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8 year old bunny with suspected stroke

Sammy&Patch

Sammy&Patch

Warren Scout
Sammy is an 8 year old female bunny, I believe she is some sort of lion head dwarf cross. She lives indoors and has her own room, we have another bunny, Gingerbread but they would not bond so they are separate other than smooching sessions. Yesterday I came home and found her in the corner of her room. I went over to her and she freaked out and tried to run into her hutch but she was falling all over the place. I worked out there was something wrong with her front left paw. It was just sliding around and not taking her weight. I thought she might have hurt it but when I touched it she didn't flinch at all as if she couldn't feel it. A few years ago another bunny I had started off similar to this and had to be put down the next day so I phoned the emergency vet and got her an appointment yesterday an hour later. Meanwhile she drank water when I offered her the bottle and ate some treats but not any of her basic nuggets. At the vets, we noticed her back right foot (opposite to the front one) was also doing the same. He had to pinch the feet pretty hard for her to flinch but she did so there must be some feeling. Also at one point I noticed her partly using her bad front foot to try to clean her face which she managed slightly. The vet looked up what had happened to my other bunnies years ago but said that was rare and not the same thing. He suspects a stroke. He gave her Rapidexon mls according to my receipt, I think it is an anti-inflamotary or steroid? I also mentioned that I had noticed 'dandruff' on her outer ears (inner ears look good) and wondered if it could be a parasite, infection etc. I had ordered some mite treatment in case but hadn't got it yet. He looked at her ears and didn't seem concerned. As she is indoors he still thinks it is most likely a stroke due to her age. I read about different things like E cuniculi but she doesn't have the head tilt and a lot of those types of issues seemed to be suggesting hind legs rather than front along with head tilt and eye movements which she doesn't have. I have to keep her confined for 2-3 days and take her back if she doesn't improve and I think he was meaning to get her put down. She is breathing quite heavily/fast and seems scared. Stroking her is not comforting her, but she will take treats. I know I need to keep her eating so I am wondering if there is any harm in letting her eat lots of treats as she won't touch her nuggets as it might be better than nothing. She also ate some grass and dandelion leaves I brought in for her but she won't touch her hay. She seems very distressed and scared (she must wonder what an earth is going on with her feet). I think she is just sitting there the whole time, I have the water bottle near her and she was drinking it herself earlier (I have it low down so she can reach it without effort). I don't know whether I should be trying to get her feet moving, massaging or anything like that, but she is distressed when I open her hutch. (Normally she is a happy bunny, running over to say hi etc so this is very unlike her. I noticed one of her ears last night was sticking up (she normally has both down). I thought it was just the way she was sitting. But this morning it's the same, I tried to stroke it down but it was quite stiff in that position and she moved away. I tried again and it went back to normal but she shook her head and it went back up. It could be a coincidence but that's another unusual thing going on.

Anyone with any advice, opinions, suggestions on how to try to get her better if it is a stroke etc would be greatly appreciated. The vet had said leave her 2-3 days so I'm going to get her an appointment Wednesday (unless she gets worse before then) and hopefully get to see a vet that I really like who seems to be the best with bunnies. I'm hoping if she hasn't improved then this vet might have other options or opinions on what it could be. Thankyou
 
Sorry your bunny isn't well. I am not going to be much help but heavy/fast breathing can mean she is in pain. The only other advice is to give her a bowl of water rather than a bottle as they drink more from a bowl. Could she have hurt herself jumping off something? I hope she gets better soon.
 
Sammy&Patch said:
Sammy is an 8 year old female bunny, I believe she is some sort of lion head dwarf cross. She lives indoors and has her own room, we have another bunny, Gingerbread but they would not bond so they are separate other than smooching sessions. Yesterday I came home and found her in the corner of her room. I went over to her and she freaked out and tried to run into her hutch but she was falling all over the place. I worked out there was something wrong with her front left paw. It was just sliding around and not taking her weight. I thought she might have hurt it but when I touched it she didn't flinch at all as if she couldn't feel it. A few years ago another bunny I had started off similar to this and had to be put down the next day so I phoned the emergency vet and got her an appointment yesterday an hour later. Meanwhile she drank water when I offered her the bottle and ate some treats but not any of her basic nuggets. At the vets, we noticed her back right foot (opposite to the front one) was also doing the same. He had to pinch the feet pretty hard for her to flinch but she did so there must be some feeling. Also at one point I noticed her partly using her bad front foot to try to clean her face which she managed slightly. The vet looked up what had happened to my other bunnies years ago but said that was rare and not the same thing. He suspects a stroke. He gave her Rapidexon mls according to my receipt, I think it is an anti-inflamotary or steroid? I also mentioned that I had noticed 'dandruff' on her outer ears (inner ears look good) and wondered if it could be a parasite, infection etc. I had ordered some mite treatment in case but hadn't got it yet. He looked at her ears and didn't seem concerned. As she is indoors he still thinks it is most likely a stroke due to her age. I read about different things like E cuniculi but she doesn't have the head tilt and a lot of those types of issues seemed to be suggesting hind legs rather than front along with head tilt and eye movements which she doesn't have. I have to keep her confined for 2-3 days and take her back if she doesn't improve and I think he was meaning to get her put down. She is breathing quite heavily/fast and seems scared. Stroking her is not comforting her, but she will take treats. I know I need to keep her eating so I am wondering if there is any harm in letting her eat lots of treats as she won't touch her nuggets as it might be better than nothing. She also ate some grass and dandelion leaves I brought in for her but she won't touch her hay. She seems very distressed and scared (she must wonder what an earth is going on with her feet). I think she is just sitting there the whole time, I have the water bottle near her and she was drinking it herself earlier (I have it low down so she can reach it without effort). I don't know whether I should be trying to get her feet moving, massaging or anything like that, but she is distressed when I open her hutch. (Normally she is a happy bunny, running over to say hi etc so this is very unlike her. I noticed one of her ears last night was sticking up (she normally has both down). I thought it was just the way she was sitting. But this morning it's the same, I tried to stroke it down but it was quite stiff in that position and she moved away. I tried again and it went back to normal but she shook her head and it went back up. It could be a coincidence but that's another unusual thing going on.

Anyone with any advice, opinions, suggestions on how to try to get her better if it is a stroke etc would be greatly appreciated. The vet had said leave her 2-3 days so I'm going to get her an appointment Wednesday (unless she gets worse before then) and hopefully get to see a vet that I really like who seems to be the best with bunnies. I'm hoping if she hasn't improved then this vet might have other options or opinions on what it could be. Thankyou
Click to expand...

As tonibun has suggested, the increased respiratory rate may be pain related. Although as Sammy has had a corticosteroid injection that should address inflammation and subsequent pain. Did the Vet mention any possibility of a problem with the vertebrae in Sammy's spine ? Sometimes this can cause compression of the spinal cord. The steroid and complete rest could lead to a gradual improvement over the next week or so.

EC does not always present with a head tilt and it is not always the hind legs that are effected, although that is more common. I would ask the Vet if it may be prudent to start Sammy on a 28 day course of Fenbendazole to cover for that.

Do you think she has any loss of vision ? If she has had a stroke then partial/total loss of vision can occur. This would obviously be stressful for her and stress can cause an increased respiratory rate.

I do hope that you will see some improvement in her condition soon, you are right about the importance of keeping her eating to minimise the risk of secondary gut stasis. For now I'd let her eat what she wants. Anything is better than nothing. What is her output like ? Is she passing urine ?

These links may contain some information that you will find to be useful :

http://wildpro.twycrosszoo.org/S/00dis/Miscellaneous/Stroke_lagomorphs.htm

http://wildpro.twycrosszoo.org/S/00dis/Miscellaneous/Floppy_Rabbit_Syndrome.htm

https://www.dovepress.com/encephali...-manageme-peer-reviewed-fulltext-article-VMRR

http://www.disabledrabbits.com/paralysis.html
 
Sammy&Patch said:
Sammy is an 8 year old female bunny, I believe she is some sort of lion head dwarf cross. She lives indoors and has her own room, we have another bunny, Gingerbread but they would not bond so they are separate other than smooching sessions. Yesterday I came home and found her in the corner of her room. I went over to her and she freaked out and tried to run into her hutch but she was falling all over the place. I worked out there was something wrong with her front left paw. It was just sliding around and not taking her weight. I thought she might have hurt it but when I touched it she didn't flinch at all as if she couldn't feel it. A few years ago another bunny I had started off similar to this and had to be put down the next day so I phoned the emergency vet and got her an appointment yesterday an hour later. Meanwhile she drank water when I offered her the bottle and ate some treats but not any of her basic nuggets. At the vets, we noticed her back right foot (opposite to the front one) was also doing the same. He had to pinch the feet pretty hard for her to flinch but she did so there must be some feeling. Also at one point I noticed her partly using her bad front foot to try to clean her face which she managed slightly. The vet looked up what had happened to my other bunnies years ago but said that was rare and not the same thing. He suspects a stroke. He gave her Rapidexon mls according to my receipt, I think it is an anti-inflamotary or steroid? I also mentioned that I had noticed 'dandruff' on her outer ears (inner ears look good) and wondered if it could be a parasite, infection etc. I had ordered some mite treatment in case but hadn't got it yet. He looked at her ears and didn't seem concerned. As she is indoors he still thinks it is most likely a stroke due to her age. I read about different things like E cuniculi but she doesn't have the head tilt and a lot of those types of issues seemed to be suggesting hind legs rather than front along with head tilt and eye movements which she doesn't have. I have to keep her confined for 2-3 days and take her back if she doesn't improve and I think he was meaning to get her put down. She is breathing quite heavily/fast and seems scared. Stroking her is not comforting her, but she will take treats. I know I need to keep her eating so I am wondering if there is any harm in letting her eat lots of treats as she won't touch her nuggets as it might be better than nothing. She also ate some grass and dandelion leaves I brought in for her but she won't touch her hay. She seems very distressed and scared (she must wonder what an earth is going on with her feet). I think she is just sitting there the whole time, I have the water bottle near her and she was drinking it herself earlier (I have it low down so she can reach it without effort). I don't know whether I should be trying to get her feet moving, massaging or anything like that, but she is distressed when I open her hutch. (Normally she is a happy bunny, running over to say hi etc so this is very unlike her. I noticed one of her ears last night was sticking up (she normally has both down). I thought it was just the way she was sitting. But this morning it's the same, I tried to stroke it down but it was quite stiff in that position and she moved away. I tried again and it went back to normal but she shook her head and it went back up. It could be a coincidence but that's another unusual thing going on.

Anyone with any advice, opinions, suggestions on how to try to get her better if it is a stroke etc would be greatly appreciated. The vet had said leave her 2-3 days so I'm going to get her an appointment Wednesday (unless she gets worse before then) and hopefully get to see a vet that I really like who seems to be the best with bunnies. I'm hoping if she hasn't improved then this vet might have other options or opinions on what it could be. Thankyou
Click to expand...


Poor Sammy and poor you!

That's a very comprehensive report and it's difficult at the moment to know exactly what's going on. She could be breathing hard because she is afraid. I have had a bunny who's had a stroke and it's awful for them because they don't know what's going on.

E.Cuniculi can manifest in many ways, and when my rabbit had a stroke we also treated with Panacur, which I think would be a good idea in Sammy's case, just to cover that base in case it helps at all.

https://www.dechra.co.uk/therapy-ar...cs-antifungals/disease-information/e-cuniculi


She appears to have mites which would indicate that her immune system is low. She's had a steroid:

http://www.noahcompendium.co.uk/?id=-450144

.. so best watch for any other symptoms or ailments because as you know a steroid will lower the immune response.

The other possibility I would consider, given that there's been some ear involvement, is a possible ear infection that has caused her loss of balance. I know the legs seem weak, but a loss of balance could manifest in a similar way. There's some info here:

http://www.veterinarywebinars.com/m...oads/2016/03/Study_Notes_Ear_Nose_Rabbits.pdf

http://www.medirabbit.com/EN/Neurology/Otit/otitis.htm


There's some good info on this site which I've found very helpful:

http://www.disabledrabbits.com
 
tonibun said:
Sorry your bunny isn't well. I am not going to be much help but heavy/fast breathing can mean she is in pain. The only other advice is to give her a bowl of water rather than a bottle as they drink more from a bowl. Could she have hurt herself jumping off something? I hope she gets better soon.
Click to expand...
Thankyou for your reply, I am trying a bowl of water too. There isn't really anything she could have been jumping off to hurt herself. She's booked in to vets again Wednesday, I have booked it with the vet I trust the most with bunnies, yesterday I didn't have a choice who it was as it was the emergency one. Fingers crossed!
 
Hi, thanks for your reply. The vet did check her spine but he thought it was a stroke. Her vision seems ok (other than a bit of a weepy eye which she has had for a long time, I've had her 3 times to the vets for that, last advice was just to keep cleaning fur it as we could try her tear ducts but risky as she is an older bunny). I have booked her in again for Wednesday morning with the vet I trust most for bunny care, I will ask the vet to try treatment for EC just incase. I believe the breathing is from stress rather than pain, she does the same after getting back from the vets but just not for very long. She seems to have calmed a bit. She keeps getting up to have a treat but then flopping back down when she gets wobbly. It seems like it takes it out of her sitting up. But it seems a good sign she is getting up and she enjoyed carrot, dandelion leaves, grass, cabbage and a couple more treats again earlier. Still drinking. Not sure about toilet, she doesn't seem to have been for a wee, she's done a few poos but not much. She seemed to be enjoying some stroking earlier, although still fast breathing. She even licked me a little earlier after I had done a bit of stroking, before putting her head down as usual for me to continue!!! That nearly made me cry, bless her!!!!
 
MightyMax said:
Poor Sammy and poor you!

That's a very comprehensive report and it's difficult at the moment to know exactly what's going on. She could be breathing hard because she is afraid. I have had a bunny who's had a stroke and it's awful for them because they don't know what's going on.

E.Cuniculi can manifest in many ways, and when my rabbit had a stroke we also treated with Panacur, which I think would be a good idea in Sammy's case, just to cover that base in case it helps at all.

https://www.dechra.co.uk/therapy-ar...cs-antifungals/disease-information/e-cuniculi


She appears to have mites which would indicate that her immune system is low. She's had a steroid:

http://www.noahcompendium.co.uk/?id=-450144

.. so best watch for any other symptoms or ailments because as you know a steroid will lower the immune response.

The other possibility I would consider, given that there's been some ear involvement, is a possible ear infection that has caused her loss of balance. I know the legs seem weak, but a loss of balance could manifest in a similar way. There's some info here:

http://www.veterinarywebinars.com/m...oads/2016/03/Study_Notes_Ear_Nose_Rabbits.pdf

http://www.medirabbit.com/EN/Neurology/Otit/otitis.htm


There's some good info on this site which I've found very helpful:

http://www.disabledrabbits.com
Click to expand...

Thankyou for the reply and the information, very useful. I am going to ask the vet on Wednesday to give her treatment just in case of EC. I am also going to ask her to have a better look in her ears as the other vet only had a quick look at her ears. Fingers crossed something will work to make her better or more comfortable, the poor thing.
 
UPDATE: Good news

Sammy has improved since sunday :) She has been getting up and hobbling off to her litter tray, she has been trying to clean herself. She was still breathing fast up until yesterday afternoon. She is definitely wanting treats. She has been eating a fair amount of veg, dandelion leaves and treats but not touching her nuggets or hay yet. She is going off to her litter tray and has been peeing and pooing. She had a bit stuck to her bum which I was going to clean but she's just been trying to do it herself a few minutes ago! She has just seen the vet this morning. She had a little crust in her ears so she has been prescribed mite treatment for that. The vet wonders if the fast breathing was from the steroid as apparently that is what dogs can get like. The vet spent a long time with Sammy, she also has prescribed panacur just in case, I have to give my other bunny a 9 day treatment and Sammy will have the longer treatment. But I have to take her back in a week anyway and see how she has been getting on. The vet could see her front foot especially is still splaying out but she is definitely better than the other day. She showed me some gentle massage I can do but to stop if Sammy is agitated by me doing it. The vet seemed pretty optimistic with her progress, when she put her on the floor, Sammy went exploring, went in her carry cage but then back out for some more investigating. I asked if I should be encouraging her to get up and move around, the vet said to allow her to move around if she wants but I don't need to encourage her as she thinks Sammy is doing pretty well herself. The vet said she would suspect EC if Sammy was younger but no harm in treating anyway. She ruled out an injury or a balance issue to do with the ears. She suspects (like the other vet did) that is was a stroke. On Sunday I honestly thought that was it and Sammy was going to have to be put down. The way she was sunday evening, it would seem cruel to have kept her like that if she couldn't improve, but she is doing so well, even if she is unstable on her feet! Thanks so much for the advice and love for Sammy :)
 
Sammy&Patch said:
Sammy has improved since sunday :) She has been getting up and hobbling off to her litter tray, she has been trying to clean herself. She was still breathing fast up until yesterday afternoon. She is definitely wanting treats. She has been eating a fair amount of veg, dandelion leaves and treats but not touching her nuggets or hay yet. She is going off to her litter tray and has been peeing and pooing. She had a bit stuck to her bum which I was going to clean but she's just been trying to do it herself a few minutes ago! She has just seen the vet this morning. She had a little crust in her ears so she has been prescribed mite treatment for that. The vet wonders if the fast breathing was from the steroid as apparently that is what dogs can get like. The vet spent a long time with Sammy, she also has prescribed panacur just in case, I have to give my other bunny a 9 day treatment and Sammy will have the longer treatment. But I have to take her back in a week anyway and see how she has been getting on. The vet could see her front foot especially is still splaying out but she is definitely better than the other day. She showed me some gentle massage I can do but to stop if Sammy is agitated by me doing it. The vet seemed pretty optimistic with her progress, when she put her on the floor, Sammy went exploring, went in her carry cage but then back out for some more investigating. I asked if I should be encouraging her to get up and move around, the vet said to allow her to move around if she wants but I don't need to encourage her as she thinks Sammy is doing pretty well herself. The vet said she would suspect EC if Sammy was younger but no harm in treating anyway. She ruled out an injury or a balance issue to do with the ears. She suspects (like the other vet did) that is was a stroke. On Sunday I honestly thought that was it and Sammy was going to have to be put down. The way she was sunday evening, it would seem cruel to have kept her like that if she couldn't improve, but she is doing so well, even if she is unstable on her feet! Thanks so much for the advice and love for Sammy :)
Click to expand...


This is wonderful progress :D

I found these on massage therapy, in case any of it is of use:

http://www.animalphysiotherapy.org.uk/news/physiotherapy-on-the-exotic-patient-cpd

http://www.disabledrabbits.com/massage.html

http://www.disabledrabbits.com/physical-therapy.html
 
ANOTHER UPDATE:
Yesterday afternoon Sammy was relaxing with me for a long while, I let my other bunny come and see her (they can't live together as bonding didn't work but they do have smooching sessions). I was glad to see she stayed relaxed with him and enjoyed it. She has been moving round a fair bit (but very wobbly) and even managed to hop over my legs (in a rather funny way!!!). She seems to be getting used to her feet not working properly and adjusting for it. But I noticed she was drooling a lot, and I mean A LOT! She shook herself and splashed me! I thought it was water first where she had been drinking, I dried it up, I could squeeze water out of her fur. Later I realised it wasn't water as it kept coming back. I had to pop into the vets today to get the Panacur as they had none yesterday, luckily a vet was free for me to ask advice. I was a bit concerned it was a reaction to the mite treatment I had to give her yesterday. Luckily the vet doesn't think it is anything serious, she suspects it is nausea from the her movements, poor Sammy :-( There isn't anything the vet can give her for that but hopefully it will improve. As it stresses Sammy out going to the vet I didn't need to take her in but if she still isn't eating much tomorrow the vet wants to see her anyway. She still won't touch her nuggets or hay but she is eating a bit, unfortunately this drooling seems to be putting her off eating, she eats a bit then gets side tracked trying to clean herself and turns away from the food. The vet did check her teeth yesterday so we're most likely ruling out teeth issues as it literally only just started happening. Thanks again for the help and well wishes, me and Sammy both appreciate it :)
 
Sammy&Patch said:
ANOTHER UPDATE:
Yesterday afternoon Sammy was relaxing with me for a long while, I let my other bunny come and see her (they can't live together as bonding didn't work but they do have smooching sessions). I was glad to see she stayed relaxed with him and enjoyed it. She has been moving round a fair bit (but very wobbly) and even managed to hop over my legs (in a rather funny way!!!). She seems to be getting used to her feet not working properly and adjusting for it. But I noticed she was drooling a lot, and I mean A LOT! She shook herself and splashed me! I thought it was water first where she had been drinking, I dried it up, I could squeeze water out of her fur. Later I realised it wasn't water as it kept coming back. I had to pop into the vets today to get the Panacur as they had none yesterday, luckily a vet was free for me to ask advice. I was a bit concerned it was a reaction to the mite treatment I had to give her yesterday. Luckily the vet doesn't think it is anything serious, she suspects it is nausea from the her movements, poor Sammy :-( There isn't anything the vet can give her for that but hopefully it will improve. As it stresses Sammy out going to the vet I didn't need to take her in but if she still isn't eating much tomorrow the vet wants to see her anyway. She still won't touch her nuggets or hay but she is eating a bit, unfortunately this drooling seems to be putting her off eating, she eats a bit then gets side tracked trying to clean herself and turns away from the food. The vet did check her teeth yesterday so we're most likely ruling out teeth issues as it literally only just started happening. Thanks again for the help and well wishes, me and Sammy both appreciate it :)
Click to expand...


Aaaww I love the way she's managing to get around :)

I'm sorry she's drooling so much. I hate to say it, but it's often teeth related unfortunately.

A vet can't see to the back teeth with an otoscope, and unless a they are skilled in doing 'conscious dentals' (ie filing down teeth without the need for a GA) then it's quite possible that any tooth abnormality at the back of the mouth could have been missed altogether.

However, you have to trust your vet and their judgement at the end of the day, and this is only my experience.

I am pleased she is doing well. Now you have to get her eating again.
Have you tried softening her pellets? Or perhaps mashing them together with a bit of organic baby food and serving it up like that? Or maybe syringe feeding a little?
 
MightyMax said:
How's Sammy doing? :wave:
Click to expand...

Hi, I didn't take Sammy to the vets today, she's eating a bit more (still not pellets or hay but I will try softening the pellets like you suggest). She seems to be getting used to the drooling and is mainly ignoring it, she is happily running around a bit (well trying to) and keeps coming over for lots of attention. In the past when she has been ill she will hide away and not want anyone near her so I'm glad she's still wanting our company. I had a hard time giving her the Panacur (after I had worked out the weird instructions and triple checked I'd got the right dosage, she is bigger than my other bunny so she is getting 2 increments for 28 days, and Gingerbread only has 1 increment for 9 days, confusing!). She has a lot of fur round her face (part lion head), what a mess trying to get the paste in her mouth, coupled with the mess she already has from the drooling bless her! I am maybe going to try hiding it in a dandelion leaf tomorrow and seeing if she will eat it like that! Although the drooling would usually be a teeth issue, it seems such a coincidence it has only just started and it is major drooling. When I take her back next Wednesday I'll get the vet to have another look at her teeth anyway, she's a very experienced vet with small furries and I trust her a lot, I deliberately got the last appointment with her and the next one is with her too. Years ago this vet took care of Sammy overnight after an emergency appointment when she was seriously ill from a blockage, I don't think she would have survived if it had been one of the less experienced vets!
 
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