Jo Hinde. I asked whether due to being indoor rabbits if Luna needed any vitamin supplements especially with vitamin D. she said no, as its unnecessary, and a good balanced diet will offer everything she needs. offering vitamin D supplements or UV lamps would offer more harm than help, especially where not needed for a rabbit.

another point that was made on this forum by SarahP I think it was, on the topic of the burgess indoor food, is that rabbits are dawn and dusk animals anyhow. pet rabbits still hold this value, being more active around dawn and dusk. indoor rabbits still hold this too, even with the lighting on in the house. so either way, wildies aren't exactly getting the sun down on them either. while they *may* be active during the day, mostly not. so I would then presume that they're getting it from their diet.

a wildies diet isn't too different from a pet rabbits diet, and the pellet makes up for all their vitamins & so fourth that they need.

I think I would worry without a clear reasoning for it, such as a rabbit having bone issues or being vitamin D deficient, that you'd be doing more harm than help tbh.

I too would also worry about the affect on their eyes as it would have to be very close to really do anything. it might mess up their internal body clock also.
 
also, having read the link your vet gave you many times to make sure I am not being stupid, but also I'm tired....

I don't see any sort of conclusive evidence, or answer, in the link that was given. it really feels more like a speculation article or an article that is jumping to conclusions. "these small furries don't go outside so they must be vitamin D deficient!" I'm not sure how much I would trust it or go with its "advice".

I would prefer to see an article with actual evidence with studies for rabbits saying this is this & so fourth. in indoor rabbits we noticed they had this or were more likely to have this. the article feels like a whole lot of ramble just trying to prove its point and look well informed because its multiple paragraphs.

& as I said, if this was a serious issue I'd expect to see more covering it. be it other vet articles, news articles, the RWAF..instead silence. especially with the RWAF as usually they are the ones paving ways for rabbit welfare, and on top of all the latest vet news so to speak. if anybody was concerned, I'd expect it to be them.

I also haven't heard anybody really saying ever that rats, degus, gerbils etc need a UV lamp, nor have any of my gerbils seemed unwell due to a vitamin D deficiency, they've lived old and healthy lives.

the article also seems very reluctant almost to say what animals don't need a UV lamp...for instance for a hamster it would be pretty pointless and then they'd just want to spend all of their day inside their burrows. while pet hamsters are sometimes more willing to come out to greet their owner, they're still mostly active at night. there's just a quick mentioning of it, and continuing onto the next bit so that there is no counter argument, or thought about it.

the article provides any sort of evidence, or even vet based evidence at all. it just really feels like its jumping to conclusions. its not giving me any reasons as to why a rabbit, or any animal, would really need it. the only reasoning that I am reading is that animals need vitamin D (no duh). just trying to ramble to prove a point without any real thought I suppose.

perhaps I am too cynical however.
 
Also looks to be written by a manufacturer of the lamps so maybe a pinch of salt needed.
 
I honestly don't think anyone really knows at this point. I find it fascinating, but still very lacking on actual facts.

But animals that are nocturnal, like mice and hamsters, really can't need sunlight.
 
Definitely take it with a pinch of salt and as Elena says, the manufacturer is promoting this article. To get benefit from any uvb light it has to be fairly close to the animal. For example, my bearded dragon's uv is useless to him if more than 12 -18 inches away. Don't see how this could be safely possible with rabbits. x
 
I think UV lights where mentioned in a previous rabbiting on rwaf magazine. Could be wrong though!

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A big thank you to you all, please can I quote you back to my vets or even the manufacturer - like eveybun says this is very interesting at the least and something I should consider at the most. Thank you again
 
Not sure any of us know anything though! :lol: Might give you a few specific things to ask the vet about though, I hope. I'll be so interested to hear what is said.
 
I’ve seen about this before, it can help with vitamin D and I want to say metabolising vitamin C but that last bit might be slightly off.

I have one I bought for £12 from Aldi because I get seasonal affective disorder and this year is particularly bad. You can adjust the brightness, for people you need at least half an hour of it on, but this one will automatically turn off after an hour which is useful (that can be changed).
I haven’t had the buns around since I bought it (they have been in a bonding room upstairs the last two months) but o can say as soon as it’s on my two cats come over to it like a pair of moths! Lol.
If it’s instinct maybe because it’s darker days now I do t know but they do t do it with lamps...

I’d be interested after our rabbits are bonded, to see if they go to the light box too!
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I'm sure someone's doing a study about it somewhere, spec. on house rabbits... Can't remember if vitD helps with vitC but it's certainly beneficial with calcium. Give me a mo...

GOT IT! Done a study is more accurate: this is a sumary-type laypersons' article, reference to the journal article at the bottom. https://www.petful.com/pet-health/vitamin-d-deficiency-rabbits/

Given that humans don't get enough UV and therefore vitamin D in Britain for about 6-7 months, I expect our rabbits' needs are likely covered by their pellets and other dietary intake :)
 
I'm sure someone's doing a study about it somewhere, spec. on house rabbits... Can't remember if vitD helps with vitC but it's certainly beneficial with calcium. Give me a mo...

GOT IT! Done a study is more accurate: this is a sumary-type laypersons' article, reference to the journal article at the bottom. https://www.petful.com/pet-health/vitamin-d-deficiency-rabbits/

Given that humans don't get enough UV and therefore vitamin D in Britain for about 6-7 months, I expect our rabbits' needs are likely covered by their pellets and other dietary intake :)

Oooh that’s interesting to read, love a good study!

I definitely think when the boys are home and bonded happily again in a month or two, I will expose them to my light box and see if like my cars they are drawn to using it.

I too thought pellets had a boost of vitamins to help, but then again is it enough for indoor buns? Because unlike cat food, there’s (to my knowledge) no “indoor” “outdoor” varieties of pellets for their differing needs.

All very interesting :)


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there is an indoor brand of pellet, brought out by Burgess. it has added vitamin D. its also very high in fibre (40%) so I think it might be the highest fibre pellet out there at the moment. but I'm not sure as I don't remember all of the fibres on rabbit pellets :lol: it is however more expensive and doesn't come in larger packets. so for those with a lot of rabbits, or wanting to save buying in bulk, its not an option sadly.
https://shop.burgesspetcare.com/rabbit/food/Excel-Indoor-Rabbit-Nuggets/62

I'm not too sure how much vitamins are, but tbh the indoor rabbit doesn't really have that much vitamin D more it would seem. but I fully raise my hands in the air as I don't really understand vitamins, and I am purely looking at numbers.
indoor burgess rabbit: Vitamin D3 (cholecalciferol)(3a671) 3,500 iu/kg
original burgess rabbit: Vitamin D3 (cholecalciferol) (E671) 2,000 iu/kg

it would seem per KG that it has 3500 iu (whatever that is lol) of vitamin D..but the thing is is that pellet makes up such a small amount of a rabbits diet, that I'm not entirely sure how beneficial it is. its going to take a long time to get to 1 KG of pellet with what most rabbits have. many have a tablespoon of pellet (if that). I doubt that its more than 5g for some pellets when it comes to weight. I just don't know how beneficial it would be with how little they actually have.

the link you gave is interesting Kelet, but I'd really like to see the study itself, like the data sheets, which doesn't seem to be linked back to. or I can't find it, just a reference. its just "a study" with no numbers or actual evidence. I'm not one to take what I read, I like actual facts. but I'm also very stubborn and skeptical :D I will have to give it a read through later, and find the actual study to take a look at.

I know my parents cat is very interested in a lamp my dad has, its a bright UV bulb and he uses it for reading sometimes too. but I personally think that the cat is purely interested in it for the heat it admits, hence why we call it a little heat lamp. I'm not sure he's doing it that its good for him, as he only moves after its warmed up and is spitting out heat :lol:
 
there is an indoor brand of pellet, brought out by Burgess. it has added vitamin D. its also very high in fibre (40%) so I think it might be the highest fibre pellet out there at the moment. but I'm not sure as I don't remember all of the fibres on rabbit pellets [emoji38] it is however more expensive and doesn't come in larger packets. so for those with a lot of rabbits, or wanting to save buying in bulk, its not an option sadly.
https://shop.burgesspetcare.com/rabbit/food/Excel-Indoor-Rabbit-Nuggets/62

I'm not too sure how much vitamins are, but tbh the indoor rabbit doesn't really have that much vitamin D more it would seem. but I fully raise my hands in the air as I don't really understand vitamins, and I am purely looking at numbers.
indoor burgess rabbit: Vitamin D3 (cholecalciferol)(3a671) 3,500 iu/kg
original burgess rabbit: Vitamin D3 (cholecalciferol) (E671) 2,000 iu/kg

it would seem per KG that it has 3500 iu (whatever that is lol) of vitamin D..but the thing is is that pellet makes up such a small amount of a rabbits diet, that I'm not entirely sure how beneficial it is. its going to take a long time to get to 1 KG of pellet with what most rabbits have. many have a tablespoon of pellet (if that). I doubt that its more than 5g for some pellets when it comes to weight. I just don't know how beneficial it would be with how little they actually have.

the link you gave is interesting Kelet, but I'd really like to see the study itself, like the data sheets, which doesn't seem to be linked back to. or I can't find it, just a reference. its just "a study" with no numbers or actual evidence. I'm not one to take what I read, I like actual facts. but I'm also very stubborn and skeptical :D I will have to give it a read through later, and find the actual study to take a look at.

I know my parents cat is very interested in a lamp my dad has, its a bright UV bulb and he uses it for reading sometimes too. but I personally think that the cat is purely interested in it for the heat it admits, hence why we call it a little heat lamp. I'm not sure he's doing it that its good for him, as he only moves after its warmed up and is spitting out heat [emoji38]
Waaittt it's 40% fibre? Actual fibre not their beneficial fibre BS? [emoji38] If so I know what I'm buying next [emoji38]

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