Help needed please???

Hi all, it's been a while since I've been on, and as always I need some advice please: I've got Obi (5) and Elmo (4) two wonderful boy house bunnies.

Elmo - was a rescue and came to me quite thin (could feel his spine and hip bones), he's a tiny lion head lop...he eats and drinks well (lots of hay (both very plain hay and the Burgess Camomile and dandelion hays...which I tend to think are a bit richer?) and Selective pellets)...but he always seems to have a messy (smelly) bottom, he's got no front teeth and the beginning of some tiny spurs (vet checked recently) but he's eating fine just seems to be losing the weight he gained, he has such watery eyes but his fluff is always in his eyes I try to remove daily....I give him just 5 pellets daily now and endless hay...? He has a small amount of greens (coriander) and I tried some kale last night...he loved that ...but I must be honest Obi had bloat and I almost lost him which the vet blamed on the greens causing gas to build up so I have a real fear of feeding greens to either of my boys....

Obi - very messy bottom at the moment, been moulting for about 2 weeks, his poor coat looks so tufty and messy he has the same diet as Elmo, and last night noticed he has a watery eye that's just appeared .... Obi also has no front teeth...

Both bunny are snuffle buns, but I keep a check on that and at the moment they are just sneezing now and then, no nose discharge...or any other signs that has flared up....

Where am I going wrong?!!?
Thanks
Colette x

Colly said:

Hi all, it's been a while since I've been on, and as always I need some advice please: I've got Obi (5) and Elmo (4) two wonderful boy house bunnies.

Elmo - was a rescue and came to me quite thin (could feel his spine and hip bones), he's a tiny lion head lop...he eats and drinks well (lots of hay (both very plain hay and the Burgess Camomile and dandelion hays...which I tend to think are a bit richer?) and Selective pellets)...but he always seems to have a messy (smelly) bottom, he's got no front teeth and the beginning of some tiny spurs (vet checked recently) but he's eating fine just seems to be losing the weight he gained, he has such watery eyes but his fluff is always in his eyes I try to remove daily....I give him just 5 pellets daily now and endless hay...? He has a small amount of greens (coriander) and I tried some kale last night...he loved that ...but I must be honest Obi had bloat and I almost lost him which the vet blamed on the greens causing gas to build up so I have a real fear of feeding greens to either of my boys....

Obi - very messy bottom at the moment, been moulting for about 2 weeks, his poor coat looks so tufty and messy he has the same diet as Elmo, and last night noticed he has a watery eye that's just appeared .... Obi also has no front teeth...

Both bunny are snuffle buns, but I keep a check on that and at the moment they are just sneezing now and then, no nose discharge...or any other signs that has flared up....

Where am I going wrong?!!?
Thanks
Colette x

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Bunnies with no front teeth can find it a bit more difficult to keep their bums clean. Also, are they able to eat a lot of hay- ie does it make up at least 80% of their diet ? Some, but not all, incisorless Rabbits are not able to eat enough hay and consequently rely more on a pellet feed for their calorific intake. If this is the case that can mean that they are producing excess cecotrophs. Although from what you have said if they are only having 5 SS pellets a day and they are not loosing weight at all then they must be eating a fair amount of hay.

Will they eat Fibafirst Sticks ? Whilst they are not a real substitute for hay they do have a higher crude fibre content than Science Selective.

https://supremepetfoods.com/fiba-first-2/

I am sure that you are well aware of the risks of flystrike for Rabbits prone to having a mucky bum. I would suggest having the fur around their rear ends shaved so that you can more easily keep on top of bum baths and they wont be left with lots of damp fur. I would also try to minimise the risk of flies getting access to the Rabbit's environment. Using fly netting, electronic fly zappers and of course A* husbandry will help to do this. Some people use a topical product on the Rabbit as a means of Flystrike protection. Personally I have never done so, but the products often recommended are Rearguard https://www.animeddirect.co.uk/rear...3D5DNX8MwqKZIGH9kaMPtHzpFkWxtngBoCihEQAvD_BwE

or F10 Wound Spray + Insecticide https://www.viovet.co.uk/F10-Products-Germicidal-Wound-Spray-with-Insecticide/c22592/

The watery eyes may be associated with the Dental problems. I am assuming that both Rabbits had skull radiographs taken before having their Incisors removed ? Skull radiographs are the only way that a Vet can assess the tooth roots and bone of the jaws.



If the Rabbits have not had a very recent Vet check then personally that is what I would do as the first course of action. You could discuss the points mentioned above with your Vet and see what he/she thinks.

Colly said:

Hi all, it's been a while since I've been on, and as always I need some advice please: I've got Obi (5) and Elmo (4) two wonderful boy house bunnies.

Elmo - was a rescue and came to me quite thin (could feel his spine and hip bones), he's a tiny lion head lop...he eats and drinks well (lots of hay (both very plain hay and the Burgess Camomile and dandelion hays...which I tend to think are a bit richer?) and Selective pellets)...but he always seems to have a messy (smelly) bottom, he's got no front teeth and the beginning of some tiny spurs (vet checked recently) but he's eating fine just seems to be losing the weight he gained, he has such watery eyes but his fluff is always in his eyes I try to remove daily....I give him just 5 pellets daily now and endless hay...? He has a small amount of greens (coriander) and I tried some kale last night...he loved that ...but I must be honest Obi had bloat and I almost lost him which the vet blamed on the greens causing gas to build up so I have a real fear of feeding greens to either of my boys....

Obi - very messy bottom at the moment, been moulting for about 2 weeks, his poor coat looks so tufty and messy he has the same diet as Elmo, and last night noticed he has a watery eye that's just appeared .... Obi also has no front teeth...

Both bunny are snuffle buns, but I keep a check on that and at the moment they are just sneezing now and then, no nose discharge...or any other signs that has flared up....

Where am I going wrong?!!?
Thanks
Colette x

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Hi Colette :wave:

I think you posted earlier, as I recall seeing your post before today? I am sorry I didn't have time to respond at the time, but good that you've reposted

Usually a messy bottom is linked with excess protein or carbs, but that's not always the case. With one of my rabbits I had to change the pellets to a higher fibre brand and that worked well for him. Fiabfirst sticks are good for teeth wear also, but beware that they do contain ingredients that *could* contribute to a messy bottom.

If you need to put a bit of weight on a bunny (and especially those with no front teeth!) then readigrass is easy to eat, and also I give a pinch of dry porridge oats morning and evening. Those two things will work a treat

To be fair, it sounds like your buns have a depleted immune system, with everything that's going on for them. Moulting also makes them look messy and they need some more calories to cope with that. Have you ever thought of trying echinacea to boost their immune system? You can get it in capsules (I just open a capsule and put it onto food) or you can get it in liquid form:

https://www.baldwins.co.uk/baldwins-echinacea-angustifolia-herbal-fluid-extract


Also, instead of greens can you try forage? Bramble leaves are very good for digestion and often hit the nail on the head with messy bums. But there's lots more besides those and dandelions ...

http://www.kanin.org/?q=node/193

http://www.actionforrabbits.co.uk/Plants toxic to rabbits.pdf

http://www.actionforrabbits.co.uk/Toxic & Safe Plants v2.pdf


https://www.harcourt-brown.co.uk/articles/free-food-for-rabbits

https://www.harcourt-brown.co.uk/articles/free-food-for-rabbits/foraging

And a very good book written by Twigs Way called 'Foraging for Rabbits' which can be purchased from the RWAF bookshop


Also:

http://www.medirabbit.com/EN/GI_diseases/Food/feeding_en.pdf


Feel free to contact me privately, as I have over 25 years experience of toothless bunnies

Hi both :wave: I'm just heading out but wanted to say a very quick and HUGE thank you to you and will reply properly later and Mighty Max I'll definitely be in touch. X

Colly said:

Hi both :wave: I'm just heading out but wanted to say a very quick and HUGE thank you to you and will reply properly later and Mighty Max I'll definitely be in touch. X

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You're very welcome and I would be delighted to be in touch :wave: