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Bonding Nine - now a Quintet and maybe a Quad?

Omi said:
I'm sorry to read this :( I hope that the wounds soon clear up and that Persephone and Morpheus are happier out of the group. It was a lot to expect that nine rabbits, all with different personalities, would live together amicably and I really don't think anyone could have achieved a better outcome. You know your rabbits and will have realised what the situation was.

I'm a firm believer that rabbits cannot be made to bond, even by an expert, highly experienced bonder (which of course you are :)), if they do not really feel comfortable in doing so. And of course, to force the issue could mean nasty wounds and the worry for you that they could not be left alone.

Sending lots of hugs. You've put a lot of time and energy into this and must be exhausted, as well as a bit disappointed.
Click to expand...

Thank you. I've said all along with bonding, the rabbits do the hard work. It's been made clear that those 2 didn't want to integrate, so I'm glad I made the decision. Morpheus is a lot more relaxed in his new (to him) set-up. They are in the back set up, previously Helios and Selene's. A 6x2ft double hutch, 6x8ft run, and a 3ftx6ft extended run in front of the hutch. Persephone has an affront to life at all times, but deep down is ok. She'll have an impressive scar on her ear though, but it is remarkably clean. Their relationship is fine, but they've always lived "alone, together". I don't think either would object to being single rabbits really, but they rub along well enough.

The 7 are seeming much more relaxed too. :) Athena likes everyone, but isn't afraid to put anyone in place. Provided we have a quiet weekend, I'm going to make plans for clearing the next big run (4ftx12ft, Persephone and Morph's run previously.) and connecting the pipe.
 
Sorry it didn't work out with all 9. Bonding 7 is still an amazing achievement! Well done and hopefully everything can calm down a bit now :)
 
Sorry it didn’t work out how you’d planned, but it sounds like you’ve made the best decision:thumb:
 
tlcwrites said:
Day Sixteen - 8.45am

I awoke to a nasty cut on Persephone's ear. :cry: For her and Morpheus, this group is too much. It's ended my plans of having 9, for now. It's not fair on them. Neither settled particularly well in the group; Meadow had taken to chasing Persephone, and Morpheus was avoiding everyone. I'm tending to their wounds and hoping they'll settle back down together.

I'm hoping this will mean the remaining 7 will settle down nicely now.
Click to expand...


Ouch, so sorry to hear this :(

However, a group of seven is a mammoth achievement.
I hope that lot settle down together once Persephone and Morpheus are out of the group.
 
Day Sixteen: 6pm

When I went to feed the outdoor rabbits, I caught a sneak peek of Morpheus giving Persephone's ear wound a VERY thorough clean. I think they are both much happier with the new arrangement.

There was a bit of a scuffle at dinnertime, but I think Athena might have been a bit food possessive? Selene has a little wound on one side from it. However, I will try and feed in both runs to see if that helps. I think it will, but I'm really annoyed with myself for all these injuries. I know I can argue "best interests at heart" but still, I'm the one who chose to run the risk. I'll be giving them all a good check over in the morning, especially the ones who have got hurt.

I just hope the scuffle was a blip, the change in feeding plans helps, and they settle now.
 
Day Seventeen: 2pm

Meadow is getting a bit feisty now, except with people. She's an absolute sweetheart with me, continually asking from headrubs. Athena also kept nipping at my rear when I was taking photos and filming, and doing it to other buns in order to get them to budge. :roll: Rabbits. Meadow mostly chases Selene. The main trigger seems to be outside stressors, which I obviously can't control. We had a bit of a chase fest when the neighbour was roaring the engine of his bike :(. However, for the most part, everyone's rubbing along together fairly nicely.

I've also taken some pictures and videos of Persephone (especially) and Morph (who didn't want to play ball.) Persephone's ear looks awful. :cry: But it's a part of honesty, and a demonstration of what can happen when bonding goes wrong.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hgkGY7QDhAo&t=0s&index=18&list=PLcWqTm-jdUGDhiYku-ASKa6GPxKVwi7VA video 1

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hd7RteztTsE&index=18&list=PLcWqTm-jdUGDhiYku-ASKa6GPxKVwi7VA video 2

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=svN7hO95_uE&index=19&list=PLcWqTm-jdUGDhiYku-ASKa6GPxKVwi7VA video 3

plus Persephone:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZNuRWhKnrH4&index=20&list=PLcWqTm-jdUGDhiYku-ASKa6GPxKVwi7VA

pictures:

LIZlTK6.jpg


5sF1AyW.jpg


AmF78iC.jpg


Z6w21aq.jpg


beYNTRI.jpg


Persephone (and Morph)

TRqFqyL.jpg


hUX0Bpd.jpg


rAOm5Az.jpg
 
Day 20 - 3pm

I am feeling like a terrible, terrible owner. :cry:

My darling Rexy girl Selene has been completely beat up on. I noticed a huge blister on her shoulder and booked her in with our newest vet. He's not exotics qualified YET but has a massive interest in them. Anyhow, I went to load the 7 in a crate, and Meadow just set herself on poor Selene who was screaming and screaming. :cry: So I took just Helios and Selene, knowing full well they will NOT be returning to the dutches/River/Mus/Athena. The fight between Meadow and Selene ended with the blister actually bursting and a huge flap of dead skin/fur hanging off. It's awful.

Anyhow D examined Selene thoroughly, then Helios and clipped Helios's nails for me(!) Helios hasn't any wounds at all; he's in fine fettle, just fat. He then said he would clean up the wounds then try and staple/sew them closed again. First he tried with just a local, but Sea wasn't having any of it. He came through to ask for permission to sedate her, which of course I gave. OH, Helios, and I, meanwhile, were waiting in the consult room. H was sticking to me like glue! They were gone for the longest time. We overheard that Z (an exotics vet) AND D were working on 'an emergency' and knew it was her. :cry: Eventually he brought Sea back, and one of her sides has pretty much been completely shaven. A nightmare for D because she is a rabbit, but also a REX rabbit (apparently, a dog would have taken a quarter of the time!) He indicated where the worst wounds are, what has been done, and how there's more minor scabs elsewhere. She's on metacam and baytril. She has a check-up in a week and has to be kept indoors.

H was the sweetest when she returned. He immediately set to grooming her, and nuzzling her. He's such a good, concerned husbun.

So my plans after Sea's recovered?

Right now, I'm hoping the Outdoor 5 will be fine now. Of course I'm gonna keep an eye on this but I really hope that's the end of all rejections.

After that, I'm going to try H and Sea with Persephone and Morpheus. There never appeared to be any aggression between them, and hopefully that'll work. We'll then look at building them a new run, and new shelter of some description. That's in addition to what Persephone and Morpheus are in now.

Right now though, I'm feeling hugely guilty. And beating myself up about it. This only happened because I had all these lofty ideas. But, it also proves the importance of ALWAYS having a back-up plan. I just hope, when the time comes, I'll have a happy 5, and a happy quad.
 
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Aww bless Selene but please don't beat yourself up about it, you tried 9 so they could all be together and get on you never did it with the intention of putting any in harms way. You noticed Persephone and Morpheus wer'nt clicking with the group and resolved that issue and now you have noticed Meadow and Selene etc. To me you have always had the buns at the forefront. So what if the initial idea is out the window and may have been changed to two groups. Yes there have been a couple of injuries/ scuffles but I think anyone would have been shocked if they went together with no problems and life went on. Go get a cuppa, sounds like you need one!
 
:( Nobody can tell which way it'll go with bunny bonding so nobun's to blame - please go easy on yourself. Healing vibes for you & selene
 
Oh gosh, poor Selene :( I'm so very sorry this has happened. I certainly wouldn't beat yourself up about it, although I know exactly how you feel having experienced it very recently with my failed quintet bond with Tethra, which I called a halt to after he was injured. I hope that she heals well.

Bonding for me appears NEVER to be an exact science. In my view it is mostly about the rabbits' personalities and very little to do with the skill of the bonder. Yes, of course there are sensible guidelines to be followed when bonding, but sometimes rabbits just do not want to live together and your track record proves that you are an experienced bonder with loads of successful bonds behind you.

I hope that the revised groups work out.
 
tlcwrites said:
Day 20 - 3pm

I am feeling like a terrible, terrible owner. :cry:

My darling Rexy girl Selene has been completely beat up on. I noticed a huge blister on her shoulder and booked her in with our newest vet. He's not exotics qualified YET but has a massive interest in them. Anyhow, I went to load the 7 in a crate, and Meadow just set herself on poor Selene who was screaming and screaming. :cry: So I took just Helios and Selene, knowing full well they will NOT be returning to the dutches/River/Mus/Athena. The fight between Meadow and Selene ended with the blister actually bursting and a huge flap of dead skin/fur hanging off. It's awful.

Anyhow D examined Selene thoroughly, then Helios and clipped Helios's nails for me(!) Helios hasn't any wounds at all; he's in fine fettle, just fat. He then said he would clean up the wounds then try and staple/sew them closed again. First he tried with just a local, but Sea wasn't having any of it. He came through to ask for permission to sedate her, which of course I gave. OH, Helios, and I, meanwhile, were waiting in the consult room. H was sticking to me like glue! They were gone for the longest time. We overheard that Z (an exotics vet) AND D were working on 'an emergency' and knew it was her. :cry: Eventually he brought Sea back, and one of her sides has pretty much been completely shaven. A nightmare for D because she is a rabbit, but also a REX rabbit (apparently, a dog would have taken a quarter of the time!) He indicated where the worst wounds are, what has been done, and how there's more minor scabs elsewhere. She's on metacam and baytril. She has a check-up in a week and has to be kept indoors.

H was the sweetest when she returned. He immediately set to grooming her, and nuzzling her. He's such a good, concerned husbun.

So my plans after Sea's recovered?

Right now, I'm hoping the Outdoor 5 will be fine now. Of course I'm gonna keep an eye on this but I really hope that's the end of all rejections.

After that, I'm going to try H and Sea with Persephone and Morpheus. There never appeared to be any aggression between them, and hopefully that'll work. We'll then look at building them a new run, and new shelter of some description. That's in addition to what Persephone and Morpheus are in now.

Right now though, I'm feeling hugely guilty. And beating myself up about it. This only happened because I had all these lofty ideas. But, it also proves the importance of ALWAYS having a back-up plan. I just hope, when the time comes, I'll have a happy 5, and a happy quad.
Click to expand...


So sorry to hear about Selene :( I hope she recovers OK.

You must not beat yourself up about this. It's good to have ideas and plans that would make yours and their lives enriched and easier. If you didn't try you'd have never known. These things happen and it wasn't meant to be. But you tried and you'd always wonder if you hadn't, whether it would've been possible.

So moving on, vibes for the separate groups and a few extra for Selene.

PS you are a wonderful person and I value your support more than you will know. Thank you for your PM and I can't tell you how much your bravery and honesty mean to me. Many hugs for you this evening ... xx
 
Hi, I hope Selene is feeling better today. What you were attempting was purely for the buns sake and there’s no blame to be dolled out. No one can know how the rabbits will get on until you try. We’ve all been here, trying to make a big happy group or even a pair in order to provide company and bunny love for our rabbits. I hope you’re feeling better today too and keep posting as I’ve been following your thread with much interest. Sending vibes to you and all your buns xx
 
Just catching up: best wishes for Selene, and to you too, of course you'll feel guilty but it's not your fault :) Good luck with the next steps :)
 
Thank you everyone.

Today was the day for Selene's check-up with her vet. He is very very pleased with her progress. No wounds showing inflammation, and she was good as gold taking her Baytril (and Metacam) all week. (I mean amazing; she took it without too many arguments at all. Never thought I'd see a rabbit tolerate that dreaded antibiotic!)

D doesn't want her to be back into bonding just yet. A few more days to heal, then we'll be ok. He did make sure it wasn't with the rabbit that hurt her though! D doesn't have the official training yet, but definitely has all the makings of an excellent rabbit vet. So at my one surgery, that's 3 different options for vets for my rabbits/tort/small pets, then another who is a cat specialist. :D

We'll start again Monday. Meanwhile, they are back outside, albeit only in Persephone and Morpheus's 'original' hutch. (It's over 30sqft) Which is better than being cooped up inside, with only runaround breaks here and there. Will continue updating here once Bonding 2.0 starts.
 
So glad that Selene is on the mend. Look forward to the next round of bonding when the time is right.
 
Day 28 - Quintet

Over the past couple of days, OH and I have been working on using our pipe to connect the quintet's 2 48sqft runs. We got it finished this morning, once we finally got the bolts and nuts to bite. :roll:

Athena was first through, claiming everything. Followed by Erasmus, and Neonara shortly after. Meadow also had an investigate, but only after OH had moved her from the small run, to their 6x8ft run, near the pipe. It was hot this morning and the rabbits were feeling lazy, so I left them mostly to it until teatime. By then, they had all managed to navigate the new pipe (OH was convinced it wasn't big enough, but I knew they'd all fit through!) and had an investigate. It was raining during their tea, but I still got a few photos.

Meadow and Neo are both a bit cautious around the others, especially Erasmus. However, they'll also happily flop together, so I am fairly comfortable that, after 4 weeks, these guys will be safe to stay together for good. :) Eventually, they'll get the 30sqft hutch/tower which Helios and Selene are currently in, but only after I've started bonding Helios, Selene, Persephone, and Morpheus again, and am comfortable that it's going in the right direction. Once they get that, they'll have their full space until we remake the long run which they got today - it'll be going from a 4x12ft to a 5x12ft.

Anyhow, pictures/videos:

https://youtu.be/HvE3rsBxtHg

https://youtu.be/LgP1SxBbQjk

https://youtu.be/slA_E-MqAzE

Tv3KMgm.jpg


Rx7HshC.jpg


qvWb0hB.jpg


PngRvWd.jpg


TZx9PB0.jpg


WARNING: THESE LAST 2 PICTURES ARE GRAPHIC.
Hence, clickable links instead.

These were taken a week ago, yesterday, after Selene's vet visit. I want to demonstrate just how badly things can go when bonding goes wrong. When I start bonding her with Persephone/Morpheus, I'll take an updated photo of her sides. Her fur is already growing back very nicely now! :)

https://i.imgur.com/yXNXiK6.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/k91Lom0.jpg
 
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