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Dental

glitterdust

Warren Scout
Jimmy is doing the tooth thing again, it has been 3 weeks since his last dental so now I know it definitely isn't because he doesn't eat enough hay. I am really at a loose end about it and it depresses me because for 2 weeks I have a normal happy rabbit and then he starts to change. I really don't want to go through this every 2/3 weeks as I don't like the stress it puts on him, his little wife and me. I could handle every 6 to 8 weeks like most people do. Can the vets not file it right down so it lasts longer. Has anyone been in this situation and how can I make the time in between last longer. Pet plan payed for his last 2 dentals so I am fortunate in that respect but 2/3 weeks......really. help.....

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I'm sorry that Jimmy is showing signs of needing a dental again. I would agree with you that 2/3 weeks is just so stressful for everyone. Has Jimmy had xrays done? What has the vet suggested?
 
I'm sorry that Jimmy is showing signs of needing a dental again. I would agree with you that 2/3 weeks is just so stressful for everyone. Has Jimmy had xrays done? What has the vet suggested?
He had X-ray's last time but they couldn't see anything untoward, the vet put it down to a face injury Jimmy had before i rescued him.i was grasping at straws hoping the hay would help him [emoji853] he has an appt again on Monday and I have metacam for him till then which I have to say is a godsend because 20 mins after taking it he has eaten a bowl full of herbs. If I could give him metacam every day for a couple of weeks just to make the time inbetween last longer then that would be ideal but I am not sure if this is safe or not. As it stands I think anything that helps is a bonus because we can't go on like this. Can they burr them right down. They said they did this last time but it has made no difference

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Yes they can be burred right down, but if the vet says he did that last time, then I can't see that would make much difference. What was the extent of the facial injury?

I think you will need to discuss what to do long term when you see the vet on Monday. Sending him lots of vibes. I'm glad he's eating after having the Metacam.
 
Yes they can be burred right down, but if the vet says he did that last time, then I can't see that would make much difference. What was the extent of the facial injury?

I think you will need to discuss what to do long term when you see the vet on Monday. Sending him lots of vibes. I'm glad he's eating after having the Metacam.
His face got mauled off another rabbit when he was a baby that's how he ended up in the rescue, and his mouth nose and ear on one side are all scarred and his nose and mouth area are misshapen, he gets mucus in the misshapen nostril all the time but I knew this before I rescued him, they didn't mention the teeth situation though, it would of made no difference to me anyway , I always go for animals that are special.i have to keep checking his little nose to make sure there is no changes. I will tell the vet on Monday we need some kind of plan so it is every 6 weeks at the least.

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Jimmy is doing the tooth thing again, it has been 3 weeks since his last dental so now I know it definitely isn't because he doesn't eat enough hay. I am really at a loose end about it and it depresses me because for 2 weeks I have a normal happy rabbit and then he starts to change. I really don't want to go through this every 2/3 weeks as I don't like the stress it puts on him, his little wife and me. I could handle every 6 to 8 weeks like most people do. Can the vets not file it right down so it lasts longer. Has anyone been in this situation and how can I make the time in between last longer. Pet plan payed for his last 2 dentals so I am fortunate in that respect but 2/3 weeks......really. help.....

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Hi there and sorry to hear about Jimmy.

Having had a lot of experience with dental rabbits I am not one of those in favour of filing the crowns right down I'm afraid. I have seen evidence of this causing injury and so I couldn't recommend it.

Frances Harcourt Brown has a lot to say here and this has all certainly been my experience of dental work on rabbits:



Some authors even recommend burring all the crowns off all the cheek teeth down to gum level and leaving the rabbit with no functional cheek teeth until they regrow. It has been proposed that this procedure should be conducted electively every 4-8 weeks.

This author is totally opposed to generalised coronal reduction. This opinion is the result of working as a specialist seeing many rabbits as second opinions that have undergone generalised coronal reduction with painful and life threatening consequences. There is no evidence of success and the procedure carries a risk of exposing innervated dentine and unnecessary pain and iatrogenic injury. It is often several days before the rabbit can eat again and nutritional support and pain management is required during this period. Ironically, the post-operative advice to the owner is to make sure the rabbit eats plenty of hay. Some vets even suggest removing all other sources of food with the idea that the rabbit can be forced into eating hay, even though there are no crowns on the cheek teeth.

Recommended approach.
Rather than elective corrective dentistry every few weeks, cheek tooth malocclusion can be treated in a less invasive manner. Dental intervention only takes place when (i) the owner believes there is a problem or (ii) when the clinical signs suggest there is a dental problem or (iii) a sharp spur is detected during conscious oral examination. Under anaesthesia, with the rabbit intubated, the mouth is held open with a gag and cheek dilators and each tooth is carefully examined making sure that both the lingual and buccal aspects of each tooth are looked at. Any loose crowns are pulled off and any sharp spurs are removed, either with molar cutters or with burrs.
If molar cutters are used, the edges of the teeth are rasped with a diamond rasp after the procedure to make sure they are smooth. Long crowns are left alone unless they are causing soft tissue damage. These are usually wearing against opposing short crowns. With this minimalistic approach, unless there is pre-existing gut stasis or extensive soft tissue damage, most rabbits eat as soon as they recover from the anaesthetic.
 
Hi there and sorry to hear about Jimmy.

Having had a lot of experience with dental rabbits I am not one of those in favour of filing the crowns right down I'm afraid. I have seen evidence of this causing injury and so I couldn't recommend it.

Frances Harcourt Brown has a lot to say here and this has all certainly been my experience of dental work on rabbits:



Some authors even recommend burring all the crowns off all the cheek teeth down to gum level and leaving the rabbit with no functional cheek teeth until they regrow. It has been proposed that this procedure should be conducted electively every 4-8 weeks.

This author is totally opposed to generalised coronal reduction. This opinion is the result of working as a specialist seeing many rabbits as second opinions that have undergone generalised coronal reduction with painful and life threatening consequences. There is no evidence of success and the procedure carries a risk of exposing innervated dentine and unnecessary pain and iatrogenic injury. It is often several days before the rabbit can eat again and nutritional support and pain management is required during this period. Ironically, the post-operative advice to the owner is to make sure the rabbit eats plenty of hay. Some vets even suggest removing all other sources of food with the idea that the rabbit can be forced into eating hay, even though there are no crowns on the cheek teeth.

Recommended approach.
Rather than elective corrective dentistry every few weeks, cheek tooth malocclusion can be treated in a less invasive manner. Dental intervention only takes place when (i) the owner believes there is a problem or (ii) when the clinical signs suggest there is a dental problem or (iii) a sharp spur is detected during conscious oral examination. Under anaesthesia, with the rabbit intubated, the mouth is held open with a gag and cheek dilators and each tooth is carefully examined making sure that both the lingual and buccal aspects of each tooth are looked at. Any loose crowns are pulled off and any sharp spurs are removed, either with molar cutters or with burrs.
If molar cutters are used, the edges of the teeth are rasped with a diamond rasp after the procedure to make sure they are smooth. Long crowns are left alone unless they are causing soft tissue damage. These are usually wearing against opposing short crowns. With this minimalistic approach, unless there is pre-existing gut stasis or extensive soft tissue damage, most rabbits eat as soon as they recover from the anaesthetic.
Oh I am not having that.that sounds terrible, poor bunny's, In your experience if metacam helps prolong the stages in between would you use it. I find it very strange how I rescued Jimmy 1st of July, he had eating issues but I thought it was stress related as after a few days he bounced back, this was lack of experience on my behalf but he never really got worse just the episodes as I called them became more frequent,however he didn't have his first dental till January 10th. He managed for 6 months on and off before he needed them burred. After that it has been 7 weeks and now we are at 3 weeks. Am I being too hasty because I now know what is wrong.

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Oh I am not having that.that sounds terrible, poor bunny's, In your experience if metacam helps prolong the stages in between would you use it. I find it very strange how I rescued Jimmy 1st of July, he had eating issues but I thought it was stress related as after a few days he bounced back, this was lack of experience on my behalf but he never really got worse just the episodes as I called them became more frequent,however he didn't have his first dental till January 10th. He managed for 6 months on and off before he needed them burred. After that it has been 7 weeks and now we are at 3 weeks. Am I being too hasty because I now know what is wrong.

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Metacam doesn't help with teeth, it just takes away pain. If the teeth need attention then that will have to be done anyway.

But ... would you consider a second opinion on his teeth? My vet always shows me every time exactly what's going on in my rabbit's mouth and exactly what's going to happen in the dental. Then I understand the logic behind what they do :)
 
Poor boy & poor you.

Wonderful information MM has provided you with.

I know you trust your vet, and value their opinion but I wonder if getting a second opinion by another experience vet who maybe specialises in dentistry or orthopaedics may be worth while for Jimmy. They may have other options available to him.

Long term metacam isn't ideal due to its effects on the kidneys so I'd try to avoid having him on it long term unless he has bloods to check his vital organs.
The other downside would be that the pain would have to become so sever that metacam wouldn't hide the symptoms of the dental pain any more, it could result in bad ulcers etc.

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Poor boy & poor you.

Wonderful information MM has provided you with.

I know you trust your vet, and value their opinion but I wonder if getting a second opinion by another experience vet who maybe specialises in dentistry or orthopaedics may be worth while for Jimmy. They may have other options available to him.

Long term metacam isn't ideal due to its effects on the kidneys so I'd try to avoid having him on it long term unless he has bloods to check his vital organs.
The other downside would be that the pain would have to become so sever that metacam wouldn't hide the symptoms of the dental pain any more, it could result in bad ulcers etc.

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If I knew where to go I would definitely be up for a second opinion. I am fully aware he will need ongoing dentals but I think 3 weeks apart Is going to take its toll on me ,little Jimmy and his wife bun. Petplan pay up but at this rate for how long I don't know , then I financially could not afford 3 week dentals , I could afford them at 6 weeks if I go without things. I have a disabled dog who takes up most of my money in her meds and my hours have just been cut at work which hasn't helped my situation. I am on my own financially I don't have anyone who can help Me, I live with my mother who has dementia. Oh my life sounds fab doesn't it [emoji23][emoji23].. Hopefully if pet plan have paid for the last 2 it means they will pay for the rest. It's such a worry in so many ways but I will do the best I can do. I love that boy more that anything, he's very special. X

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If I knew where to go I would definitely be up for a second opinion. I am fully aware he will need ongoing dentals but I think 3 weeks apart Is going to take its toll on me ,little Jimmy and his wife bun. Petplan pay up but at this rate for how long I don't know , then I financially could not afford 3 week dentals , I could afford them at 6 weeks if I go without things. I have a disabled dog who takes up most of my money in her meds and my hours have just been cut at work which hasn't helped my situation. I am on my own financially I don't have anyone who can help Me, I live with my mother who has dementia. Oh my life sounds fab doesn't it [emoji23][emoji23].. Hopefully if pet plan have paid for the last 2 it means they will pay for the rest. It's such a worry in so many ways but I will do the best I can do. I love that boy more that anything, he's very special. X

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Oh he is so lucky to have you xx
You sound like a wonderfully caring person to me and I'm sorry to hear about the hours at work being cut.

If you're happy to share your location, other members may be able to recommend a specialist in your area.

If you'd feel comfortable doing so. You can also ask your vet to discuss your case with any specialists they may know. Just explain you have trust in them and their abilities but you want to explore if there are any other options for Jimmy.

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If I knew where to go I would definitely be up for a second opinion. I am fully aware he will need ongoing dentals but I think 3 weeks apart Is going to take its toll on me ,little Jimmy and his wife bun. Petplan pay up but at this rate for how long I don't know , then I financially could not afford 3 week dentals , I could afford them at 6 weeks if I go without things. I have a disabled dog who takes up most of my money in her meds and my hours have just been cut at work which hasn't helped my situation. I am on my own financially I don't have anyone who can help Me, I live with my mother who has dementia. Oh my life sounds fab doesn't it [emoji23][emoji23].. Hopefully if pet plan have paid for the last 2 it means they will pay for the rest. It's such a worry in so many ways but I will do the best I can do. I love that boy more that anything, he's very special. X

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This is probably something you don't want to consider, but when things get to the stage that Jimmy is at, so many people have contacted me (privately) concerning conscious dentals. It tends to cause a bit of a hoo-hah on here, so it puts people off posting, sadly :(

I am sure you will hear, or have already heard, all the reasons why certain people think it's a bad idea, and I know that others have been very honest and said that they would rather their rabbit die than have a conscious dental.

However, this is a personal choice, and I for one wouldn't judge whatever you decided. A conscious dental costs no more than a standard consult. There's no recovery time. And yes, despite what info you will see on this Forum, a competent vet can most certainly do a brilliant job of saving those gnashers :D
 
This is probably something you don't want to consider, but when things get to the stage that Jimmy is at, so many people have contacted me (privately) concerning conscious dentals. It tends to cause a bit of a hoo-hah on here, so it puts people off posting, sadly :(

I am sure you will hear, or have already heard, all the reasons why certain people think it's a bad idea, and I know that others have been very honest and said that they would rather their rabbit die than have a conscious dental.

However, this is a personal choice, and I for one wouldn't judge whatever you decided. A conscious dental costs no more than a standard consult. There's no recovery time. And yes, despite what info you will see on this Forum, a competent vet can most certainly do a brilliant job of saving those gnashers :D
Well I wouldn't even have to give that a second thought, I would defo do it. It is finding a vet that would do it that would be my problem. I can imagine it being a two minute job with no repurcutions and the though of constant G.A worry me so much. Where would I find a vet who would do this. I'm from Newcastle upon Tyne x

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Well I wouldn't even have to give that a second thought, I would defo do it. It is finding a vet that would do it that would be my problem. I can imagine it being a two minute job with no repurcutions and the though of constant G.A worry me so much. Where would I find a vet who would do this. I'm from Newcastle upon Tyne x

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Ring around, and make sure you speak with the *vet* and not just receptionist or nurse, as they probably won't know what you're talking about.

Or else come and live near me :D
 
Why does my silly boy keep doing this to me This afternoon he decided he was feeling ok after i mushed pellets up for him and fussed and faffed around him like a servant. He has just eaten 2 apple twigs perfectly normal without flinching while looking me straight in the eye(cheeky sod) . he is now acting back to normal. He does this on and off for weeks at a time. I will still be taking him to vets on Monday regardless of any situation because I need a plan set in place for us, but this frustrates the hell outta me.. It's like a roller coaster. Oh I have realised something else too.
Metacam makes him more sleepy than usual which I don't really think helps things.he might not be in pain but he is still not normal.
Also we have a metal run he bites the bars of the run the whole time because he thinks he can bite his escape.. Could that cause problems? X


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Why does my silly boy keep doing this to me This afternoon he decided he was feeling ok after i mushed pellets up for him and fussed and faffed around him like a servant. He has just eaten 2 apple twigs perfectly normal without flinching while looking me straight in the eye(cheeky sod) . he is now acting back to normal. He does this on and off for weeks at a time. I will still be taking him to vets on Monday regardless of any situation because I need a plan set in place for us, but this frustrates the hell outta me.. It's like a roller coaster. Oh I have realised something else too.
Metacam makes him more sleepy than usual which I don't really think helps things.he might not be in pain but he is still not normal.
Also we have a metal run he bites the bars of the run the whole time because he thinks he can bite his escape.. Could that cause problems? X


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I had a feeling this would happen knowing your Jimmy :lol:

I am surprised Metacam makes him sleepy.

Biting the bars can be a symptom of pain, but also it can distort the teeth through constant biting and pulling on them.

Good luck at the vets. As I say, a vet that can show you the exact state of his teeth - at the very back as well - is a Godsend. Certain folk on here will tell you that such vets don't exist, but I always see *all* my rabbits' teeth so I am afraid it's perfectly possible :)
 
Jimmy is doing the tooth thing again, it has been 3 weeks since his last dental so now I know it definitely isn't because he doesn't eat enough hay. I am really at a loose end about it and it depresses me because for 2 weeks I have a normal happy rabbit and then he starts to change. I really don't want to go through this every 2/3 weeks as I don't like the stress it puts on him, his little wife and me. I could handle every 6 to 8 weeks like most people do. Can the vets not file it right down so it lasts longer. Has anyone been in this situation and how can I make the time in between last longer. Pet plan payed for his last 2 dentals so I am fortunate in that respect but 2/3 weeks......really. help.....

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Some information to assist you to make an informed decision :)

https://rabbitwelfare.co.uk/about-the-rwaf/policy-statements/#conscious

https://www.twickenhamvets.com/rabbit-dental-problems-part-1-malocclusion-cheek-teeth/

https://www.twickenhamvets.com/rabbit-dental-problems-part-2-malocclusion-incisors/

http://www.medirabbit.com/EN/Dental_diseases/Differential/Rabbit_dentistry.pdf

https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/685f/6295965e01a2b2bf90b744f9c068d43bfae8.pdf

https://www.vetstream.com/treat/lapis/freeform/dental-malocclusion-overgrowth

https://www.canonburyvets.com/news/2015/01/05/rabbit-anaesthesia-the-gold-standard

Good luck :)
 
I am really hoping the vets do his teeth tomorrow and they don't make him Wait. Today he is sad. He hasn't eaten any hay and I have had to mash pellets up and give him soft food Just so I know he is eating. I know my Jimmy and that unhappy look crucifys me. Just out of curiosity if he didn't get his teeth done would he die of starvation eventually. It kind of makes it easier to deal with knowing that even if the G.AS have risks, leaving him the way he is could eventually cause his death anyway... Whats £140 to see a happy bunny again even if it is short lived [emoji853]

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I am really hoping the vets do his teeth tomorrow and they don't make him Wait. Today he is sad. He hasn't eaten any hay and I have had to mash pellets up and give him soft food Just so I know he is eating. I know my Jimmy and that unhappy look crucifys me. Just out of curiosity if he didn't get his teeth done would he die of starvation eventually. It kind of makes it easier to deal with knowing that even if the G.AS have risks, leaving him the way he is could eventually cause his death anyway... Whats £140 to see a happy bunny again even if it is short lived [emoji853]

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If he was unable to eat due to teeth problems, he would become anorexic, and go into stasis. This as you know is painful for a rabbit and I know you wouldn't let it get to that stage anyway.

A rabbit having repeated GAs within a short space of time would always be risky, as it would with a human, but so long as you make an informed decision that's all you can do.

Let me know if I can help you any more :wave:

Vibes to you and Jimmy and good luck for tomorrow
 
If he was unable to eat due to teeth problems, he would become anorexic, and go into stasis. This as you know is painful for a rabbit and I know you wouldn't let it get to that stage anyway.

A rabbit having repeated GAs within a short space of time would always be risky, as it would with a human, but so long as you make an informed decision that's all you can do.

Let me know if I can help you any more :wave:

Vibes to you and Jimmy and good luck for tomorrow
I think if I am making his quality of life better, then, if The worst case scenario ever happened at least it was because I was trying to help him. One day I might get a normal animal in my life that doesn't cause me worry and stress. My main problem Is I always think how the animal will be feeling when in reality they don't think like humans ,well I dont think they do but what I do know is, they all deserve a chance x

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