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Recovery dose

Angie B

Wise Old Thumper
You'd think I should know this by now, but still.

Been to the vet as Thumper isn't well. She's had metacam this morning, I declined vetergesic as she wasn't well on it last time - off her face for about 10hrs! - so all the vet could really do was give emipred as she said that all of their other pain relief was opiate based so to avoid Thumps having another bad reaction, she'd rather avoid any more, which is fair enough.

On vet advice I gave Thumper some Recovery when I got home, managed to get 10ml in, well just under probably judging what went on the floor and over my brand new jumper :roll: my fault! That was at 2.30. When shall I give her some more if she doesn't start to eat, and how much?

Thanks.

I'm asking because normally I've only usually given her about 3 or 4ml. Ta.
 
I normally do 15 ml every 4 hours roughly, in the past my vet said to do that ever 2 hours, so I think it depends tbh, you could ring up your vet and ask what they suggest? It probably depends on the weight of the bun, how much and how frequently it'd be needed.

Hope she feels better soon :)

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Thank you, Graciee. I did consider ringing the vet, I guess I should I suppose!

That's not too bad though, 15ml every 4 hours, seems reasonable that I gave her 10. She's 2.4kg, not eaten at all today, still trembling a bit but that's probably because she's seen me (!), still laying flat so very uncomfy in her stomach. Guts are noisy though.

I'm toying with the idea of going back and getting a shot of vetergesic ... I just don't know. I don't want her in pain and if I'm feeding her then she will be eating ... I just don't know what to do. I don't keep the old records so can't for the life of me think what other pain relief they've given her, and I don't wish to upset the vet (she's new) by demanding she looks at her other records for subcutaneous pain relief as she was fine with that. But then if it worked ...
 
Poor Thumper [emoji17] I hope she’s feeling better soon.

I usually go with 15mls every three hours when my buns have had stasis and they’re not eating anything at all. I do 15mls every four hours if I’ve seen them picking at bits of food.


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honestly it seems to vary from what vet to vet will tell you. it can also depend on the severity of the stasis. full blown stasis I tended to feed more often & more of it, early stasis was less and less often so they eat themselves.

the important thing is not to feed too much as she may then not eat by herself as she is full.

anyway, for me I would usually do 10-15ml every 1-2 hours if they are not eating at all. every 3-4 hours if they're picking at bits or eating a little bit.

if Thumper will, try seeing if she will eat out of the bowl for herself.

I hope she improves soon x
 
Hi, the dose is 50ml/kg in a 24hr period. I generally split into five feeds of 10ml/kg. For example Iona weighs 1.8kg so would have 5 feeds of 18ml

This is what the Edinburgh Vet School have advised whenever I’ve done CPD from them and it’s what we use in practice. We also give an 8hr rest period overnight with no hands on interference unless necessary! Hope this helps!
 
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My rabbits have only had Metacam when they haven't been eating, which is an NSAID. If you gave her a full dose this morning, then I would have thought she is still getting pain relief from that. I don't think they have ever had Vetergesic.

Sending her lots of vibes. I hope she starts eating again by herself soon.
 
Thank you all very much :)

I ended up taking her back to the vet as oddly enough the vet rang to alter tomorrow's follow-up appointment (just in case she still wasn't well). I asked her about the Recovery dose and she said another 4ml in a couple of hours would be fine, however she was very concerned that Thumper hadn't picked up after having the emipred (sp?) so took her back in to have her glucose level checked. It was quite high at 19 so they administered fluids via a drip direct into her ear and a half dose of vetergesic (Thumps doesn't cope well with pain hence the extra help) even though she had metacam earlier on and that should still be working - though I fully agree with you, Omi that it will still be in her system, but the vet could see she was still in a lot of pain and shaking as well.

She's not out of the woods by any stretch, still lying flat on her stomach, very lethargic and I can tell by looking at her face that she's a very, very sad little bunny.

I just hope that she doesn't have to go to the out of hours vet like she normally does, but only time will tell. It's almost 7pm, I'll give her until 10 and then off we pop to the OOH!
 
there is an argument due to a rabbits fast metabolism, metacam is out of the system in 12 hours. but vets still heavily argue this so there doesn't seem to be any conclusive outcome to it. some rabbit savvy vets say every 12 hours, others still say once a day. its confusing!
 
Thank you all very much :)

I ended up taking her back to the vet as oddly enough the vet rang to alter tomorrow's follow-up appointment (just in case she still wasn't well). I asked her about the Recovery dose and she said another 4ml in a couple of hours would be fine, however she was very concerned that Thumper hadn't picked up after having the emipred (sp?) so took her back in to have her glucose level checked. It was quite high at 19 so they administered fluids via a drip direct into her ear and a half dose of vetergesic (Thumps doesn't cope well with pain hence the extra help) even though she had metacam earlier on and that should still be working - though I fully agree with you, Omi that it will still be in her system, but the vet could see she was still in a lot of pain and shaking as well.

She's not out of the woods by any stretch, still lying flat on her stomach, very lethargic and I can tell by looking at her face that she's a very, very sad little bunny.

I just hope that she doesn't have to go to the out of hours vet like she normally does, but only time will tell. It's almost 7pm, I'll give her until 10 and then off we pop to the OOH!



Angie I'm so sorry not to have seen this sooner. I've only just managed to log on again.

How's she doing now?

As a very rough guide, as to the amount to be syringe fed I would say 10ml per kg every couple of hours

Vetergesic - your vet was very considerate to how she's reacted before, and I hope this gets her out of pain.

Emeprid can be given, along with cisapride if there's no blockage suspected, and also RANITIDINE - which is very important not only for gut motility but also to protect the stomach of a rabbit who isn't eating properly and is on NSAIDs.

I really hope you don't need the OOH vets. Poor little thing x
 
Aww thanks MM. She was snoozing in the dirty laundry about 20 minutes ago, apparently :lol: it's only Niamh's bed linen so not too bad!

I hope that after her little nap she feels better but of course when she sees me she starts quivering as she doesn't know what I'm going to do, although of course it's only for the good - though she doesn't realise that, she only sees it as being manhandled and force-fed yakky stuff :(.

There is a lot of controversy over dosing of metacam, but my vets are adamant only once per day and as she only had the metacam this morning at 10am I wouldn't give her anymore yet anyway. Our vets have also stated it's only regulated to be given to rabbits once per day, so if anything happened to a rabbit which had 2 full doses in less than 24hrs, the owner wouldn't have a leg to stand on in relation to suing the vet for overdosing, I think is what she was trying to say, so I'm going to stick with the once every 24hrs - it's always been fine for her in the past and at 7yrs old and having had stasis now for the past 5 years I'm not going to change it. Besides, there are other painkillers out there which can be used alongside it. My vet wouldn't let me anyway!

I did discover today that Thumper has in fact had vetergesic before, several times in fact, and in higher doses than when she had it in September - and yet didn't react to it like she did in September, which is really weird, even the vet said that was strange, so that's why she suggested the half dose, which also gives the OOH vet an opportunity to perhaps give her the other half if he/she thinks fit if we need to go later on. Which, given it's now 9.20 and Thumps is still looking dull, might be on the cards.

However, of course, Thumper is currently partially stoned :lol: which of course will affect how she is with eating/drinking and of course the fact that all she wants to do is ... sleep.

So I actually, for once, am not sure what to do. Taking her to the OOH may help in that she can have another shot of emeprid, ranitadine, but that's probably it. (I think I've got both of those at home in oral versions! Not that I would give orally without speaking to a vet first of course). But whether she actually needs any more pain relief I'm at a loss. The other half of the vetergesic will simply knock her out altogether I think, unless the OOH has anything different, but the last time we went he declined to give her any, said she'd had enough with the metacam and the vetergesic, although the latter should have worn off by the time we went to the OOH. He was loathe to give her any more of that given it knocked her sideways. If we do go tonight though the vetergesic will still be in her system.

I'm rambling. I need to go relax for a bit.

I won't update until tomorrow - my eyes need to get off the PC!

But thank you for your thoughts and good wishes :) x
 
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How's Thumper this morning? I hope you didn't have to go to the OOH.

Me too

With regards to how much to syringe feed, it depends on the specific circumstances. Once a Vet has ruled out a gastrointestinal obstruction and has instrudted me to syringe feed I start off with 10ml/kg every couple of hours, as mentioned by our well qualified HMacU2

Hi, the dose is 50ml/kg in a 24hr period. I generally split into five feeds of 10ml/kg. For example Iona weighs 1.8kg so would have 5 feeds of 18ml

This is what the Edinburgh Vet School have advised whenever I’ve done CPD from them and it’s what we use in practice. We also give an 8hr rest period overnight with no hands on interference unless necessary! Hope this helps!

If after medication/fluid therapy and 2-3 syringe feeds there has been no fecal output and Bunny is still in obvious discomfort I seek further Veterinary advice. If there were to continue to be syringe feeds going in and nothing coming out it is important to regularly assess gut sounds/palpate abdomen to check for any signs of bloating etc. Obviously should bloating become an issue syringe feeds could do more harm than good.

Finally, if a Bunny is receiving an opiate analgesic eg Vetergesic then extra care needs to be taken when syringe feeding. Bunny may be very drowsy, increasing the risk of them aspirating a feed.

Topping up the vibes for Thumper. Is the Vet going to run any diagnostics if she has not significantly improved overnight ?
 
Hello all!

Thank you for your good wishes, thoughts and messages xx

sorry not been on earlier but had to take Niamh to work and decided to eat out as a treat to myself as been working hard and worked all last weekend, and stressy day yesterday so stuff it, ate out :).

Well, it took a full 12 hours :( BUT at roughly 10pm last night, Thumper decided to get better :love: it was like flicking a switch. One moment she was half asleep, off her face on opiates, not very well, and the next she was up and about, munching on hay and drinking water! Adrian and I did discuss taking her to the OOH because at 8.30/9 she still was lethargic etc but Adrian pointed out she was off her ... face *sniggers* on stiff drugs and basically needed to sleep them off. Plus she couldn't really have any more pain relief, and she'd already had gut stimulant etc so there was not a lot the OOH could do. And she was no longer shaking, which was a good sign. So we played it by ear and left her. And he was right :thumb: because as I say, my daughter went to check on her at 10 and then came to me and said "Thumper's better, she's eating". Yaay!

I did however forget to cancel her 11.45am follow up appointment at the vet this morning though, I was mortified! I realised at 11.55 and phoned them as I was walking through town, deeply repeatedly apologetic, and ensured that they thanked the vet I saw last night for all her help - was assured my message would be passed on (and to the first vet too).

So yep, she's back to her normal self! The vet last night put it down to the temperature suddenly dropping on Thursday night, gone from quite mild to it froze to the point Adrian had to scrape the car windows when he left for work, and Thumper being rather slim, didn't like it. Coco, who's ... fat, didn't notice!

They're indoors again tonight too simply because of the fireworks this weekend.

Phew!

Ruddy rabbits :lol:
 
Hello all!

Thank you for your good wishes, thoughts and messages xx

sorry not been on earlier but had to take Niamh to work and decided to eat out as a treat to myself as been working hard and worked all last weekend, and stressy day yesterday so stuff it, ate out :).

Well, it took a full 12 hours :( BUT at roughly 10pm last night, Thumper decided to get better :love: it was like flicking a switch. One moment she was half asleep, off her face on opiates, not very well, and the next she was up and about, munching on hay and drinking water! Adrian and I did discuss taking her to the OOH because at 8.30/9 she still was lethargic etc but Adrian pointed out she was off her ... face *sniggers* on stiff drugs and basically needed to sleep them off. Plus she couldn't really have any more pain relief, and she'd already had gut stimulant etc so there was not a lot the OOH could do. And she was no longer shaking, which was a good sign. So we played it by ear and left her. And he was right :thumb: because as I say, my daughter went to check on her at 10 and then came to me and said "Thumper's better, she's eating". Yaay!

I did however forget to cancel her 11.45am follow up appointment at the vet this morning though, I was mortified! I realised at 11.55 and phoned them as I was walking through town, deeply repeatedly apologetic, and ensured that they thanked the vet I saw last night for all her help - was assured my message would be passed on (and to the first vet too).

So yep, she's back to her normal self! The vet last night put it down to the temperature suddenly dropping on Thursday night, gone from quite mild to it froze to the point Adrian had to scrape the car windows when he left for work, and Thumper being rather slim, didn't like it. Coco, who's ... fat, didn't notice!

They're indoors again tonight too simply because of the fireworks this weekend.

Phew!

Ruddy rabbits :lol:


Oh Angie, thanks for posting!

You've had a time of it - so glad things are getting back to normal and that you managed to treat yourself along the way :)
 
I’m so glad that she is feeling better:thumb: to think that pets are supposed to be stress relieving :roll::lol:
 
Thank you everyone xx

Thanks for that tip, Jane, I hadn't thought about the possibility of aspirating a feed when off her face on opiates :oops:, but I will now bear that in mind, thank you. Luckily, as Thumper is nice and slim, any bloating would be obvious, so again, one to bear in mind to look for.

It's just unfortunate that she is seemingly taking longer to get over these bouts as she ages - 12hrs yesterday and given I didn't think she was "too bad" in the morning she evidently went downhill quite quick despite having had the full dose of metacam as soon as I found her and received veterinary assistance within 3 hours after that because the metacam had had no effect - in fact, by that point she had deteriorated because she was intermittently shaking by then. Poor bun :( .

But she's a happy bun today ... well not at the moment, neither of them are. They're bored brainless as they're in the utility room and they hate it, there's nothing to do. They have their pellets which they picked up the bowls and tossed them instead of eating them, even Coco who hoovers up everything isn't very interested :lol:. They've had some - I'm not worried - they're just fed up of being indoors. But when the fireworks go off later, I'll feel justified! And if/when I find rocket sticks in the garden as I have in the past ... oh! a bang! ... even more justified because I've seen it in the news where ... well, you know :cry:. So better to be safe and bored, than sorry. They'll settle.
 
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