What does this mean?

I’m really worried about our lovely Molly. I’m not sure if it’s a behavioural issue or health, so I might post this in both sections of the forum. I hope that’s okay.

Our beloved Max died last week (8 days ago) He was only three, and it was really sudden. He was hopping about as usual on Thursday evening, and had died by tea time on Friday. We suspect it was gut stasis but don’t know for certain.

Molly and Max have been together since birth, and had a really strong bond, so she is extremely unhappy. We have already found a new companion for her, who we will collect next week.

Molly isn’t eating very much, isn’t moving around very much, and spends most of the time just sitting in one spot. We have given her loads of extra cuddles but she has never been the most affectionate of rabbits. She tolerates being stroked and picked up but unwillingly. When I pick her up now, she just sits in my arms rather than scrabbling to get down. I don’t know whether this is a sign of lethargy, or liking the cuddles more than she used to.

Then today, while sitting on my lap she suddenly did a massive wee. She has never urinated on me before, and as far as I know, only ever urinates in her litter tray. It was definitely a ‘release of urine’ rather than a spray - it all just ran down my legs It was yellow and didn’t smell. When I put her down, she hopped off, but didn’t run as though scared, or do a major heel-flick (and Molly loves a good heel-flick to indicate her disapproval of us )

After Max dying so suddenly I’m paranoid about Molly’s health. I took her to the vet two days ago for her vaccination, and the vet checked her over then and said she was fine, but that was two days ago and we all know how quickly they can go downhill

Was this a health issue? Just odd behaviour because she’s out of sorts? Or just her way of telling me she doesn’t want all these cuddles?

Sorry this is so long. Worried sick - I can’t bear to lose Molly too

MaxAndMolly said:

I’m really worried about our lovely Molly. I’m not sure if it’s a behavioural issue or health, so I might post this in both sections of the forum. I hope that’s okay.

Our beloved Max died last week (8 days ago) He was only three, and it was really sudden. He was hopping about as usual on Thursday evening, and had died by tea time on Friday. We suspect it was gut stasis but don’t know for certain.

Molly and Max have been together since birth, and had a really strong bond, so she is extremely unhappy. We have already found a new companion for her, who we will collect next week.

Molly isn’t eating very much, isn’t moving around very much, and spends most of the time just sitting in one spot. We have given her loads of extra cuddles but she has never been the most affectionate of rabbits. She tolerates being stroked and picked up but unwillingly. When I pick her up now, she just sits in my arms rather than scrabbling to get down. I don’t know whether this is a sign of lethargy, or liking the cuddles more than she used to.

Then today, while sitting on my lap she suddenly did a massive wee. She has never urinated on me before, and as far as I know, only ever urinates in her litter tray. It was definitely a ‘release of urine’ rather than a spray - it all just ran down my legs It was yellow and didn’t smell. When I put her down, she hopped off, but didn’t run as though scared, or do a major heel-flick (and Molly loves a good heel-flick to indicate her disapproval of us )

After Max dying so suddenly I’m paranoid about Molly’s health. I took her to the vet two days ago for her vaccination, and the vet checked her over then and said she was fine, but that was two days ago and we all know how quickly they can go downhill

Was this a health issue? Just odd behaviour because she’s out of sorts? Or just her way of telling me she doesn’t want all these cuddles?

Sorry this is so long. Worried sick - I can’t bear to lose Molly too

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I am very sorry that you lost Max last week. I am also very sorry that Molly is causing concern.

Has the reluctance to eat very much and the sitting in one spot been since she lost Max? If so and as the vet has checked her over just two days ago I would think that this is Molly grieving. A bereaved rabbit will sometimes display different behaviours after the loss of their bonded partner. The urinating on you doesn't altogether fit with that, but I think you would need to see other urinary issues to consider that it is significant.

However, I would keep a very close watch on her for the next 24 hours or so and if the behaviour still persists, I would maybe take her back to the vets for another examination. I think also you should consider postponing any attempt to bond her with the new rabbit until you and your vet are certain that this is not a health issue.

Sending you both lots of vibes. This doesn't sound as though it is going to be simple to establish a definite cause.

First of all, I am sorry that you lost Max and also for the fact that no-one replied to your previous thread; sometimes threads slip under the net.

Do you know what caused Max to RIP? I always worry when one rabbit from a group or pair suddenly dies for no obvious reason. ie was he fully vaccinated?

It sounds very much as though Molly is grieving and is lonely. If she has never been one to enjoy cuddles, urinating on you may be her way of reminding you! I'm no expert, though. I have, however, had a rabbit who became very isolated and 'remote' after the sudden loss of her long-term partner but perked up considerably when she was able to be bonded again.

You say you have found another rabbit: and I hope you managed to find a Rescue in your area.

Thank you so much for your replies.

Yes, the not eating and just sitting still are only since Max died. Normally she’s very greedy

We did wonder whether it’s too soon to attempt to bond her with another rabbit. I’m worried she might reject him for not being Max But in the end we decided that we just do it now, as she seems so desperately unhappy.

The new bunny is a rescue from the RSPCA. Male, younger than Molly, neutered and vaccinated. I’m ashamed to say that neither Max or Molly were vaccinated When we first got them, our vet advised us that vaccinations weren’t necessary as they wouldn’t come into contact with wild animals. They do spend a lot of time free-range the garden though Anyway, we have now realised that it is crucial that Molly is vaccinated. She had her first one two days ago, and is booked for her second in two weeks time.

Max didn’t have any injury, or wheezing, discharge etc. No blood round his mouth or nose when he died. It was eight days ago, so if it was contagious surely Molly would have gone by now? I have explained all of this to the RSPCA, who are happy for us to take Mars next week, after he’s had his second vaccination (they don’t want him to go outside before that).

MaxAndMolly said:

Thank you so much for your replies.

Yes, the not eating and just sitting still are only since Max died. Normally she’s very greedy ��

We did wonder whether it’s too soon to attempt to bond her with another rabbit. I’m worried she might reject him for not being Max ���� But in the end we decided that we just do it now, as she seems so desperately unhappy.

The new bunny is a rescue from the RSPCA. Male, younger than Molly, neutered and vaccinated. I’m ashamed to say that neither Max or Molly were vaccinated �� When we first got them, our vet advised us that vaccinations weren’t necessary as they wouldn’t come into contact with wild animals. They do spend a lot of time free-range the garden though �� Anyway, we have now realised that it is crucial that Molly is vaccinated. She had her first one two days ago, and is booked for her second in two weeks time.

Max didn’t have any injury, or wheezing, discharge etc. No blood round his mouth or nose when he died. It was eight days ago, so if it was contagious surely Molly would have gone by now? �� I have explained all of this to the RSPCA, who are happy for us to take Mars �� next week, after he’s had his second vaccination (they don’t want him to go outside before that).

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To be frank, I would advise you to change to a vet experienced with rabbits because the advice you were given is completely wrong and, as you have found out in the most horrendous way, dangerous.

I strongly advise you to hold off on the bonding until Molly has had her RHD2 jab. I may be out of order, but I'm not happy that the RSPCA were happy for you to take home another rabbit until all danger for Molly had passed (as far as we are able). Someone else may come along with different advice, but that is my gut reaction.

Just to add - you may wish to start another thread asking for a rabbit-savvy vet in your area?

Babsie said:

To be frank, I would advise you to change to a vet experienced with rabbits because the advice you were given is completely wrong and, as you have found out in the most horrendous way, dangerous.

I strongly advise you to hold off on the bonding until Molly has had her RHD2 jab. I may be out of order, but I'm not happy that the RSPCA were happy for you to take home another rabbit until all danger for Molly had passed (as far as we are able). Someone else may come along with different advice, but that is my gut reaction.

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I’m sorry you lost Max

I agree with Babsie, I wouldn’t risk bringing another rabbit home until Molly has had both rhd1/myxomatosis vaccine and the RHD2 vaccine, and also the new rabbit has had the same vaccines, and the immunity has been reached, so I’d wait until both rabbits have had both vaccines and then wait 2 weeks after.

I’m surprised at the R.S.P.C.A. response too.

Oh gosh, I’m really worried now

The rabbit lady (not sure what her official title is!) at the RSPCA said that rabbits have to wait until one week after the second injection before they can be with other rabbits or go outside. I asked if we could leave it a little longer before bringing Mars home, partly because of Molly’s vaccinations, and partly because I’m worried it might be too soon for Molly to bond with another rabbit. But they won’t let me reserve Mars and then leave him there for a couple of weeks. If we don’t take him next week, someone else will adopt him

If we give up on Mars, and start again, when do you think it would be okay to put another rabbit with Molly? Her second vaccination is on 13 September.

I am also worried that if we leave it for another two weeks, Molly will die of grief. Does this happen, or am I being melodramatic? It is heartbreaking seeing her like this, but I know her physical health, and that of another rabbit, has to come before her broken heart

MaxAndMolly said:

I’m really worried about our lovely Molly. I’m not sure if it’s a behavioural issue or health, so I might post this in both sections of the forum. I hope that’s okay.

Our beloved Max died last week (8 days ago) �� He was only three, and it was really sudden. He was hopping about as usual on Thursday evening, and had died by tea time on Friday. We suspect it was gut stasis but don’t know for certain.

Molly and Max have been together since birth, and had a really strong bond, so she is extremely unhappy. We have already found a new companion for her, who we will collect next week.

Molly isn’t eating very much, isn’t moving around very much, and spends most of the time just sitting in one spot. We have given her loads of extra cuddles but she has never been the most affectionate of rabbits. She tolerates being stroked and picked up but unwillingly. When I pick her up now, she just sits in my arms rather than scrabbling to get down. I don’t know whether this is a sign of lethargy, or liking the cuddles more than she used to.

Then today, while sitting on my lap she suddenly did a massive wee. She has never urinated on me before, and as far as I know, only ever urinates in her litter tray. It was definitely a ‘release of urine’ rather than a spray - it all just ran down my legs �� It was yellow and didn’t smell. When I put her down, she hopped off, but didn’t run as though scared, or do a major heel-flick (and Molly loves a good heel-flick to indicate her disapproval of us �&#56834

After Max dying so suddenly I’m paranoid about Molly’s health. I took her to the vet two days ago for her vaccination, and the vet checked her over then and said she was fine, but that was two days ago and we all know how quickly they can go downhill ��

Was this a health issue? Just odd behaviour because she’s out of sorts? Or just her way of telling me she doesn’t want all these cuddles?

Sorry this is so long. Worried sick - I can’t bear to lose Molly too ������

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I am sorry to hear of Max's sudden passing

I dont wish to create additional anxiety for you, but with such a sudden death in an young unvaccinated Rabbit RHD1/RHD2 cannot be ruled out without a PM.

With RHD2 the only symptom can be that the Rabbit dies suddenly with no prior signs of illness.

https://rabbitwelfare.co.uk/rabbit-health/rabbit-vhd/

https://rabbitwelfare.co.uk/rabbit-health/further-reading/rvhd-further-reading/

Personally I would hold off bringing another Rabbit into your home at the moment (see information in the second link above) x

MaxAndMolly said:

I’m really worried about our lovely Molly. I’m not sure if it’s a behavioural issue or health, so I might post this in both sections of the forum. I hope that’s okay.

Our beloved Max died last week (8 days ago) He was only three, and it was really sudden. He was hopping about as usual on Thursday evening, and had died by tea time on Friday. We suspect it was gut stasis but don’t know for certain.

Molly and Max have been together since birth, and had a really strong bond, so she is extremely unhappy. We have already found a new companion for her, who we will collect next week.

Molly isn’t eating very much, isn’t moving around very much, and spends most of the time just sitting in one spot. We have given her loads of extra cuddles but she has never been the most affectionate of rabbits. She tolerates being stroked and picked up but unwillingly. When I pick her up now, she just sits in my arms rather than scrabbling to get down. I don’t know whether this is a sign of lethargy, or liking the cuddles more than she used to.

Then today, while sitting on my lap she suddenly did a massive wee. She has never urinated on me before, and as far as I know, only ever urinates in her litter tray. It was definitely a ‘release of urine’ rather than a spray - it all just ran down my legs It was yellow and didn’t smell. When I put her down, she hopped off, but didn’t run as though scared, or do a major heel-flick (and Molly loves a good heel-flick to indicate her disapproval of us )

After Max dying so suddenly I’m paranoid about Molly’s health. I took her to the vet two days ago for her vaccination, and the vet checked her over then and said she was fine, but that was two days ago and we all know how quickly they can go downhill

Was this a health issue? Just odd behaviour because she’s out of sorts? Or just her way of telling me she doesn’t want all these cuddles?

Sorry this is so long. Worried sick - I can’t bear to lose Molly too

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I'm really sorry to hear that you lost Max

I do understand about the grief a rabbit can experience, it's real and can be huge.

I would tend to agree with Babsie, and get the vaccinations out of the way before bringing another rabbit into the family.
I would also, just to be sure, make sure any rabbit coming in has been vaccinated a couple of weeks prior to being brought home.

https://www.harcourt-brown.co.uk/owners/frequently-asked-questions/FAQRHD

https://rabbitwelfare.co.uk/rabbit-health/further-reading/rvhd-further-reading/

I'm sorry on the loss of your furry friend

it does sound like she is grieving. rabbits can grieve a loss of their friend, often becoming very subdued and sad.

personally, I didn't feel ready for another rabbit after Snoopy passed. Luna was grieving the loss of her friend too. I didn't get another rabbit for roughly 9 months or so. many disagree with me for this as I should have gotten a friend immediately. perhaps I shouldn't have waited as long, and many will disagree with me here, but I find it "odd" to immediately try to bond a rabbit after losing their best friend. they should be allowed time to grieve also. it is case to case dependant, but a lot of the time no harm is done by waiting a few weeks, perhaps not as long as I did.

for me personally if I had adopted a rabbit so soon, I would have kept trying to find a rabbit like Snoopy. no rabbit will ever be Snoopy - that's not how it works. it wouldn't have worked out for me or the bun. I needed some time for myself.

on a different note however, I would advise you to change vets immediately. the information you were given is false, both RHD diseases are air-born, myxi I don't remember. with RHD2, the rabbits are known to die extremely suddenly with no real symptoms whatsoever. your only way to find out is a post mortem.

usually it will be spread to the other rabbits, and Molly would be extremely sick by now, but I would still not rule out RHD as a possible death cause. its vital in my honest opinion for you to get some strong disinfectant, and disinfect anywhere possible the rabbits have been, including hutches/runs etc. Virkon has been proved effective against RHD2.
https://www.biosecurity.nl/images/Virkon_proved_effective_against_VHD_konijn.pdf

no rabbits should be brought into the home until areas where they have been is disinfected, and Molly has had time to gain immunity to the vaccine. I believe immunity is after 1 or 2 weeks? I'm not sure. the rabbit you are bringing into the home must also have been vaccinated and gained immunity.

the RWAF has a list of vets that have been approved by them, meaning they have a rabbit savvy vet. I would suggest you change to one of those. or, you can post on the forum with your rough location and hopefully somebody can advise.

MaxAndMolly said:

Oh gosh, I’m really worried now ��

The rabbit lady (not sure what her official title is!) at the RSPCA said that rabbits have to wait until one week after the second injection before they can be with other rabbits or go outside. I asked if we could leave it a little longer before bringing Mars home, partly because of Molly’s vaccinations, and partly because I’m worried it might be too soon for Molly to bond with another rabbit. But they won’t let me reserve Mars and then leave him there for a couple of weeks. If we don’t take him next week, someone else will adopt him ��

If we give up on Mars, and start again, when do you think it would be okay to put another rabbit with Molly? Her second vaccination is on 13 September.

I am also worried that if we leave it for another two weeks, Molly will die of grief. Does this happen, or am I being melodramatic? It is heartbreaking seeing her like this, but I know her physical health, and that of another rabbit, has to come before her broken heart ��

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You really are in a horrible situation - not helped (as we've already said) by what I would describe as an incompetent vet who gave out incorrect and dangerous advice.
Coming back to the RSPCA: the woman you saw should have known the danger of your bringing in another rabbit so soon after Max and the question of vaccinations. I think she risks 'shooting herself in the foot' by telling you that she will not reserve Mars for a little longer. I think (if it were me) I would tell her to go ahead then and re-home him to someone else - you may find she will change her mind!
I'm not sure where you are exactly, but Honeybunnies - although based in Leicester - rehome all over the country.

Thanks everyone. We really need to think what to do for the best now... We will definitely change vets though.

Mars had only been at the rescue centre for a week or so, and while we were there, another family rang up asking about him, so I’m pretty sure that unless we collect him early next week, we will lose him. I think the RSPCA just want to make space for another rescue as quickly as possible, and I do understand that in some ways. Obviously there are other rabbits out there, but we have already got excited about Mars, if you know what I mean.

In terms of us being emotionally ready for another rabbit, it’s more about Molly. If we didn’t have her, I would definitely leave it another month or so, but a) I’m worried about her being lonely, and b) seeing her on her own makes us miss Max even more, if that makes sense. There is obviously the risk though that by getting another bunny so soon, he won’t ‘live up’ to Max, either for Molly or for us.

The rescue centre is closed until Tuesday, so I can’t ring them up to discuss it with them. The earliest I could speak to them is when they re-open at 11.30 on Tuesday morning, which is when we’re meant to be collecting Mars. Aargh, what a mess.

Not sure how much experience you have of bonding but I know my feisty madam who had been left on her own was only able to be bonded with a very young (baby) boy - she was aggressive with all the other rabbits. Mind you, she is 11!

Update: We went to check on Molly at about 7pm and she had collapsed. Completely floppy, couldn’t even hold her head up, and very laboured breathing. It was obvious she was dying. We nearly didn’t take her to the vet, because we didn’t think we could get her there before she died, and I’d rather she died in my arms at home, than in a basket in the car. But we decided it was worth a shot.

The vet whisked her away and gave her oxygen and glucose. Upshot is that she is still alive, responding slightly, and is staying at the vets overnight. We’ll get an update in the morning.

The vet (emergency one, not our usual vet) isn’t sure what’s wrong, and at the moment it’s just about getting her back from the brink of death, before making a diagnosis and starting treatment. She seemed to think gut stasis was more likely than RHD though.

We certainly won’t be getting Mars, the rescue rabbit, though. If Molly doesn’t make it, we’ll be looking for a bonded pair, and if she does make it, she’ll need plenty of time to recover.

We’re devastated, and feel so, so guilty for poor Molly.

MaxAndMolly said:

Update: We went to check on Molly at about 7pm and she had collapsed. Completely floppy, couldn’t even hold her head up, and very laboured breathing. It was obvious she was dying. We nearly didn’t take her to the vet, because we didn’t think we could get her there before she died, and I’d rather she died in my arms at home, than in a basket in the car. But we decided it was worth a shot.

The vet whisked her away and gave her oxygen and glucose. Upshot is that she is still alive, responding slightly, and is staying at the vets overnight. We’ll get an update in the morning.

The vet (emergency one, not our usual vet) isn’t sure what’s wrong, and at the moment it’s just about getting her back from the brink of death, before making a diagnosis and starting treatment. She seemed to think gut stasis was more likely than RHD though.

We certainly won’t be getting Mars, the rescue rabbit, though. If Molly doesn’t make it, we’ll be looking for a bonded pair, and if she does make it, she’ll need plenty of time to recover.

We’re devastated, and feel so, so guilty for poor Molly.

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I am devastated by your update and am so sorry.

I can only send hugs, and know that if there's anything I can do, don't hesitate to ask me xx

Sending vibes for Molly. I hope she has a comfortable night and responds to the vets treatment.

Thank you. The vet said we could ring any time for an update, so we’ll ring in an hour or so.

Oh no I’m so sorry to see this. Sending lots of vibes for her xx

MaxAndMolly said:

Thank you. The vet said we could ring any time for an update, so we’ll ring in an hour or so.

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I hope she will be OK.

Sending loads of vibes for her, and hugs for you xx