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Soft Tissue Stage 2 Sarcoma :-(

C

chelle

Warren Veteran
Hi everyone

I wanted to ask advice, our little boy Archie is 8 years old now. he has been with us for 5 years and is loved very much by his two wifeybuns. Unfortunately they each spend half a day each with him as they fight - long story but basically he is very important in their lives.

So we went on holiday in January for 3 weeks and came back to Archie (buck) having a huge growth on his left shoulder. We were horrified, no one saw it:-( they didnt handle them much - we noticed it straight away and he went in for surgery - recovered well over a few weeks and we were so relieved....until it started to grow back in the exact same spot. We urgently sent off the first growth for analysis and its come back as a soft tissue grade 2 sarcoma. We are heartbroken.

Tomorrow we will be going to the vets to have a physical examination - we think it has grown across his little chest and its hurting him if touched or moved otherwise he is running about the garden and being his usual beggar bunny whenever I am at the fridge.

So - after the physical that might be the decision made - its no point in operating as its woven into his shoulder joint, across his chest and who knows where else around his chest.

Or we might get advised that its possible to operate and lets do a radiograph - take a lateral & DD view and check if its entered into the bone. If it has - then no operation will take place. If it hasn't we have to decide right then to go ahead or not as he will be under GA for the radiograph and the op if it goes ahead.

So our worry is this, if we decide to operate if its not in the bone - and if we couldn't get it all last time and now its spread across his chest - really what are the realistic chances of getting it all out this time?
Also last time his muscle had to be shaved so already its thinner, how much muscle can we take out without really impacting his quality of life? and across his chest?

Also if it came back so soon after the first surgery - the chances of it coming back again seem high to us, so do I want to prolong his life going through surgery when quite a few weeks of that will be recovering form surgery and not so great for him?

Do I put him under GA for a radiograph, spend a lot of money knowing that I dont want to operate anyway because I think we might not be able to get it all out anyway if its all grown into his shoulder joint?

I am devastated, the bunny girls will be devastated, he is such a sweet bunny, who has shown his appreciation at being welcomed int our family, being given bunny friends after never having any and we love him so very much BUT he is living in the moment right now, he is happy, eating, running about the garden and enjoys a fuss. i dont want to put him through surgery to achieve nothing...again.

If I knew we could get it all out for sure, that it wouldn't come back, I would do it. But he just had surgery and cage rest etc and its back again and grown loads in two weeks whilst we waited for the removed growth to be analysed. :-(

I have also gone down the homeopathic med route and will possibly give that if we cant/decide not to operate...so its something at least.

Anyone who has had experience of these horrible sarcoma's - i would appreciate hearing your thoughts, anyone who has advice please share.

Feeling heartbroken, i was planning his little 9th birthday in June :-(
 
chelle said:
Hi everyone

I wanted to ask advice, our little boy Archie is 8 years old now. he has been with us for 5 years and is loved very much by his two wifeybuns. Unfortunately they each spend half a day each with him as they fight - long story but basically he is very important in their lives.

So we went on holiday in January for 3 weeks and came back to Archie (buck) having a huge growth on his left shoulder. We were horrified, no one saw it:-( they didnt handle them much - we noticed it straight away and he went in for surgery - recovered well over a few weeks and we were so relieved....until it started to grow back in the exact same spot. We urgently sent off the first growth for analysis and its come back as a soft tissue grade 2 sarcoma. We are heartbroken.

Tomorrow we will be going to the vets to have a physical examination - we think it has grown across his little chest and its hurting him if touched or moved otherwise he is running about the garden and being his usual beggar bunny whenever I am at the fridge.

So - after the physical that might be the decision made - its no point in operating as its woven into his shoulder joint, across his chest and who knows where else around his chest.

Or we might get advised that its possible to operate and lets do a radiograph - take a lateral & DD view and check if its entered into the bone. If it has - then no operation will take place. If it hasn't we have to decide right then to go ahead or not as he will be under GA for the radiograph and the op if it goes ahead.

So our worry is this, if we decide to operate if its not in the bone - and if we couldn't get it all last time and now its spread across his chest - really what are the realistic chances of getting it all out this time?
Also last time his muscle had to be shaved so already its thinner, how much muscle can we take out without really impacting his quality of life? and across his chest?

Also if it came back so soon after the first surgery - the chances of it coming back again seem high to us, so do I want to prolong his life going through surgery when quite a few weeks of that will be recovering form surgery and not so great for him?

Do I put him under GA for a radiograph, spend a lot of money knowing that I dont want to operate anyway because I think we might not be able to get it all out anyway if its all grown into his shoulder joint?

I am devastated, the bunny girls will be devastated, he is such a sweet bunny, who has shown his appreciation at being welcomed int our family, being given bunny friends after never having any and we love him so very much BUT he is living in the moment right now, he is happy, eating, running about the garden and enjoys a fuss. i dont want to put him through surgery to achieve nothing...again.

If I knew we could get it all out for sure, that it wouldn't come back, I would do it. But he just had surgery and cage rest etc and its back again and grown loads in two weeks whilst we waited for the removed growth to be analysed. :-(

I have also gone down the homeopathic med route and will possibly give that if we cant/decide not to operate...so its something at least.

Anyone who has had experience of these horrible sarcoma's - i would appreciate hearing your thoughts, anyone who has advice please share.

Feeling heartbroken, i was planning his little 9th birthday in June :-(
Click to expand...


Hi Chelle

I am sorry to hear about Archie :(

Yes it's devastating, as one of my bunnies had this too. The growths can appear and get bigger quite quickly.

In the case of my rabbit, an operation wasn't possible due to where it was sited. Also, radiotherapy was contraindicated too.


I think everyone has to decide what they wish to do in these circumstances. I took advice from three different specialists in the end, and with their advice, we went down the road of alternatives. This gave him many more months of quality life than he would have otherwise have had and for that I will always be grateful.

Lots of hugs for you and Archie xx
 
Thank you Jack's Jane, I've read one of the articles and just read the other. Thank you.
Thanks Mighty max, it's aweful isn't it. I have a brilliant extoics vet Ian Cope in Cambridge. He didn't think chemo was good for this type of cancer. He is looking into it more but we don't really want to go that route. Not nice for them.
Could I ask what alternative route you took in terms of treatment? I'm probably going to go that route. I'll see what Ian says tomorrow. I've had a wonderful lady who does healing doing some treatment today for him. Thanks for the hugs, gratefully received. XX 😓
 
chelle said:
Thank you Jack's Jane, I've read one of the articles and just read the other. Thank you.
Thanks Mighty max, it's aweful isn't it. I have a brilliant extoics vet Ian Cope in Cambridge. He didn't think chemo was good for this type of cancer. He is looking into it more but we don't really want to go that route. Not nice for them.
Could I ask what alternative route you took in terms of treatment? I'm probably going to go that route. I'll see what Ian says tomorrow. I've had a wonderful lady who does healing doing some treatment today for him. Thanks for the hugs, gratefully received. XX 😓
Click to expand...


You're very welcome and yes it's sad and I feel for you x

I can't now post publicly about the treatments we used as I've been bullied for it, even though everything has always been administered by a fully qualified vet of course. But I am sure that Ian Cope will help with whatever he can do, as he's indeed a brilliant vet :)
 
I understand mightymax. I've spoken with a vet who has now become only a homepathic vet. It's very expensive unfortunately but if you wouldn't mind messaging me privately I'd appreciate any advice I could look into. If you don't want to that's ok. I can't believe you've been bullied for it before. Really sad as so many of our medicines come from plants. I've also had past experience where my parakeet lived another two years on homepathic medicine. My mum nursed her as I was abroad. And yes Ian is amazing isn't he.
 
chelle said:
I understand mightymax. I've spoken with a vet who has now become only a homepathic vet. It's very expensive unfortunately but if you wouldn't mind messaging me privately I'd appreciate any advice I could look into. If you don't want to that's ok. I can't believe you've been bullied for it before. Really sad as so many of our medicines come from plants. I've also had past experience where my parakeet lived another two years on homepathic medicine. My mum nursed her as I was abroad. And yes Ian is amazing isn't he.
Click to expand...


Yes he certainly is :)

The treatment we used wasn't expensive, so I would be glad to hear of your experiences ... Can you drop me a PM and let me know what you've tried already? I will gladly reply :)

Yes, many medicines come from plants, but there are those who insist on saying "Just because it's natural, doesn't make it safe" - without understanding the underlying principles of alternative/complementary medicine. However, each to his own, and I keep quiet nowadays to keep the peace :)
 
Hi MightMax

I will PM you thankyou. We visited Ian and we can do surgery to remove the chest muscle/part of (?) and his leg including shoulder. This could give him more time, but of course it could have gone into his blood stream and also the radio-graph will show if its worth continuing with the operation anyway. Feeling confused.
 
chelle said:
Hi MightMax

I will PM you thankyou. We visited Ian and we can do surgery to remove the chest muscle/part of (?) and his leg including shoulder. This could give him more time, but of course it could have gone into his blood stream and also the radio-graph will show if its worth continuing with the operation anyway. Feeling confused.
Click to expand...


Thanks so much for your PM - I shall reply to you very shortly.

In the meantime, lots of hugs xx
 
P.S.

I am happy to read that Ian is open to using alternative medications - that's a wonderful open-minded attitude :D

I wish more people were like him ...
 
MightyMax said:
Yes, many medicines come from plants, but there are those who insist on saying "Just because it's natural, doesn't make it safe" - without understanding the underlying principles of alternative/complementary medicine. However, each to his own, and I keep quiet nowadays to keep the peace :)
Click to expand...

Just for the sake of clarity, and because I know this is widely misunderstood - there is a whooooole world of difference between plant-based medicines and homeopathy. Herbal medicine and homeopathic medicine are NOT the same thing and it's really important that this is understood, I've even seen a vet website talk about homeopathy in a way that makes it sound the same as herbal use of arnica, which it totally 100% is not. Similarly, complementary and alternative medicines are not the same, and some complementary/alternative therapies have an evidence base for their efficacy, and others haven't. Terminology is so vital in this area otherwise there is massive scope for confusion, misunderstanding and a whole lot of knickers in a twist :)

I do know of someone who sent a bunny up to Royal **** vet school in Edinburgh for radiotherapy for a sarcoma; it was so big and diffuse that it didn't help, sadly. Iain has a very good reputation and is well connected with other specialists so I'm sure he will advise you well. All the very best xx
 
Santa said:
Just for the sake of clarity, and because I know this is widely misunderstood - there is a whooooole world of difference between plant-based medicines and homeopathy. Herbal medicine and homeopathic medicine are NOT the same thing and it's really important that this is understood, I've even seen a vet website talk about homeopathy in a way that makes it sound the same as herbal use of arnica, which it totally 100% is not. Similarly, complementary and alternative medicines are not the same, and some complementary/alternative therapies have an evidence base for their efficacy, and others haven't. Terminology is so vital in this area otherwise there is massive scope for confusion, misunderstanding and a whole lot of knickers in a twist :)
Click to expand...

Very well explained Santa , I completely agree xx
 
Santa said:
Just for the sake of clarity, and because I know this is widely misunderstood - there is a whooooole world of difference between plant-based medicines and homeopathy. Herbal medicine and homeopathic medicine are NOT the same thing and it's really important that this is understood, I've even seen a vet website talk about homeopathy in a way that makes it sound the same as herbal use of arnica, which it totally 100% is not. Similarly, complementary and alternative medicines are not the same, and some complementary/alternative therapies have an evidence base for their efficacy, and others haven't. Terminology is so vital in this area otherwise there is massive scope for confusion, misunderstanding and a whole lot of knickers in a twist :)

I do know of someone who sent a bunny up to Royal **** vet school in Edinburgh for radiotherapy for a sarcoma; it was so big and diffuse that it didn't help, sadly. Iain has a very good reputation and is well connected with other specialists so I'm sure he will advise you well. All the very best xx
Click to expand...


My original post you quoted pointed out that 'many medicines are made from plants'. This is quite correct :)
I did not infer that homeopathy and herbal medicine were in any way the same thing.

I also know that complementary and alternative medicine are not the same, but they can be used interchangeably in certain circumstances, so terminology is not always helpful here:

https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/complementary-and-alternative-medicine/

Your post may be clarifying for a wider audience, but I wanted to make clear that as you quoted me, I am already aware of these facts and will be helping OP privately for the reasons already stated :)
 
Santa said:
Just for the sake of clarity, and because I know this is widely misunderstood - there is a whooooole world of difference between plant-based medicines and homeopathy. Herbal medicine and homeopathic medicine are NOT the same thing and it's really important that this is understood, I've even seen a vet website talk about homeopathy in a way that makes it sound the same as herbal use of arnica, which it totally 100% is not. Similarly, complementary and alternative medicines are not the same, and some complementary/alternative therapies have an evidence base for their efficacy, and others haven't. Terminology is so vital in this area otherwise there is massive scope for confusion, misunderstanding and a whole lot of knickers in a twist :)

I do know of someone who sent a bunny up to Royal **** vet school in Edinburgh for radiotherapy for a sarcoma; it was so big and diffuse that it didn't help, sadly. Iain has a very good reputation and is well connected with other specialists so I'm sure he will advise you well. All the very best xx
Click to expand...

Thanks for explaining abit more about that. I dont know the difference between them all to be honest but a, happy to try them if no harm is caused and of course some work wonders and others done and some work on some whilst do nothing for others so we will see.
Thanks - yes Ian is amazing and will help us for sure. I dont want to do chemo - I have been told that if we amputate that without chemo is wont go away - i dont think this is true but will ask Ian.
 
Hi everyone

after much consideration and tears after deciding palliative care we have decided to try for surgery. Archie is 8 - but well he might have just turned 9. He is booked in thursdy and will have his leg, including scapula and part of whole of the side of his chest muscle removed. Its upsetting and intense and we would love to hear of anyones bunny having similar surgery - might start a tripod post perhaps.

If the radiograph shows too much density then surgery will not go ahead. feeling anxious, it is a lot of money and this growth might come back but we are hopeful. xx
 
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