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Thread: Heterochromia/Vienna gene?

  1. #11
    New Kit Hermie+Indie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tulsi View Post
    How interesting. Two of my rabbits have blue eyes. One blue eyed white lion head x ? (with a brown eyed brown sister) and one dutch x lionhead, marked like a dutch.







    Oh they are so sweet! And it's so intriguing to see all the different variations of this gene. I think I did read somewhere that lionheads are the most common breed to find a vienna marked bun, not sure why though. I'm sure that calls for another hour-long researching session XD Thank you very much for sharing, it's nice to know another bun mum has the same curiosity about this! And not to mention some adorable rabbits! xx

  2. #12
    New Kit Hermie+Indie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DemiS View Post
    Yep the vienna gene tends to cause white patches and can cause blue eyes too. Some rabbits may just have a tiny patch of white. Also the vienna gene tends to cause dutch-like markings in a lot of rabbits, so quite often vienna marked rabbits will have a white paw or a little nose stripe.



    Bunny one is blue eyed white so has two copies of the vienna gene (one from each parent). Bunny two looks to have a white patch so is a vienna carrier. Bunny three I don't think is actually a Dutch cross (although could possible be a dutch crossed with a blue eyed white/vienna lionhead). Although the dutch marking gene is completely separate to the vienna gene, one copy of the vienna gene can cause markings that are extremely similar to that of a dutch rabbit, even if there are are no Dutch breed ancestors. Also a black and white Dutch rabbit would have brown eyes, because your bunny has blue eyes I think the vienna gene is most likely to be causing those markings. Like look at this bunny, it's a purebred holland lop (what we'd call a mini lop in the UK), no Dutch in there, but it's vienna gene is causing the blue eyes and Dutch-like markings




    This website explains the gene well - http://wintertimebunnies.blogspot.co...enna-gene.html
    Ooh this is interesting! So does this mean as Rowan only has small patches of white and blue eyes, that he is only a carrier? I did think that the gene was only physically apparent when both parents had the gene. I don't know who his parents are as I rescued him, but I assume that one parent was a vienna carrier, and one was not?
    Thank you so much for the information! I'll have a look at the link in a sec xx

  3. #13
    New Kit Hermie+Indie's Avatar
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    Just got some pictures, I'll post in a sec!

  4. #14
    New Kit Hermie+Indie's Avatar
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    Uh oh, here come he technical problems... I've only had an account here for a couple months and I've never posted a photo! It would be great to know how to do this, I've had many tried-and-failed attempts
    Last edited by Hermie+Indie; 07-06-2018 at 08:11 AM.

  5. #15
    Wise Old Thumper MightyMax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hermie+Indie View Post
    Uh oh, here come he technical problems... I've only had an account here for a couple months and I've never posted a photo! It would be great to know how to do this, I've had many tried-and-failed attempts

    These links may help you with posting photos:

    http://forums.rabbitrehome.org.uk/sh...nother-website

    http://forums.rabbitrehome.org.uk/sh...to-Post-Photos

    https://postimages.org

    Photobucket isn't working, so you may have to register with Imgur or another photo-hosting site
    Please vaccinate your rabbits for RHD2 as well ..
    Two more house rabbit deaths just confirmed


    Reliable, up to date advice on RHD2: http://forums.rabbitrehome.org.uk/sh...40#post7012340

  6. #16
    Warren Veteran DemiS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hermie+Indie View Post
    Ooh this is interesting! So does this mean as Rowan only has small patches of white and blue eyes, that he is only a carrier? I did think that the gene was only physically apparent when both parents had the gene. I don't know who his parents are as I rescued him, but I assume that one parent was a vienna carrier, and one was not?
    Thank you so much for the information! I'll have a look at the link in a sec xx
    Yep that's right. So if a rabbit is fully white with blue eyes they have two copies of the vienna gene. Two blue eyed white parents (two copies of vienna gene) would always produce blue eyed white babies. A BEW parent and a vienna carrier (one copy of vienna gene) would produce some BEW babies and some vienna carriers (about 50% BEW, 50% vienna carriers). If you breed two vienna carriers then 50% of them would be vienna carriers, 25% BEW and 25% would have no vienna gene at all.


    If a rabbit has only one copy of the vienna gene then you might see blue eyes or white areas (this could be a tiny spot on the nose up to full Dutch-like markings), like with your Rowan, but with some vienna carriers they have a copy of the gene but you can't tell from the outside. They don't have vienna markings but they are still carriers of the vienna gene. He could have had one BEW parent and one non-vienna carrying parent, a BEW parent and a vienna-carrying parent, two vienna-carrying parent or one vienna-carrying parent and one non-vienna carrying parent.

    Basically we can use letters to represent the genes. Capital V = vienna gene, lower case v = not vienna
    VV = two copies of vienna gene, rabbit will be blue eyed white
    Vv = one vienna gene, rabbit is a vienna carrier, might have some white patches or blue eyes
    vv = no vienna gene at all

    Mum will have two genes (which could be vienna (V) or not (v)), dad will have two, so mum and dad together have four genes but the babies only need two. This is why mum's eggs and dad's sperm only have ONE gene each, so that when an egg and sperm pair up you get a baby with two genes.

    For example if you have a mum and dad that are both carriers (Vv). Half of mums eggs will have a single V vienna gene, the other half will have the non-vienna v gene. Same with dads sperm. If a V egg and a V sperm meet up, you've got yourself a BEW baby with two copies of the vienna gene (VV). If the egg is V and sperm is v (or the other way around, egg v and sperm V) then you've got a Vv vienna carrier. If the sperm and egg both have the v non-vienna gene then the baby does not carry vienna.

    Because each parent has two genes but their sperm/egg only has one of those, when a sperm and egg meet there are four different combinations of that gene possible for the babies. This is why when you look at the links people have provided, the combinations are usually shown as a square like this:



    The parents are shown on the outside, they are both vienna carriers (Vv). Remember that their sperm or egg will only have one gene, either V or v. You can see that if V and V match up you get a BEW, V and v you get a carrier and v and v you get a non-vienna carrier. This shows you four babies, one BEW, one non-carrier and than two vienna carriers. So this tells us that if you breed two vienna carrying rabbits together, half of the babies would be expected to be carriers, a quarter not carriers and the other quarter blue eyed white
    Last edited by DemiS; 07-06-2018 at 12:37 PM.
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  7. #17
    New Kit Hermie+Indie's Avatar
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    Thank you for the tech help! I've got the hang of it now.




    ^Right eye

    ^I didn't mention this, but Rowan does have some tiny white hairs dotted on his back, pretty sure this is associated with the gene too

    ^Left eye

    ^Looking closely you can see the small white patch

    ^And here is his cute little button nose




    ^ And some bloopers I guess XD He wouldn't stop binkying! So in the end I had to bribe him with kale

  8. #18
    New Kit Hermie+Indie's Avatar
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    Wow this is amazing! So interesting to learn about this, and thank you so much for typing all that out! Really helpful for my understanding of it, awesome! xx
    Quote Originally Posted by DemiS View Post
    Yep that's right. So if a rabbit is fully white with blue eyes they have two copies of the vienna gene. Two blue eyed white parents (two copies of vienna gene) would always produce blue eyed white babies. A BEW parent and a vienna carrier (one copy of vienna gene) would produce some BEW babies and some vienna carriers (about 50% BEW, 50% vienna carriers). If you breed two vienna carriers then 50% of them would be vienna carriers, 25% BEW and 25% would have no vienna gene at all.


    If a rabbit has only one copy of the vienna gene then you might see blue eyes or white areas (this could be a tiny spot on the nose up to full Dutch-like markings), like with your Rowan, but with some vienna carriers they have a copy of the gene but you can't tell from the outside. They don't have vienna markings but they are still carriers of the vienna gene. He could have had one BEW parent and one non-vienna carrying parent, a BEW parent and a vienna-carrying parent, two vienna-carrying parent or one vienna-carrying parent and one non-vienna carrying parent.

    Basically we can use letters to represent the genes. Capital V = vienna gene, lower case v = not vienna
    VV = two copies of vienna gene, rabbit will be blue eyed white
    Vv = one vienna gene, rabbit is a vienna carrier, might have some white patches or blue eyes
    vv = no vienna gene at all

    Mum will have two genes (which could be vienna (V) or not (v)), dad will have two, so mum and dad together have four genes but the babies only need two. This is why mum's eggs and dad's sperm only have ONE gene each, so that when an egg and sperm pair up you get a baby with two genes.

    For example if you have a mum and dad that are both carriers (Vv). Half of mums eggs will have a single V vienna gene, the other half will have the non-vienna v gene. Same with dads sperm. If a V egg and a V sperm meet up, you've got yourself a BEW baby with two copies of the vienna gene (VV). If the egg is V and sperm is v (or the other way around, egg v and sperm V) then you've got a Vv vienna carrier. If the sperm and egg both have the v non-vienna gene then the baby does not carry vienna.

    Because each parent has two genes but their sperm/egg only has one of those, when a sperm and egg meet there are four different combinations of that gene possible for the babies. This is why when you look at the links people have provided, the combinations are usually shown as a square like this:



    The parents are shown on the outside, they are both vienna carriers (Vv). Remember that their sperm or egg will only have one gene, either V or v. You can see that if V and V match up you get a BEW, V and v you get a carrier and v and v you get a non-vienna carrier. This shows you four babies, one BEW, one non-carrier and than two vienna carriers. So this tells us that if you breed two vienna carrying rabbits together, half of the babies would be expected to be carriers, a quarter not carriers and the other quarter blue eyed white

  9. #19
    Wise Old Thumper tulsi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hermie+Indie View Post
    Thank you for the tech help! I've got the hang of it now.




    ^Right eye

    ^I didn't mention this, but Rowan does have some tiny white hairs dotted on his back, pretty sure this is associated with the gene too

    ^Left eye

    ^Looking closely you can see the small white patch

    ^And here is his cute little button nose




    ^ And some bloopers I guess XD He wouldn't stop binkying! So in the end I had to bribe him with kale
    Lovely pics. Good to know he is happy, even if it did mean a few bloopers!

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