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have you successfully kept un-neutered female rabbits together??

trixibelle

Young Bun
Hi everyone

I have my pair of bonded female rabbits (6 months) booked in to be neutered in the morning and I’m now having second thoughts! I am aware of the advice regarding cancer/behaviour but I have done a lot of research and there are conflicting opinions of vets in BMA journals regarding ethics so I really want to hear about your personal experiences.

Have you successfully kept un-neutered female rabbits together? Or did they fall out eventually?

Have you had an un-neutered female rabbit get uterine cancer or have phantom pregnancies?

Thanks so much for your help ☺️☺️☺️
 
Everyone's experiences are different, some are good some bad, yours will be unique to you. I do believe spaying is the better way but prefer my Does to be paired off with Bucks. Are your 2 sisters and is one the dominant one?
 
2 un-neutered female rabbits living together is one thing I would avoid at all costs. Girls get feisty enough anyway, without risking two hormonal does fighting. I would be very surprised if they didn't fight in the next couple of months, and then they would probably need vet attention to repair the damage, plus a broken bond to deal with.

If you have talked it all through with your vet and you are happy that they have experience in neutering rabbits (which I assume was the case when you booked the appointment), I would take them in to be spayed together while they are healthy and happy, and can recover together. For me, the alternative doesn't bear thinking about.

Link from the RWAF for info:
https://rabbitwelfare.co.uk/rabbit-health/neutering/
 
I've heard of it, and yes it can be done, but its usually in extreme cases. a friend of mine has two unspayed does (sisters) living together. unfortunately every time they have been put under they've nearly lost them so its just not able to be done. however, she has had a lot of fights and has ended up with vet bills to stitch them back together again!

its somewhat cruel in my opinion to have rabbits, or any animal unfixed when it is possible. they are a slave to their hormones resulting in aggression, phantom pregnancies, nesting and so fourth. its just not fair on them. most rabbits you'll find in shelters have been giving up due to "aggression problems" meanwhile simply spaying them would have fixed it. animals don't really have morals or understanding, all they care about is passing their genes onto the next generation in order to support the survival of their species. if you have no plan on breeding, then you deny them that which often results in frustration.

females are incredibly territorial compared to males and the most feisty out of the two. without having them both spayed I wouldn't be surprised if they fall out and injure themselves very soon.

all females that are unspayed will at some point suffer phantom pregnancies and build nests. its not nice for them to have. I suppose you could compare it to a woman's monthly but we can make our own choices on how to control that via medication or start a family. a rabbit can't and its fate is in your hands.

there has been a study of a colony of rabbits for many years, and after each one died they had a post mortem preformed on them. roughly the rabbits that were 5-6 years old, 80% of them had uterine tumours of some kind. they may have not died from the cancer, but they could have if they lived any longer. uterine cancer (or infections) is a serious risk and it costs more to possibly fix it than it does to spay, if the rabbit even can be saved. the older the rabbit, the higher the risk. but this study has been hugely debated and some say it is not credible.

there is a risk of anaesthesia, like with any animal or human. rabbits are more susceptible to it, but as long as you find a rabbit savvy vet everything should go smoothly. its been widely argued that the risk of anaesthesia is lower than the risk of cancer.

the members of RU are always happy to offer advice, and help find a rabbit savvy vet if you should need it.

here are some links for you:
https://rabbit.org/faq-spaying-and-neutering/ : information on spaying and neutering
https://www.vets4pets.com/pet-health-advice/rabbit-advice/neutering-your-rabbit/ : information on spaying and neutering
https://www.saveafluff.co.uk/rabbit-info/neutering-spaying-rabbits : information on spaying and neutering
https://rabbit.org/care/bibliography.html : a few studies
https://rabbitwelfare.co.uk/rabbit-care-advice/rabbit-friendly-vets/rabbit-friendly-vet-list/ : a rabbit approved vet list, all vet practices on here have a rabbit savvy vet so you know you're safe with them :)
 
Hi everyone

I have my pair of bonded female rabbits (6 months) booked in to be neutered in the morning and I’m now having second thoughts! I am aware of the advice regarding cancer/behaviour but I have done a lot of research and there are conflicting opinions of vets in BMA journals regarding ethics so I really want to hear about your personal experiences.

Have you successfully kept un-neutered female rabbits together? Or did they fall out eventually? Yes. No, they didn't fall out eventually.

Have you had an un-neutered female rabbit get uterine cancer or have phantom pregnancies? Possibly.

Thanks so much for your help ☺️☺️☺️

Answers in bold.

This was when I was growing up and didn't know anything about spaying rabbits. Just got lucky I guess in that we never had problems with them fighting or anything. No phantom pregnancies or building nests that I knew of either. I had one rabbit that might have had uterine cancer but I don't really know for sure. The rabbits were also gotten together as babies so there was no bonding process to go through (except once, when Bonnie kept getting through the separator and bonded herself to Ginger when they were both adults).

Nowadays I reckon I'd always have females spayed just because of uterine cancer if nothing else. As long as the vet is experienced it's very unlikely there should be an issue with spaying. Far more likely that cancer would crop up. I've heard of a lot of instances where vets find cancer in 3+ year old rabbits when they're in the process of doing a routine spay on them.
 
Hi everyone

I have my pair of bonded female rabbits (6 months) booked in to be neutered in the morning and I’m now having second thoughts! I am aware of the advice regarding cancer/behaviour but I have done a lot of research and there are conflicting opinions of vets in BMA journals regarding ethics so I really want to hear about your personal experiences.

Have you successfully kept un-neutered female rabbits together? Or did they fall out eventually? Yes two sisters, occasional scratches because they would face hump but they loved each other unconditionally

Have you had an un-neutered female rabbit get uterine cancer or have phantom pregnancies? Yes, one definitely died of cancer, potentially both at the ages of around 8 & 10

Thanks so much for your help ☺️☺️☺️

My advice to you would be 100% get them spayed. There is nothing worse than witnessing the rabbits you love experiencing pain that you could have prevented with having knowledge of the risks. When we adopted Penfold and Dangermouse from my aunt, we had no idea about any of it.
 
I had 2 females that had been living together for 18 months before they came to me. They were unspayed and got on mostly OK, but they got on so much better after spaying (takes a little while for the hormone levels to drop though).
 
2 un-neutered female rabbits living together is one thing I would avoid at all costs. Girls get feisty enough anyway, without risking two hormonal does fighting. I would be very surprised if they didn't fight in the next couple of months, and then they would probably need vet attention to repair the damage, plus a broken bond to deal with.

If you have talked it all through with your vet and you are happy that they have experience in neutering rabbits (which I assume was the case when you booked the appointment), I would take them in to be spayed together while they are healthy and happy, and can recover together. For me, the alternative doesn't bear thinking about.

Link from the RWAF for info:
https://rabbitwelfare.co.uk/rabbit-health/neutering/

Ditto :)

Good luck with whatever you decide trixibelle x
 
Thanks for your replies- I am going to go ahead because of the cancer risk but I just can’t get out of my head that I’m mutilating my rabbits for behaving like rabbits! The RWAF explains that neutering doesn’t rid rabbits completely of their hormones and I feel a large part of why it is advocated is because of the amount that are abandoned. I love mine how they are now so I’m not interested in doing anything that will make it easier for me. I know there’s doubt about the studies regarding uterine cancer but I’ve decided based on the testiment of those involved in rabbit rescues who have posted on this forum so I am grateful for the existence of it and everyone that takes part!

I am lucky to live close to an exotic vet who actually treat rabbits for the RSPCA so I have no concerns about their ability to do the procedure. I just don’t want to put them through such a serious surgery and experience and it’s hard when it’s for no immediate reason- they are perfect happy little rabbits 😭😭

X
 
I've heard of it, and yes it can be done, but its usually in extreme cases. a friend of mine has two unspayed does (sisters) living together. unfortunately every time they have been put under they've nearly lost them so its just not able to be done. however, she has had a lot of fights and has ended up with vet bills to stitch them back together again!

its somewhat cruel in my opinion to have rabbits, or any animal unfixed when it is possible. they are a slave to their hormones resulting in aggression, phantom pregnancies, nesting and so fourth. its just not fair on them. most rabbits you'll find in shelters have been giving up due to "aggression problems" meanwhile simply spaying them would have fixed it. animals don't really have morals or understanding, all they care about is passing their genes onto the next generation in order to support the survival of their species. if you have no plan on breeding, then you deny them that which often results in frustration.

females are incredibly territorial compared to males and the most feisty out of the two. without having them both spayed I wouldn't be surprised if they fall out and injure themselves very soon.

all females that are unspayed will at some point suffer phantom pregnancies and build nests. its not nice for them to have. I suppose you could compare it to a woman's monthly but we can make our own choices on how to control that via medication or start a family. a rabbit can't and its fate is in your hands.

there has been a study of a colony of rabbits for many years, and after each one died they had a post mortem preformed on them. roughly the rabbits that were 5-6 years old, 80% of them had uterine tumours of some kind. they may have not died from the cancer, but they could have if they lived any longer. uterine cancer (or infections) is a serious risk and it costs more to possibly fix it than it does to spay, if the rabbit even can be saved. the older the rabbit, the higher the risk. but this study has been hugely debated and some say it is not credible.

there is a risk of anaesthesia, like with any animal or human. rabbits are more susceptible to it, but as long as you find a rabbit savvy vet everything should go smoothly. its been widely argued that the risk of anaesthesia is lower than the risk of cancer.

the members of RU are always happy to offer advice, and help find a rabbit savvy vet if you should need it.

here are some links for you:
https://rabbit.org/faq-spaying-and-neutering/ : information on spaying and neutering
https://www.vets4pets.com/pet-health-advice/rabbit-advice/neutering-your-rabbit/ : information on spaying and neutering
https://www.saveafluff.co.uk/rabbit-info/neutering-spaying-rabbits : information on spaying and neutering
https://rabbit.org/care/bibliography.html : a few studies
https://rabbitwelfare.co.uk/rabbit-care-advice/rabbit-friendly-vets/rabbit-friendly-vet-list/ : a rabbit approved vet list, all vet practices on here have a rabbit savvy vet so you know you're safe with them :)


I agree :D

Lots of very useful info here.

Good luck trixibelle x
 
Hi everyone

I have my pair of bonded female rabbits (6 months) booked in to be neutered in the morning and I’m now having second thoughts! I am aware of the advice regarding cancer/behaviour but I have done a lot of research and there are conflicting opinions of vets in BMA journals regarding ethics so I really want to hear about your personal experiences.

Have you successfully kept un-neutered female rabbits together? Or did they fall out eventually?

Have you had an un-neutered female rabbit get uterine cancer or have phantom pregnancies?

Thanks so much for your help ☺️☺️☺️

Have you successfully kept un-neutered female rabbits together? Or did they fall out eventually?
Kept a mum and daughter together unspayed for about a year but they ended up fighting

Have you had an un-neutered female rabbit get uterine cancer or have phantom pregnancies?
Yes, lots of phantom pregnancies and females who end up being right little hormonal cows until spayed (one of mine was really aggressive until spayed). One girl in particular I put off spaying until she was three years old, she's still young I thought, I knew cancer was a risk but I thought it wouldn't happen until she was older. Anyway she seemed perfectly fine but when she turned three I booked her in for a spay and they found a huge tumour that had grown so big it killed off one of her kidneys and nearly took part of her bowel with it. The spay saved her life and she lived for many happy years, but if I'd of waited a few more weeks she would have died. I felt so guilty for leaving it so late, she must have been in so much pain but she didn't even show it bless her :(

Vets do have differing opinions, but to be honest a lot of them are just absolutely clueless about rabbits and think that any operation on them is an enormous risk. If you see a vet who is truly rabbit savvy they will always recommend spaying (unless rabbit had a really serious health condition or something). My local vet carry out rabbit spays every day of the week, it's very rare that something goes wrong, but it is incredibly common for them to find rabbits with uterine cancer (usually during the spay of an older rabbit or post-mortem).

ETA: Please make sure you use a rabbit savvy vet. Also some practices offer a blood test before the operation, I think it cost me about £15 but it gave me peace of mind that my girls kidneys and liver were functioning well
 
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ETA: Please make sure you use a rabbit savvy vet. Also some practices offer a blood test before the operation, I think it cost me about £15 but it gave me peace of mind that my girls kidneys and liver were functioning well

I request this for my Rabbits x
 
Have you successfully kept un-neutered female rabbits together? Or did they fall out eventually?
Kept a mum and daughter together unspayed for about a year but they ended up fighting

Have you had an un-neutered female rabbit get uterine cancer or have phantom pregnancies?
Yes, lots of phantom pregnancies and females who end up being right little hormonal cows until spayed (one of mine was really aggressive until spayed). One girl in particular I put off spaying until she was three years old, she's still young I thought, I knew cancer was a risk but I thought it wouldn't happen until she was older. Anyway she seemed perfectly fine but when she turned three I booked her in for a spay and they found a huge tumour that had grown so big it killed off one of her kidneys and nearly took part of her bowel with it. The spay saved her life and she lived for many happy years, but if I'd of waited a few more weeks she would have died. I felt so guilty for leaving it so late, she must have been in so much pain but she didn't even show it bless her :(

Vets do have differing opinions, but to be honest a lot of them are just absolutely clueless about rabbits and think that any operation on them is an enormous risk. If you see a vet who is truly rabbit savvy they will always recommend spaying (unless rabbit had a really serious health condition or something). My local vet carry out rabbit spays every day of the week, it's very rare that something goes wrong, but it is incredibly common for them to find rabbits with uterine cancer (usually during the spay of an older rabbit or post-mortem).

ETA: Please make sure you use a rabbit savvy vet. Also some practices offer a blood test before the operation, I think it cost me about £15 but it gave me peace of mind that my girls kidneys and liver were functioning well


£15 is a bargain. My vet charges over £100 for this :thumb:
 
Thanks for your replies- I am going to go ahead because of the cancer risk but I just can’t get out of my head that I’m mutilating my rabbits for behaving like rabbits! The RWAF explains that neutering doesn’t rid rabbits completely of their hormones and I feel a large part of why it is advocated is because of the amount that are abandoned. I love mine how they are now so I’m not interested in doing anything that will make it easier for me. I know there’s doubt about the studies regarding uterine cancer but I’ve decided based on the testiment of those involved in rabbit rescues who have posted on this forum so I am grateful for the existence of it and everyone that takes part!

I am lucky to live close to an exotic vet who actually treat rabbits for the RSPCA so I have no concerns about their ability to do the procedure. I just don’t want to put them through such a serious surgery and experience and it’s hard when it’s for no immediate reason- they are perfect happy little rabbits 😭😭

X

you really aren't mutilating your rabbits however, and you're not doing it for them behaving like they are. you're doing it for a good reason (health) and to keep them happy. without the spay they may fall out, bite you, rip up carpets in frustration. mutilating would be doing it because you want to with no benefit, or because it looks good. so please don't feel bad. you're prolonging said bunnies life, for a happy and healthy one.

while not all of the hormones are gone, most are. there will be no more phantom pregnancies, nest building, spraying for males. they're a lot happier and calmer and can live with a friend. it can take stress off of you as well as you don't have to worry about fights etc. you may get some spring hormones where they bounce around and get very excited and hyper, but that's it really.

the thing is, people need to separate animals from humans. animals don't have morals. they don't share excitement from getting a litter. they don't see any happiness in it. animals are there to pass on their genes in the survival of the fittest to ensure the survival of their species. as humans, we have a luxury. we don't feel that urge as much and can choose when we have kids, we can mange the pain, we can manage our hormones all together. animals do not have such a luxury.

please do not feel bad. you are doing the right thing for them.
 
you really aren't mutilating your rabbits however, and you're not doing it for them behaving like they are. you're doing it for a good reason (health) and to keep them happy. without the spay they may fall out, bite you, rip up carpets in frustration. mutilating would be doing it because you want to with no benefit, or because it looks good. so please don't feel bad. you're prolonging said bunnies life, for a happy and healthy one.

while not all of the hormones are gone, most are. there will be no more phantom pregnancies, nest building, spraying for males. they're a lot happier and calmer and can live with a friend. it can take stress off of you as well as you don't have to worry about fights etc. you may get some spring hormones where they bounce around and get very excited and hyper, but that's it really.

the thing is, people need to separate animals from humans. animals don't have morals. they don't share excitement from getting a litter. they don't see any happiness in it. animals are there to pass on their genes in the survival of the fittest to ensure the survival of their species. as humans, we have a luxury. we don't feel that urge as much and can choose when we have kids, we can mange the pain, we can manage our hormones all together. animals do not have such a luxury.

please do not feel bad. you are doing the right thing for them.

Excellent point bc, anthropomorphism usually does animals no favours at all
 
you really aren't mutilating your rabbits however, and you're not doing it for them behaving like they are. you're doing it for a good reason (health) and to keep them happy. without the spay they may fall out, bite you, rip up carpets in frustration. mutilating would be doing it because you want to with no benefit, or because it looks good. so please don't feel bad. you're prolonging said bunnies life, for a happy and healthy one.

while not all of the hormones are gone, most are. there will be no more phantom pregnancies, nest building, spraying for males. they're a lot happier and calmer and can live with a friend. it can take stress off of you as well as you don't have to worry about fights etc. you may get some spring hormones where they bounce around and get very excited and hyper, but that's it really.

the thing is, people need to separate animals from humans. animals don't have morals. they don't share excitement from getting a litter. they don't see any happiness in it. animals are there to pass on their genes in the survival of the fittest to ensure the survival of their species. as humans, we have a luxury. we don't feel that urge as much and can choose when we have kids, we can mange the pain, we can manage our hormones all together. animals do not have such a luxury.

please do not feel bad. you are doing the right thing for them.


I agree - rabbits can get very frustrated with their hormones flying about :) It's a risk to be sure, as an anaesthetic isn't tolerated in rabbits as well as in a cat or dog. However, I believe it to be worthwhile in the long run as the rabbits will be more settled, and most importantly, will have a chance at living together. Company is Ace for rabbits :thumb:
 
As an answer to the original question without reading all replies - yes.

I keep all my breeding does in pairs, this year I downsized from 3 duos to 2. Main reason for keeping them in duos is that the social interaction by far outweights the problems, it needs much more space than keeping single rabbits, but imho it is worth it. Even that tensions imho are to some point positive, lot's of exercise.

There are times when the dominant doe is, simply put, an *******, but when the other doe has enough space to get out of sight for half a day it's ok.

It's great having them litters at the same time, there#s a hord of kits, both does protect and feed all. Even if there's only one litter the other doe is a great stepmom.

There are rabbits that are more happy alone though, I sold those off.

One thing to mention- all my pairs are mother-daughter, so I never did actual bonding.
 
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£15 is a bargain. My vet charges over £100 for this :thumb:

I just checked with my other half and he said it was £25. It might not have been thorough as the one your vet does though! They're done on site. They're a very low cost vet, but really good too (not like some other low cost vets I've been to before that were absolutely terrible), spays are £55 :D From the blood test they found a result that was a bit abnormal, could be a liver problem but was most likely because she was very young and still growing, but as a precaution they did the extra fluids thing (I can't remember what it's called but I think they give fluids throughout surgery and after rather than just before, supposed to help with recovery)
 
I just checked with my other half and he said it was £25. It might not have been thorough as the one your vet does though! They're done on site. They're a very low cost vet, but really good too (not like some other low cost vets I've been to before that were absolutely terrible), spays are £55 :D From the blood test they found a result that was a bit abnormal, could be a liver problem but was most likely because she was very young and still growing, but as a precaution they did the extra fluids thing (I can't remember what it's called but I think they give fluids throughout surgery and after rather than just before, supposed to help with recovery)


That's still a bargain :) I haven't been to a low cost vet, I didn't know such ones existed :)

My vet is quite expensive for spays and on occasion I have had to go elsewhere with Rescue Rabbits. I've been told fluids are optional during *some* surgery and cost extra.
 
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