Possible Seizure or Epilepsy

My 4-month-old male lion head Frank has been having some issues as of late for reasons unknown, at current count that we have witnessed he has had 4 what we think are seizures.

We took him to the VET and they offered us some EC medicine that we have been giving him for about 14 days in the hope this would remedy the issues but last night he had what was his 4th possible seizure, he starts by pattering around in circles very quickly as though he is disoriented then aggressively runs in a direction in last night’s case he ran into the door of his cage 2 times, after the aggressive movements stop he then starts doing one of two things reaching into the sky chewing as though he has gum in his mouth or has something stuck in his teeth or the same but sat down tilting his head all the way back like something out of the exorcist, after its happened we just try to console him as he looks to be scared by what’s happened as I imagine he obviously would be I have attached a video of his second to last episode showing what he does before he starts violently throwing himself around, this was when we rushed him to the emergency vet because he threw himself down a step into our ensuite bathroom as though he couldn’t see, rest assured he has never been down this said step hence the shock when he literally threw himself off it thankfully it isn’t too high and he didn’t injure himself but the last 2 times he had an episode we didn’t have anything like this so we rushed him to a vet to get urgent attention.

Unfortunately I havent been able to video a full episode because I usually try to keep a close eye on him to make sure he is okay but hopefully what I have attatched is enough to give someone an idea, they happen every 2-3 weeks at the moment but we really don't know what is triggering them.

As I am sure you can imagine it is horrible to watch and very upsetting so we are just trying to get any help or answers before we inevitably have to pay to have tests done on him as to what you think it is we really thought the medicine we were given was working but now we are wondering if it could be something else hopefully someone else has seen something like this and can give me advice?

https://youtu.be/I12h50U3tdU

*bump*

Poor bunny. I have no advice I am sorry. He isn't blind is he? How has he been since you posted. Sorry it was missed.

willerton said:

My 4-month-old male lion head Frank has been having some issues as of late for reasons unknown, at current count that we have witnessed he has had 4 what we think are seizures.

We took him to the VET and they offered us some EC medicine that we have been giving him for about 14 days in the hope this would remedy the issues but last night he had what was his 4th possible seizure, he starts by pattering around in circles very quickly as though he is disoriented then aggressively runs in a direction in last night’s case he ran into the door of his cage 2 times, after the aggressive movements stop he then starts doing one of two things reaching into the sky chewing as though he has gum in his mouth or has something stuck in his teeth or the same but sat down tilting his head all the way back like something out of the exorcist, after its happened we just try to console him as he looks to be scared by what’s happened as I imagine he obviously would be I have attached a video of his second to last episode showing what he does before he starts violently throwing himself around, this was when we rushed him to the emergency vet because he threw himself down a step into our ensuite bathroom as though he couldn’t see, rest assured he has never been down this said step hence the shock when he literally threw himself off it thankfully it isn’t too high and he didn’t injure himself but the last 2 times he had an episode we didn’t have anything like this so we rushed him to a vet to get urgent attention.

Unfortunately I havent been able to video a full episode because I usually try to keep a close eye on him to make sure he is okay but hopefully what I have attatched is enough to give someone an idea, they happen every 2-3 weeks at the moment but we really don't know what is triggering them.

As I am sure you can imagine it is horrible to watch and very upsetting so we are just trying to get any help or answers before we inevitably have to pay to have tests done on him as to what you think it is we really thought the medicine we were given was working but now we are wondering if it could be something else hopefully someone else has seen something like this and can give me advice?

https://youtu.be/I12h50U3tdU

Click to expand...

There are several possible causes of seizures in Rabbits, EC is one of them. I expect that the medication the Vet prescribed is Fenbendazole (AKA 'Panacur/Lapizole) ?
This medication will not 'cure' EC, it reduces the number of EC spores circulating in the bloodstream. So clinical symptoms that present can be permanent. Fenbendazole treatment needs to continue for at least 28 days and it is important to minimise the risk of the Rabbit ingesting any urine contaminated food/bedding. EC spores being excreted in the urine so ingesting contaminated food/bedding would re-infect the Rabbit.

Detailed information about EC here :

https://www.dechra.co.uk/therapy-ar...cs-antifungals/disease-information/e-cuniculi

http://wildpro.twycrosszoo.org/S/00dis/Parasitic/Encephalitozoonosis.htm

This video shows a Rabbit having a seizure, is this what your Rabbit is doing ?

* Distressing to Watch *
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wwDjGGa1sNM

It is thought that some Lionhead type Rabbits may have a genetic predisposition to Epilepsy

Some of these links may also be useful to take a look at :

http://www.medirabbit.com/EN/Neurology/seizure.htm

http://wildpro.twycrosszoo.org/S/00dis/Miscellaneous/Epilepsy_Bears.htm

https://www.petmd.com/rabbit/conditions/neurological/c_rb_seizures

willerton said:

My 4-month-old male lion head Frank has been having some issues as of late for reasons unknown, at current count that we have witnessed he has had 4 what we think are seizures.

We took him to the VET and they offered us some EC medicine that we have been giving him for about 14 days in the hope this would remedy the issues but last night he had what was his 4th possible seizure, he starts by pattering around in circles very quickly as though he is disoriented then aggressively runs in a direction in last night’s case he ran into the door of his cage 2 times, after the aggressive movements stop he then starts doing one of two things reaching into the sky chewing as though he has gum in his mouth or has something stuck in his teeth or the same but sat down tilting his head all the way back like something out of the exorcist, after its happened we just try to console him as he looks to be scared by what’s happened as I imagine he obviously would be I have attached a video of his second to last episode showing what he does before he starts violently throwing himself around, this was when we rushed him to the emergency vet because he threw himself down a step into our ensuite bathroom as though he couldn’t see, rest assured he has never been down this said step hence the shock when he literally threw himself off it thankfully it isn’t too high and he didn’t injure himself but the last 2 times he had an episode we didn’t have anything like this so we rushed him to a vet to get urgent attention.

Unfortunately I havent been able to video a full episode because I usually try to keep a close eye on him to make sure he is okay but hopefully what I have attatched is enough to give someone an idea, they happen every 2-3 weeks at the moment but we really don't know what is triggering them.

As I am sure you can imagine it is horrible to watch and very upsetting so we are just trying to get any help or answers before we inevitably have to pay to have tests done on him as to what you think it is we really thought the medicine we were given was working but now we are wondering if it could be something else hopefully someone else has seen something like this and can give me advice?

https://youtu.be/I12h50U3tdU

Click to expand...

Hi there and welcome to the Forum.

I am sorry to hear about Frank.

I have looked at the Youtube video and this all looks very familiar to me. When my rabbit had these seizures my vet had never treated a rabbit for this before so I was sailing in the dark. However, I did a lot of research and came up with some possible treatments which appeared to mitigate the problem entirely. I won't go into them here but PM me if you feel you need more info at this stage. I can certainly support you throughout all of this


Panacur is definitely a good thing to do. I am sure you know this, but treatment must be given for 28 days and I don't know whether Frank is in contact with any other rabbits but they must be treated at the same time as well.

Some info on that here:

https://www.dechra.co.uk/therapy-ar...cs-antifungals/disease-information/e-cuniculi

https://rabbitwelfare.co.uk/rabbit-health/e-cuniculi/


It's also advisable to clean the litter trays and anywhere there is urine with a 1 - 10% bleach solution on days 21 and 28 of treatment to interrupt the life cycle of the parasite. The solution only has to be in contact for 30 seconds to be effective. I cleaned out my litter trays this way much more often - rinse well!

Metacam is also indicated as this is to control the inflammatory response. E.C. spores erupt into organ tissue, and this can cause longer term damage. It can also make the clinical symptoms of the condition worse. But all of this needs to be weighed up against the possible side effects of the NSAID, which can include compromising the kidneys.


There are other causes of seizures and E.C. is one of them, but they can certainly be controlled if not eradicated.

How is Frank doing now?

tonibun said:

Poor bunny. I have no advice I am sorry. He isn't blind is he? How has he been since you posted. Sorry it was missed.

Click to expand...

Thanks for the concern I do worry about him but I am trying to be as optimistic as I can be, he isn't blind as far as I can tell but he is a bit clumsy and bumps into things but I think thats just because he is a bit silly. He hasn't been to bad but giving him his medicine is fun and games for sure!

Jack's-Jane said:

There are several possible causes of seizures in Rabbits, EC is one of them. I expect that the medication the Vet prescribed is Fenbendazole (AKA 'Panacur/Lapizole) ?
This medication will not 'cure' EC, it reduces the number of EC spores circulating in the bloodstream. So clinical symptoms that present can be permanent. Fenbendazole treatment needs to continue for at least 28 days and it is important to minimise the risk of the Rabbit ingesting any urine contaminated food/bedding. EC spores being excreted in the urine so ingesting contaminated food/bedding would re-infect the Rabbit.

Detailed information about EC here :

https://www.dechra.co.uk/therapy-ar...cs-antifungals/disease-information/e-cuniculi

http://wildpro.twycrosszoo.org/S/00dis/Parasitic/Encephalitozoonosis.htm

This video shows a Rabbit having a seizure, is this what your Rabbit is doing ?

* Distressing to Watch *
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wwDjGGa1sNM

It is thought that some Lionhead type Rabbits may have a genetic predisposition to Epilepsy

Some of these links may also be useful to take a look at :

http://www.medirabbit.com/EN/Neurology/seizure.htm

http://wildpro.twycrosszoo.org/S/00dis/Miscellaneous/Epilepsy_Bears.htm

https://www.petmd.com/rabbit/conditions/neurological/c_rb_seizures

Click to expand...

Thanks for the reply, Yes, he is currently on Pancur, Meloxidyl and Baytril all given by our vet we have to give them all once daily and we are currently on about day 19 of his 28-day Pancur cycle I believe.

The video you showed of the seizure is basically exactly what he does they are gradually getting less and less worse in my opinion, but they happen about 3 times a day sometimes he panics after and other times he doesn’t really just luck of the draw as to how he reacts. We are taking note of seizure times and recovery times but it's difficult to watch him all the time but we are trying our best because I would hate to miss something and him injure himself

**Edit** I just realised while showing my girlfriend that the video says epileptic seizure? Are they the same as EC seizures or could that mean he might if this doesnt work potentially have Epilepsey? **edit**

Not sure if this is something you also see but we have noticed that when he has a seizure he is weeing as far as I can tell he is doing it every time he does it so we are regardless having to clean his cage out daily and we try to disinfect everything as best we can.

Thank you for the reply again though any and all advice is so appreciated I will thoroughly read it all to make sure we do everything right! especially when we are so new to this and he is so young, we would hate to lose him but I just have my fingers crossed it isn’t causing any long term issues.

MightyMax said:

Hi there and welcome to the Forum.

I am sorry to hear about Frank.

I have looked at the Youtube video and this all looks very familiar to me. When my rabbit had these seizures my vet had never treated a rabbit for this before so I was sailing in the dark. However, I did a lot of research and came up with some possible treatments which appeared to mitigate the problem entirely. I won't go into them here but PM me if you feel you need more info at this stage. I can certainly support you throughout all of this


Panacur is definitely a good thing to do. I am sure you know this, but treatment must be given for 28 days and I don't know whether Frank is in contact with any other rabbits but they must be treated at the same time as well.

Some info on that here:

https://www.dechra.co.uk/therapy-ar...cs-antifungals/disease-information/e-cuniculi

https://rabbitwelfare.co.uk/rabbit-health/e-cuniculi/


It's also advisable to clean the litter trays and anywhere there is urine with a 1 - 10% bleach solution on days 21 and 28 of treatment to interrupt the life cycle of the parasite. The solution only has to be in contact for 30 seconds to be effective. I cleaned out my litter trays this way much more often - rinse well!

Metacam is also indicated as this is to control the inflammatory response. E.C. spores erupt into organ tissue, and this can cause longer term damage. It can also make the clinical symptoms of the condition worse. But all of this needs to be weighed up against the possible side effects of the NSAID, which can include compromising the kidneys.


There are other causes of seizures and E.C. is one of them, but they can certainly be controlled if not eradicated.

How is Frank doing now?

Click to expand...

Thank you for the warm welcome

I would love to hear what you did to help with the issues because I would love something that can help him long term if maybe the overall concoction of medication isn’t a guaranteed fix, with him being so young I am afraid that if he keeps doing it they will have a long term effect on him and I would hate to think we didn’t try everything!

He is doing okay at the moment most seizures happen during the day and we comfort him best we can and have tried our best to limit any injury by padding his cage, he seems pretty okay with it for now not sure if that is a sign he is getting better or used to it but either way he is in my opinion doing better but I just hope I am not blinded by the fact I want him to be and that he actually is!

Tbh when he isnt having one he is running around happy as ever or sat like an odd bod staring into space which seems to be his favourite past time at the minute but other than that I genuinely think he is okay!

We use like antibacterial spray we got from our local pet store? Is this okay or would you advise something stronger like bleach for example?

The vet did say about the steroid based anti inflammatory but as of yet we are just on the normal inflammatory to see if it works before heading towards that one.

Thankyou for all the information though and again I would love to hear how you managed it.

Sending lots of vibes for him:thumb:

Zoobec said:

Sending lots of vibes for him:thumb:

Click to expand...

Thanks zoobec! Feel relieved to be honest to have somewhere to ask questions because while it might be too soon to say alot of vets especially my local ones are a little unsure with Rabbits which is why I came online to find somewhere I can ask questions with rabbit owners from all over the world who have first hand experience even if it just gives me an idea of what I need to go back and ask my vet it is all helpful towards making him better!

willerton said:

Thanks for the reply, Yes, he is currently on Pancur, Meloxidyl and Baytril all given by our vet we have to give them all once daily and we are currently on about day 19 of his 28-day Pancur cycle I believe.

The video you showed of the seizure is basically exactly what he does they are gradually getting less and less worse in my opinion, but they happen about 3 times a day sometimes he panics after and other times he doesn’t really just luck of the draw as to how he reacts. We are taking note of seizure times and recovery times but it's difficult to watch him all the time but we are trying our best because I would hate to miss something and him injure himself

**Edit** I just realised while showing my girlfriend that the video says epileptic seizure? Are they the same as EC seizures or could that mean he might if this doesnt work potentially have Epilepsey? **edit**

Not sure if this is something you also see but we have noticed that when he has a seizure he is weeing as far as I can tell he is doing it every time he does it so we are regardless having to clean his cage out daily and we try to disinfect everything as best we can.

Thank you for the reply again though any and all advice is so appreciated I will thoroughly read it all to make sure we do everything right! especially when we are so new to this and he is so young, we would hate to lose him but I just have my fingers crossed it isn’t causing any long term issues.

Click to expand...

The way seizures present can be very similar even if the primary cause is different. EC is a much more common occurrence than is Epilepsy . But the seizures themselves may look the same, if you see what I mean.

Urinating/defecating and sometimes squealing/screaming can occur during a seizure. These are all autonomic responses-ie the Rabbit is unaware of doing them. A human having a seizure can be similarly affected. Squealing/screaming in Rabbits is distressing to hear, but if made during a seizure it is unlikely to be a conscious response to pain/fear, as is usually the case when a Rabbit squeals/screams but is not having a seizure at the time.

You may find that the frequency and severity of the seizures reduce over the coming weeks. But there is no guarantee. That said, I had a Rabbit, Billie, who developed seizures at 6 months of age. These were caused by EC. Billie continued to have seizures in his sleep most days. But he lived a very happy life for almost 8 years. He lived with three other Rabbits who all accepted his 'strange' behaviour. In every way he behaved like a 'normal' Rabbit apart from having a couple of seizures a day. Mostly they were minor- just a sudden jolting forward and scrabbling of his back legs. But very occasionally he'd have a fit like that shown in the video I posted.

I would try to take things one day at a time at the moment. Making sure that your Rabbit keeps eating and drinking will minimise the risk of secondary gut stasis. Keeping him in a safe environment whereby he cant cause himself damage during a seizure is also important. Also, sometimes triggers can be identified that lead to a seizure. Things like the Rabbit seeing a TV/PC monitor flicking, the Rabbit getting very excited and charging about, very warm weather. But of course some seizures occur with no obvious trigger at all.

Best wishes for as much of a recovery as possible for your Rabbit x

The others have given you are lot of wonderful information. It sounds like he is an otherwise a happy bunny and lucky to have you giving him excellent care.
Sending you and he some positive vibes.

willerton said:

Thanks for the concern I do worry about him but I am trying to be as optimistic as I can be, he isn't blind as far as I can tell but he is a bit clumsy and bumps into things but I think thats just because he is a bit silly. He hasn't been to bad but giving him his medicine is fun and games for sure!



Thanks for the reply, Yes, he is currently on Pancur, Meloxidyl and Baytril all given by our vet we have to give them all once daily and we are currently on about day 19 of his 28-day Pancur cycle I believe.

The video you showed of the seizure is basically exactly what he does they are gradually getting less and less worse in my opinion, but they happen about 3 times a day sometimes he panics after and other times he doesn’t really just luck of the draw as to how he reacts. We are taking note of seizure times and recovery times but it's difficult to watch him all the time but we are trying our best because I would hate to miss something and him injure himself

**Edit** I just realised while showing my girlfriend that the video says epileptic seizure? Are they the same as EC seizures or could that mean he might if this doesnt work potentially have Epilepsey? **edit**

Not sure if this is something you also see but we have noticed that when he has a seizure he is weeing as far as I can tell he is doing it every time he does it so we are regardless having to clean his cage out daily and we try to disinfect everything as best we can.

Thank you for the reply again though any and all advice is so appreciated I will thoroughly read it all to make sure we do everything right! especially when we are so new to this and he is so young, we would hate to lose him but I just have my fingers crossed it isn’t causing any long term issues.


.

Click to expand...

It's very difficult to know the exact ethology of seizures, so you have to deal with what you see in front of you and try and control them in some way. Has your vet given you any medication specifically to address the seizure problem? They can often be caused by E.C., and Panacur and Metacam is the way to go. However, there are ways to address the issue with medication. As I mentioned, my own vet admitted that she had never dealt with a rabbit having seizures before so it was back to the drawing board for me, but some vets will perhaps be able to offer advice here.

A rabbit can live comfortably with seizures, so long as they are brought down to a level where he isn't going to harm himself. I had to work fast with my rabbit as he was in danger of doing just this.

Regards the cleaning - it's only bleach that will kill the spores of E.C. in the urine so it would be certainly best to use this as I mentioned in a 1 - 10% dilution for 30 seconds.

It's also normal for a rabbit to wee as they will temporarily lose control of their bodily functions. Please don't think that you might lose your lovely rabbit. It's difficult to know how he feels, I know my rabbit was very afraid when the seizures took him but I was able to hold him and reassure until they passed. As I said, there are ways to potentially manage these conditions so they still live a full life.

He is very lucky that you look after him so well

It's now been 3 days since Frank last had a seizure not sure if it was down to the heat because its been really hot in the UK or if the medicine is finally kicking in but he is back to his normal self! We aare fighting with him to avoid him eating his poo and wee but it's for his own good not many more days left of his medicine so hopefully he will stay this way until the end!

If anything changed I will certainly update you all but as of at the minute, touch wood he is doing really really well!

willerton said:

It's now been 3 days since Frank last had a seizure not sure if it was down to the heat because its been really hot in the UK or if the medicine is finally kicking in but he is back to his normal self! We aare fighting with him to avoid him eating his poo and wee but it's for his own good not many more days left of his medicine so hopefully he will stay this way until the end!

If anything changed I will certainly update you all but as of at the minute, touch wood he is doing really really well!

Click to expand...

.......... and long may that continue x

willerton said:

It's now been 3 days since Frank last had a seizure not sure if it was down to the heat because its been really hot in the UK or if the medicine is finally kicking in but he is back to his normal self! We aare fighting with him to avoid him eating his poo and wee but it's for his own good not many more days left of his medicine so hopefully he will stay this way until the end!

If anything changed I will certainly update you all but as of at the minute, touch wood he is doing really really well!

Click to expand...

So pleased to hear this!