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Some advice needed re excess cecals (I think)?

Leannean27

Alpha Buck
I'm really struggling with Luna. She's had soft poo a couple of times a day since I had her, it always tends to be after she's eaten pellets or a quantity of forage and now even possibly hay.

I'm literally tearing my hair out and don't really know what to do, I can't get her into the vets until next week.

Her daily routine has usually been:
I go out in the morning, she's got squished poo on her top two tiers, always in the exact same places. I clean this up, give her fresh water, hay, few dried foragey type things and a small handful of excel pellets, and open her hutch up to the run

I check on her about an hour later max and there is squished poo again. I clean it up.

I feed her another small handful of pellets later and top up/ turn her hay and she usually does another squishy poo not long after.

She's been having apple and bramble sticks every day for the last few days as well as 3 fibrefirst sticks. I've even not given her pellets one day and only lots of different hays but still this soft, stinky (cecal?) poo!

She gets through mountains of hay and I just feel so useless and I feel she's got skinnier because I've been doing all this messing about trying to find out what's triggering it - I'm going to weigh her in the morning to see.

Sorry for the rant and long post, I was going to wait until tomorrow but I can't sleep because of it. I feel like I need to start again with her but I don't know how to :(

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I'm really struggling with Luna. She's had soft poo a couple of times a day since I had her, it always tends to be after she's eaten pellets or a quantity of forage and now even possibly hay.

I'm literally tearing my hair out and don't really know what to do, I can't get her into the vets until next week.

Her daily routine has usually been:
I go out in the morning, she's got squished poo on her top two tiers, always in the exact same places. I clean this up, give her fresh water, hay, few dried foragey type things and a small handful of excel pellets, and open her hutch up to the run

I check on her about an hour later max and there is squished poo again. I clean it up.

I feed her another small handful of pellets later and top up/ turn her hay and she usually does another squishy poo not long after.

She's been having apple and bramble sticks every day for the last few days as well as 3 fibrefirst sticks. I've even not given her pellets one day and only lots of different hays but still this soft, stinky (cecal?) poo!

She gets through mountains of hay and I just feel so useless and I feel she's got skinnier because I've been doing all this messing about trying to find out what's triggering it - I'm going to weigh her in the morning to see.

Sorry for the rant and long post, I was going to wait until tomorrow but I can't sleep because of it. I feel like I need to start again with her but I don't know how to :(

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Sorry to hear this :(

Obviously take her to a vet and get some advice but when I was struggling with Atticus my vet said to cut everything out and just feed 1 hay for a week or so then start slowly reintroducing things one at a time - it's takes ages to figure it all out and it's really tricky honestly :(

Hopefully your vet will be able to suggest some things, how many pellets a day does she get? About an egg cup full max? If she gets more I'd start cutting them down and seeing if that helps just them and hay for a bit. Failing that you could look at different brands of pellets, wish I could be more helpful - hope someone who knows what they're talking about will be along soon [emoji38]xx

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I think there are a couple of ways to approach this.

As Graciee said the thorough way is to just feed hay for a week or so and reintroduce things one at a time, making a note of what effect the things have. It is a lengthy process though and you have to make sure that you feed each reintroduced food for long enough to produce a result.

Alternatively there do seem to be a couple of things that I think might be worth trying. Firstly, I agree that reducing the amount of pellets will almost certainly help. Do this gradually though. Additionally, Excel pellets are known to produce a mucky bum in some rabbits and so I would try a different one. Maybe, if she likes them, change her gradually to just Fibafirst sticks.
 
Thanks both, I'm confident she eats lots of hay so if she needs to go hay only for a while I shouldn't think it would be too much of a problem, she does like the fibre first sticks too. Graciee what pellets is Atticus on now? I'm thinking about moving her to oxbow bunny basics or science selective due to the higher fibre content and it's more readily available, I know MM had a problem with excel due to their oil content. Her normal poops are so golden they practically sparkle lol!

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Thanks both, I'm confident she eats lots of hay so if she needs to go hay only for a while I shouldn't think it would be too much of a problem, she does like the fibre first sticks too. Graciee what pellets is Atticus on now? I'm thinking about moving her to oxbow bunny basics or science selective due to the higher fibre content and it's more readily available, I know MM had a problem with excel due to their oil content. Her normal poops are so golden they practically sparkle lol!

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I think what omi said regarding excel pellets is definitely true for some bunnies :)

Atticus is on excel tho [emoji38] he and Clementine don't seem to have an issue with them, I tried oxbow ones and he got very sick, I recently bought the science selective grain free pellets (have to be honest I've avoided these before because Clementine eats so so fast and I'm terrified she'll choke because the pellets are large) he's had a few of them and seems to be fine with them :) I wouldn't let anything I just said though put you off feeding either of those foods to Luna, as what works for her probably wouldn't for Atticus and vice versa - I realised this when trying to figure out his diet - advice would be for instance 'this thing' is super good for buns suffering with 'xyz' and he'd be horribly ill after eating whatever it was [emoji38] and some things which were supposed to be bad.. He ate happily and was fine :)

I'd definitely try switching food and slowly reducing amount per day, but if she's a good hay eater you could always stop for a week and reintroduce one thing at a time but as Omi says, takes a long time you'd probably need to for example cut everything out but hay for a week or so.. Then introduce one thing, the same amount of it for a few days, notice results then if it was a bad result stop feeding it then wait days until output is back to how it was before you introduced it, and then repeat [emoji38]

Hopefully the food is the culprit tho! I think I've read excel is known for causing that issue for lots of bunnies x

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Hello, my Maple had sticky poop messes all over the floor and then she would stand in it. I changed her from excel no problems now xx

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Little update, I cut out pellets and everything but hay for a week and there was no change/ reduction. I then gradually gave her science selective pellets, still no change :(

She went to the vets today about it and the vet prescribed a 9 day panacur course - unsure why exactly she just said to try that and come back after 9 days if she shows no improvement whereby she'll discuss using fibreplex alongside her daily food intake.

Does this sound right to u guys?

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Little update, I cut out pellets and everything but hay for a week and there was no change/ reduction. I then gradually gave her science selective pellets, still no change :(

She went to the vets today about it and the vet prescribed a 9 day panacur course - unsure why exactly she just said to try that and come back after 9 days if she shows no improvement whereby she'll discuss using fibreplex alongside her daily food intake.

Does this sound right to u guys?

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Thank you for your PM :)

Has the vet sent away a sample of the poo for analysis?

The vet should have a reason for giving the 9 day Panacur. It's usually for pinworms.

Fibreplex contains probiotics, so you could try adding in some Avipro or Bio Lapis into the diet?
There's no evidence that either of them work, as the rabbit's stomach acid usually kills off anything useful, but certainly won't do any harm.

https://www.viovet.co.uk/Vetark-Avipro-Plus/c1441/
 
Thank you for your PM :)

Has the vet sent away a sample of the poo for analysis?

The vet should have a reason for giving the 9 day Panacur. It's usually for pinworms.

Fibreplex contains probiotics, so you could try adding in some Avipro or Bio Lapis into the diet?
There's no evidence that either of them work, as the rabbit's stomach acid usually kills off anything useful, but certainly won't do any harm.

https://www.viovet.co.uk/Vetark-Avipro-Plus/c1441/
How old is Luna? I have always experienced young rabbits doing lots of excess cecos? Xx

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She's almost 5 months now, none was sent off for analysis - I was hoping she would do some during the day as I would have taken a sample with me but it seems to have changed to an overnight thing now since she's been with Ralph the last two nights. Yesterday morning there was loads, the most I'd seen it was like she'd been holding it in for ages.

I just want her to be okay :(

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No advice but wanted to say how sorry I am that Luna is unwell.

Both Frosty and Snowflake (who were with me from a few weeks old) had this problem for a weekmor two until I reduced their pellets. I really hope you find a solution for Luna.
 
Thank you Tulsi

She had her first dose of panacur today so hopefully that does something. Thank u MM for pellets, they arrived today so will try those after her panacur has finished too.

I am slightly concerned about changing her pellets again but looking at it from the perspective that if something prevents this for even a few days then that's progress and will continue down that route

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Not for the queasy but I have finally got a pic of Luna's poop before she squishes it all down! Yes I'm excited lol. She's not yet been given any pellets (I was about to clean out and feed) and has only eaten hay/ grass since she had her pellets yesterday around 11/12am.

Shall I bag this up and send to the vets or shall I freeze it maybe until the panacur course has finished. This is the only time since I've had her I've got to it unsquished
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Not for the queasy but I have finally got a pic of Luna's poop before she squishes it all down! Yes I'm excited lol. She's not yet been given any pellets (I was about to clean out and feed) and has only eaten hay/ grass since she had her pellets yesterday around 11/12am.

Shall I bag this up and send to the vets or shall I freeze it maybe until the panacur course has finished. This is the only time since I've had her I've got to it unsquished
d89fc89800c2868e0a26f58f4da4ed5a.jpg


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I would bag it and ask the vet if they want to analyse it now or later and see what they say. And at the same time you could ask what problem they believe the Panacur would be addressing.

Just as well I am not eating - I am a queasy person!!
 
Thank you Tulsi

She had her first dose of panacur today so hopefully that does something. Thank u MM for pellets, they arrived today so will try those after her panacur has finished too.

I am slightly concerned about changing her pellets again but looking at it from the perspective that if something prevents this for even a few days then that's progress and will continue down that route

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You're very welcome :)

I know what you mean about changing pellets again, but when my bun had this problem I changed pretty swiftly because it was clear that what was being fed before was contributing to the problem. She might have a different issue to my rabbit :)
 
Sorry to bring this thread to life again :(

Luna has finished her 9 day Panacur treatment and there has been no change she is still producing excess cecals/ not eating them at all.

Vet no 1 wants to go down the fibreplex route, I don't feel much faith in her or that 'treatment' if I'm honest. She's on a really high fibre diet and her normal droppings are textbook perfect, I may be wrong but does hay/ diet really affect cecals that much anyway?

Vet no 2 wants to examine her physically to make sure (as she has come from a breeder) she hasn't got something wrong physically that will stop her reaching her cecals and dependent on this then do a fecal sample which is £80.

I've literally just cried, feel so stupid haha because I've gone outside and she just sat in a tonne of squashed poo and I'm so worried about fly strike with her as it really stinks :(

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Luna was seen by vet 2 after a fecal sample came back normal who poked and prodded her and couldn't feel anything anatomically as to why she couldn't physically reach down to cecals - in fact Luna seemed to love her little massage and melted into the table!

She was a bit stumped to say the least but we agreed however on a 7 day course of Metacam to see if there is a pain thing with the view of doing an x ray if that helped at all, although I have a feeling an x ray will be the next step regardless. I forgot to ask them but does anyone know what the cost of this would be roughly?

I'm also keeping a daily record of what she eats, drinks, activity levels etc to see if this flags anything up.

I have seen on here before a link to specialists who your vets can contact and talk to, could someone help me with this so I can pass it onto her please as she wants an update on Wednesday? Thank you.

Also put a few pics below of what I face all day everyday on case it jogs anyone's memories/ thoughts
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This must be distressing for you and also worrying as no cause has been found. In the first pic, over how long has this been produced. It's difficult to judge how many caecals a rabbit normally produces in one day as they normally eat them straight away, but that does seem a lot to me. Perhaps someone else knows how many is normal.

Have you started her on the Metacam? It will be interesting to see whether any difference occurs. I don't know the cost of an x-ray I'm sorry.

If there is no improvement with the Metacam, I would be inclined to retry her with hay/grass only for a period longer than a week, which I know you've tried before. It should make the caecals more fibrous and less sticky and she might just find them more palatable. As well as some rabbits tolerating some pellets better than others, it does also seem that some rabbits just can't tolerate any pellets.

Has she never eaten her caecals?
 
I have never seen her eat them which of course I know it's not to say she isn't. I have seen her lay down, do one then walk away like there was no 'trigger' to her brain and I've also seen her maybe lick or take a nibble another time before there were all left behind her

The first pic is what I woke up to yesterday I think it was but u can see in the second and third pic all the staining from these droppings which I'm having to clean up constantly. I have to wipe down daily and disinfect and scrub as best I can once a week too, the floors a mess!

It's so incredibly frustrating. Take today for example. I go out at 8ish and there is a pile the size of a cup rim on second tier of hutch, I clean it up and open lower door to small run. An hour later I go to put them in large run for the day and there are two more, smaller piles on lower level and one outside. There have been none so far in the large run (just checked again) but then I've also not fed pellets today yet either

She had her first dose last night and I'm about to give her a second now along with pellets and fibre sticks and top up hay

She's stretched out, up tall and jumped on top of her hay rack today so can't see it being anatomical.





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I have never seen her eat them which of course I know it's not to say she isn't. I have seen her lay down, do one then walk away like there was no 'trigger' to her brain and I've also seen her maybe lick or take a nibble another time before there were all left behind her

The first pic is what I woke up to yesterday I think it was but u can see in the second and third pic all the staining from these droppings which I'm having to clean up constantly. I have to wipe down daily and disinfect and scrub as best I can once a week too, the floors a mess!

It's so incredibly frustrating. Take today for example. I go out at 8ish and there is a pile the size of a cup rim on second tier of hutch, I clean it up and open lower door to small run. An hour later I go to put them in large run for the day and there are two more, smaller piles on lower level and one outside. There have been none so far in the large run (just checked again) but then I've also not fed pellets today yet either

She had her first dose last night and I'm about to give her a second now along with pellets and fibre sticks and top up hay

She's stretched out, up tall and jumped on top of her hay rack today so can't see it being anatomical.





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I hope things have improved? It could still be anatomical as they have to bend under themselves, she’s not overweight or got a big dewlap at all has she?

For cleaning, if you give it a deep cleaning, leave to dry and then use non slip vynil to stick on the floor it’s easier to clean:thumb:
 
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