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Kidney disease help. Treatments and advice please

rebeccalyn732

Young Bun
Hi everyone, new here and was advised to come here for some answers.
My 6 and a half year old baby girl has just been diagnosed with kidney disease.
My vet has advised me that there is no cure, but we can only prolong the hard decision.
she has given my rabbit 12-18 months until she passes.
She is on penicillin twice a week now.

I originally had gone to the vet for an abscess at the base of her ear,
but when we did a urine test it came back with high numbers of protein.

I'm really stuck on what to do, i feel like it is my fault.
i feel like i should have noticed the symptoms
Her history is when she was 2 she had EC for a few months which we treated and she only has a slight head tilt left from it.
I was just wondering if anyone could give me extra information, advice or any treatments they have tried.

Thanks everyone
 
Hi everyone, new here and was advised to come here for some answers.
My 6 and a half year old baby girl has just been diagnosed with kidney disease.
My vet has advised me that there is no cure, but we can only prolong the hard decision.
she has given my rabbit 12-18 months until she passes.
She is on penicillin twice a week now.

I originally had gone to the vet for an abscess at the base of her ear,
but when we did a urine test it came back with high numbers of protein.

I'm really stuck on what to do, i feel like it is my fault.
i feel like i should have noticed the symptoms
Her history is when she was 2 she had EC for a few months which we treated and she only has a slight head tilt left from it.
I was just wondering if anyone could give me extra information, advice or any treatments they have tried.

Thanks everyone

Hello

Did the Vet also run a full blood profile to assess her renal function ? It is unusual to base a diagnosis on just a urine test.

One of the consequences of EC can be renal damage, but again this would need to be established by blood tests, not just a urine test.

If your Rabbit does have chronic renal failure, then whilst there is no cure there are treatments that can extend life expectancy and enable the Rabbit to feel well within themselves. Treatments include both medication and dietary modification.

These links may be useful to read :

http://news.vet.tufts.edu/2016/01/diagnosing-renal-disease-in-rabbits-clinical-case-challenge/

http://wildpro.twycrosszoo.org/S/00dis/Miscellaneous/ChronicRenalLagomorph.htm

http://www.mayowvets.co.uk/pet-factsheets/Factsheets/Otherpets/24_290520.shtml
 
She did a full blood test.. not sure if it was specific to the renal failure.
the blood test came back all clear.

She is going to do a ct scan and an ultra sound in a few weeks.
 
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Rebecca, the scan I gave you, it did briefly mentioned EC on it. You can read thru page 1 & 2 and see the ref. on EC
 
can you post the result of the blood test here? just type it out or scan it and use a free JPG upload service

I forgot to tell you that your vet, due to liability and legal reason, has to tell you the worst case scenario
 
yeah, but she said the blood came back clear.
Now there is risk that her abscess will continue to grow because the vet won't want to do the surgery if her kidneys are bad under ultra sound and ct
 
Hello

Did the Vet also run a full blood profile to assess her renal function ? It is unusual to base a diagnosis on just a urine test.

One of the consequences of EC can be renal damage, but again this would need to be established by blood tests, not just a urine test.

If your Rabbit does have chronic renal failure, then whilst there is no cure there are treatments that can extend life expectancy and enable the Rabbit to feel well within themselves. Treatments include both medication and dietary modification.

These links may be useful to read :

http://news.vet.tufts.edu/2016/01/diagnosing-renal-disease-in-rabbits-clinical-case-challenge/

http://wildpro.twycrosszoo.org/S/00dis/Miscellaneous/ChronicRenalLagomorph.htm

http://www.mayowvets.co.uk/pet-factsheets/Factsheets/Otherpets/24_290520.shtml

Jane gave you good advice.

May you and your girl have lots more quality time together.
 
These are her results
9632bc2706b5604fa5f7480bd4150d55.jpg
9517d2f49a88e997a94453faa9bef073.jpg


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These are her results
9632bc2706b5604fa5f7480bd4150d55.jpg
9517d2f49a88e997a94453faa9bef073.jpg


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Hi again

Whilst there are some qualified Vets who read this forum they are unable to post comments on specific cases/test results etc. The rest of us are not qualified to comment on what the results may mean, we can only give an opinion from a lay-persons perspective.

My unqualified thoughts are that I cant see anything on those results that indicate renal failure :?

Is your Rabbit displaying any clinical symptoms of renal problems ? Drinking and weeing a lot more than normal ? Incontinence ? Losing weight ?

Does your Bunny ever have 'sludgy' urine ? ( given the slightly raised calcium level in the results).

Personally I would be looking at seeking a second opinion from a Rabbit Specialist Vet

Traces of protein and glucose can be a normal finding in Rabbit urinalysis :

http://www.greendale.co.uk/rabbit_urinalysis.html

So it would depend on how high the protein level was in the sample your Vet tested and also what the Specific Gravity was (how dilute the wee was)

Also, some medications can cause raised protein levels in urine- eg Non Steroidal Anti Inflammatory drugs such as Meloxicam and occasionally some antibiotics including Penicillin.
 
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Hi again

Whilst there are some qualified Vets who read this forum they are unable to post comments on specific cases/test results etc. The rest of us are not qualified to comment on what the results may mean, we can only give an opinion from a lay-persons perspective.

My unqualified thoughts are that I cant see anything on those results that indicate renal failure :?

Is your Rabbit displaying any clinical symptoms of renal problems ? Drinking and weeing a lot more than normal ? Incontinence ? Losing weight ?

Does your Bunny ever have 'sludgy' urine ? ( given the slightly raised calcium level in the results).

Personally I would be looking at seeking a second opinion from a Rabbit Specialist Vet

Traces of protein and glucose can be a normal finding in Rabbit urinalysis :

http://www.greendale.co.uk/rabbit_urinalysis.html

So it would depend on how high the protein level was in the sample your Vet tested and also what the Specific Gravity was (how dilute the wee was)

Also, some medications can cause raised protein levels in urine- eg Non Steroidal Anti Inflammatory drugs such as Meloxicam and occasionally some antibiotics including Penicillin.
These were peppers protein levels - 0.78, normal is <0.4

I didnt know that about the penicillin
Shes on that twice a week

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These were peppers protein levels - 0.78, normal is <0.4

I didnt know that about the penicillin
Shes on that twice a week

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She has been drinking a lot more and urinating a lot more. But her urine is not sludgy

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Rebeccaa:

I just want to rule out anything out of the ordinary:

if Pepper's hay is mostly brown, by itself, it WILL make him drink a lot more water and naturally urinate a lot. As long as that's NOT the case, then we can focus on the idea of kidney disease.

I also don't know any Calcium level about Australian hay, i.e., your Oaten hay. I do know bad hay like Alfalfa has high Ca, as I told you in the other thread.

So tell us from the beginning, what are the symptoms at the beginning that triggers you to do that urine test on Pepper in the first place?

Also, give us all the diet of Pepper, besides Oaten hay, Celery, Oxbow pellet, carrot, spinach, what else is there?

Further, based on his Sep. 3 photo, to be quite honest, it's a lot of green. All he needs is 1 type of green and a regular size carrot.

https://www.facebook.com/Pepperthewabbot/

He has that abscess back in Aug. 2018, any relation to the current issue? what did the vet say?
 
Rebeccaa:

I just want to rule out anything out of the ordinary:

if Pepper's hay is mostly brown, by itself, it WILL make him drink a lot more water and naturally urinate a lot. As long as that's NOT the case, then we can focus on the idea of kidney disease.

I also don't know any Calcium level about Australian hay, i.e., your Oaten hay. I do know bad hay like Alfalfa has high Ca, as I told you in the other thread.

So tell us from the beginning, what are the symptoms at the beginning that triggers you to do that urine test on Pepper in the first place?

Also, give us all the diet of Pepper, besides Oaten hay, Celery, Oxbow pellet, carrot, spinach, what else is there?

Further, based on his Sep. 3 photo, to be quite honest, it's a lot of green. All he needs is 1 type of green and a regular size carrot.

https://www.facebook.com/Pepperthewabbot/

He has that abscess back in Aug. 2018, any relation to the current issue? what did the vet say?
So the vet i was organially seeing didn't want to operate on pepper again. So i thought id go and get another opinion.
I went to the the rabbit specialists and she had asked if pepper had ever had any urine or blood tests or ct scans and i said no.
So she said shed do it to rule out any issues she might face going in to surgery again to remove this abscess that has grown back.

She gets oxbow pellets, greens and hay and thats all she gets.
She rarely gets carrots.
Her hay is quite green and our oaten hay is quite low in calcium.
Although kidney disease is meant to decrease her appetite, her appetite has not changed.
She drinks around half a liter or more a day.




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Okay I just want to clarify:

he has that abscess that grows back, so the vet do the pre-surgery test on blood / urine and discover un-intentionally the theory of kidney disease

Now, abscess and/or dental issues on lop's head area is very common because of this:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...alth/?tid=ss_fb-bottom&utm_term=.b7c1f6c24bab

but as it looks, it has nothing to do w/ kidney issues

now,

1) is his diet normal all these time, say from Aug. to today?

2) what is the color of his poos? is it dark or is it a golden yellowish color?

3) is his behaviour normal? say a few weeks after the abscess was removed to today? for e.g., does he hide in a dark corner? is he body shaking etc.? any abnormal behaviour

IF everything else checks out okay, then I have this preventive maintainence idea that is recommend by Dr. Harrison, his diet is the world no. 1 supplement for small animals. And it costs you $8 every 4 to 6 mth.
 
Last edited:
Okay I just want to clarify:

he has that abscess that grows back, so the vet do the pre-surgery test on blood / urine and discover un-intentionally the theory of kidney disease

Now, abscess and/or dental issues on lop's head area is very common because of this:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...alth/?tid=ss_fb-bottom&utm_term=.b7c1f6c24bab

but as it looks, it has nothing to do w/ kidney issues

now,

1) is his diet normal all these time, say from Aug. to today?

2) what is the color of his poos? is it dark or is it a golden yellowish color?

3) is his behaviour normal? say a few weeks after the abscess was removed to today? for e.g., does he hide in a dark corner? is he body shaking etc.? any abnormal behaviour

IF everything else checks out okay, then I have this preventive maintainence idea that is recommend by Dr. Harrison, his diet is the world no. 1 supplement for small animals. And it costs you $8 every 4 to 6 mth.
Its not dental issues.
Its her ear canal.
And her diet has been very similar since aug. Probably less greens though.
Some times id give her a little piece of vita weat crackers but she hasnt had any of those for a while.
She gets the oxbow treats, some times Apple's.
Her urine is a dark yellow
Her behaviour hasnt changed much at all, other than being a bit more affectionate but thats it.


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Its not dental issues.
Its her ear canal.
And her diet has been very similar since aug. Probably less greens though.
Some times id give her a little piece of vita weat crackers but she hasnt had any of those for a while.
She gets the oxbow treats, some times Apple's.
Her urine is a dark yellow
Her behaviour hasnt changed much at all, other than being a bit more affectionate but thats it.


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Her poos are light brownish

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Okay, so what you really have here, reminds me of some ultrasound I took a few mth. ago. I had some stomach pain, the doctor done some ultrasound photos, found nothing, but in the midst of those photo, they found something else that is minor but totally unrelated

Doing those blood test is normal pre-surgery. I personally don't prescribe to that theory because if the surgery needed to be done, then there is no choice 1 way or the other. If the surgery is not important, then sure, do the blood test is a wise precaution.

So in summary, you found a kidney issue that Pepper is drinking a lot of water. So let's assume that is really the case. But your vet also said there is 2 year to fix this.

So there are 2 things you can do:

1) w/ my rabbit specialist locally, the no. 1 diet for small animal supplement is this guy:

http://store.harrisonsbirdfoods.com/15-oz-ORGANIC-RED-PALM-FRUIT-OIL/productinfo/PFO/

The cost is inflated, don't buy it directly from him. But if you cut & paste the description of the text, and put it in the search engine, you'll find he's really selling this:

https://store.nutiva.com/products/organic-red-palm-oil

this is good for human and animals, only $6 for a big 32 oz jar. My vet has highly recommend this for my rabbits, and I have been giving this to my 2 buns and myself for years. Further, this product is certified to be Habitat Orangutan safe / friendly, meaning it didn't destroy any orangutan environment in the making of this product.

it's a very excellent product that should be given to rabbits w/ or without kidney problems

the idea behind this falls under the field of science called Nutrigenomics, (you are what you eat), in short, given proper diet, knowing you CANNOT alter your genes, you CAN alter the "Expression" of your genes.

The anti-oxidant inside will benefit Pepper. If you buy this, let me know, I'll give you more details on dosage and how to given this to human / animals, let me know

2) I have a few books on alternative medicine, I can upload to that acct. I told you, and eventhough they are meant for human, there are natural food that you can "wing" it for rabbits, for e.g., under Alternative treatment for kidney, from "Gale Group Encyclopedia of Alternative Medicine":

Supplementation with herbs that are blood cleansers
or blood purifiers is recommended. These herbs
strengthen the action of the liver and the kidneys, helping
with detoxification and excretion. Dandelion root
tincture (Taraxacum officinale) is recommended. Others
include burdock root (Arctium lappa), also known as
gobo, and can be purchased fresh at health food grocers
or in Asian markets. It can be used either raw or cooked
in salads, stir-fries, or other vegetable dishes. Burdock
root tincture can also be used. Red clover (Trifolium
pratense) makes a pleasant tea that can be consumed
throughout the day. Milk thistle seed (Silybum marianum)
can either be taken in tincture form or the seeds
can be ground up and eaten in combination with hot cereal,
granola, or other foods.

======================

If there is legitimate concern that you believe Pepper's kidney is in trouble, I would go to health food store, and see what kind of alternative preventive maintainence medicine is there for human on kidney, and try out a little bit for Pepper.

For e.g., using the above from Gale, you can get some Dandelion root, smashed it w/ a juicer, mix w/ some banana, and see if Pepper will eat it.

Let me know if you want to give this a go, if so, I can upload these ebooks tonight and you can download it, view these PDF, and search under the key word "kidney"
 
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