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Thread: Stasis prone bunnies

  1. #71
    Warren Veteran loobers25's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zoe2112 View Post
    Heís doing okay today, he managed to get over it about and hour after the third dose of Infacol, usually he only needs one dose. I think I could even feel an air bubble when I was rubbing his tummy, it felt like his whole stomach did when he was in stasis. I held off taking him as heís doing okay today and binkying about quite happily. Iím starting to think I can see a hint of a head tilt but I donít know if thatís all in my head as I lost my last bunny that way. Iím starting to think Iím going crazy, my husband definitely thinks I am! Iíve attached a photo of his scab behind his head.





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    Phew I'm glad he is doing better today. Does the vets know you use Infacol? I have always wondered what they think about that. What did he have for dinner last night? What's your gut feeling the trigger is? Xx

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  2. #72
    Warren Veteran loobers25's Avatar
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    I would say by the pictures online that looks like a reaction to vaccination. I'm getting mine checked Tuesday though as hers is quite a big lump!

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  3. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by loobers25 View Post
    I would say by the pictures online that looks like a reaction to vaccination. I'm getting mine checked Tuesday though as hers is quite a big lump!

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    Dinner was simply hay of various forms and some romaine once he had gas to get the Infacol in him. I havenít mentioned the Infacol yet as I was also worried about what theyíd say about its use but when I researched it online John had written an article saying there isnít evidence that it cures gas but it could break up the bubbles more. I canít find the article online now but I took it to be sceptical of its effectiveness but not critical of its use. I have made a list of things to discuss when I go in and it include Simeticone. Freddie is out of sorts again today so back on nursing duties. Iím so cross with myself that I didnít get an appointment this morning! I thought there wouldnít be much they could do for him if heís okay. If he gets worse later Iíll just have to make use of the out of hours once more.


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  4. #74
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    Hi loobers25
    (I agree that the patch on the neck looks like a reaction to immunisation or even another type of injection.)
    1st Many of us know how incredibly stressful it is for the carer to have a stasis prone rabbit.

    Have you looked at a sticky on RU diet? "Diet for stasis prone rabbits"? It will give you a range of totally different diagnoses helped by diet, & some idea of the preferred forage, which can change over time.
    Sometimes it can take a very long time to understand why a rabbit is stasis prone even with care from top exotics vets, but the frequency & severity of stasis can be reduced.
    The idea is to increase the fibre content of the diet to stimulate maximum GI motility, so the rabbit is more able to withstand minor dips in motility which would have previously caused stasis.
    To add to the thread -
    Donampt's Alvin - the rabbit with "attitude" was an incredibly gas prone rabbit. She noticed that just before stasis, he drank less water & could avert full stasis with a combination of diet & syringe feeding him water at the 1st sign he was deteriorating.The final diagnosis was that he was deaf!! Not so easy to detect, because rabbits can sense so much from vibration through the floor. Eventually realised when he did not respond to a very loud noise in the air & nothing hit the ground! (smaller "bitty poops" can sometimes be an indicator of dehydration.

    Loss of a partner rabbit can make the survivor feel very insecure from predators depending on their basic temperament when a major sense is compromised - stress - but they may not appear to be nervous from our viewpoint.
    It can be helped by giving them "rabbit runs" access behind furniture eg move the sofa away from the wall. Distance should be just greater than the span of his whiskers -(The way rabbits know they have a free run & won't get stuck)
    They also like "hidey holes" a place where they can see/feel what is going on with multiple exits, from an enclosed place (material is good because they can "nose it up" to do a runner to the next space).
    By & large rabbits feel vulnerable in an open space without plenty of protective company which can be us. They can hear the predatory "night life" - cats or urban foxes through locked double glazing!

    Pretty Lupin's Nino was another bloat prone rabbit. Final diagnosis - congenital deformity of shoulders - painful - but there was no indication whatsoever of any problems hopping - he was highly mobile. It was detected by chance on X-R
    The partner rabbit - Poppy - was another bloat rabbit with severe behaviour disorder which even defied Anne MacBride!! When Nino passed, (from heart attack - not bloat) Poppy stopped getting bloat - she was a rare rabbit who preferred no partner, but there were no indictions of poor bonding.

    Both rabbits were on a pellet free diet - hay & forage, but the hay was meadow hay with a good range of different grasses & plants (Some farmers sell it in bags) i know several dysbiosis prone rabbits only controlled by a pellet free diet.
    Outdoor rabbits definately don't need any pellets. There is difference of opinion about whether indoor rabbits can get sufficient vit D3 without exposure to direct sunlight. Vit D3 can be stored so a sunny patch through open windows in summer can provide enough exposureto UVB

    Plenty of excercise - a good run round is also a great help for GI motility especially for bloat prone rabbits. It sounds tough on them, but can avert fully developed bloat.

    My personal experience is that many stasis prone rabbits do indeed prefer forage which helps them. I could tell more about Thumper's GI state by what he chose to eat than waiting for the poop to appear! I have no idea of herbal medicine. I'd see what Thumper preferred - look up the medicinal properties of that plant & try to work it out. eg willow leaves & small twigs have NSAI in them - rabbit may be going for pain relief if willow leaves are preferred.

    Small twigs won't gve any problems with blockage at all. ( a log may do so because of the dense fibrous layer under the bark)
    Fresh forage is best because of the high water content. (Wild rabbits don't drink water relying on fresh plants, roots, & live twigs, perhaps dew, for all their requirements) When GI motility slows down (less through put) our rabbits will cut back on water in preference to fibre needed to maintain GI motility - hence Alvin's problem.
    None of us can do all of this all the time. Even fresh foragers have to rely on dried forage to get through winter!!
    We are very restricted in rented accommodation. We can only do our best.
    i hope this essay gives you a few ideas to work on. Some not possible in your situation. Some won't help. But perhaps they open a few doors for you to adapt to your own situation.

    ps Dill is also a great help with gas. The leaves aren't supposed to help but I find that they can. Dill seed is the active ingredient in gripe water & normalises gut contractions (stops painful contractions (colick). Infacol breaks up foam.
    (The problem with gas in the gut is that it makes a foam of bubbles which can't be propelled forward. Maybe a combination of infacol & gripe water would be more effective than either alone???
    Last edited by thumps_; 24-03-2018 at 04:09 PM.

  5. #75
    Young Bun zoe2112's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thumps_ View Post
    Hi loobers25
    (I agree that the patch on the neck looks like a reaction to immunisation or even another type of injection.)
    1st Many of us know how incredibly stressful it is for the carer to have a stasis prone rabbit.

    Have you looked at a sticky on RU diet? "Diet for stasis prone rabbits"? It will give you a range of totally different diagnoses helped by diet, & some idea of the preferred forage, which can change over time.
    Sometimes it can take a very long time to understand why a rabbit is stasis prone even with care from top exotics vets, but the frequency & severity of stasis can be reduced.
    The idea is to increase the fibre content of the diet to stimulate maximum GI motility, so the rabbit is more able to withstand minor dips in motility which would have previously caused stasis.
    To add to the thread -
    Donampt's Alvin - the rabbit with "attitude" was an incredibly gas prone rabbit. She noticed that just before stasis, he drank less water & could avert full stasis with a combination of diet & syringe feeding him water at the 1st sign he was deteriorating.The final diagnosis was that he was deaf!! Not so easy to detect, because rabbits can sense so much from vibration through the floor. Eventually realised when he did not respond to a very loud noise in the air & nothing hit the ground! (smaller "bitty poops" can sometimes be an indicator of dehydration.

    Loss of a partner rabbit can make the survivor feel very insecure from predators depending on their basic temperament when a major sense is compromised - stress - but they may not appear to be nervous from our viewpoint.
    It can be helped by giving them "rabbit runs" access behind furniture eg move the sofa away from the wall. Distance should be just greater than the span of his whiskers -(The way rabbits know they have a free run & won't get stuck)
    They also like "hidey holes" a place where they can see/feel what is going on with multiple exits, from an enclosed place (material is good because they can "nose it up" to do a runner to the next space).
    By & large rabbits feel vulnerable in an open space without plenty of protective company which can be us. They can hear the predatory "night life" - cats or urban foxes through locked double glazing!

    Pretty Lupin's Nino was another bloat prone rabbit. Final diagnosis - congenital deformity of shoulders - painful - but there was no indication whatsoever of any problems hopping - he was highly mobile. It was detected by chance on X-R
    The partner rabbit - Poppy - was another bloat rabbit with severe behaviour disorder which even defied Anne MacBride!! When Nino passed, (from heart attack - not bloat) Poppy stopped getting bloat - she was a rare rabbit who preferred no partner, but there were no indictions of poor bonding.

    Both rabbits were on a pellet free diet - hay & forage, but the hay was meadow hay with a good range of different grasses & plants (Some farmers sell it in bags) i know several dysbiosis prone rabbits only controlled by a pellet free diet.
    Outdoor rabbits definately don't need any pellets. There is difference of opinion about whether indoor rabbits can get sufficient vit D3 without exposure to direct sunlight. Vit D3 can be stored so a sunny patch through open windows in summer can provide enough exposureto UVB

    Plenty of excercise - a good run round is also a great help for GI motility especially for bloat prone rabbits. It sounds tough on them, but can avert fully developed bloat.

    My personal experience is that many stasis prone rabbits do indeed prefer forage which helps them. I could tell more about Thumper's GI state by what he chose to eat than waiting for the poop to appear! I have no idea of herbal medicine. I'd see what Thumper preferred - look up the medicinal properties of that plant & try to work it out. eg willow leaves & small twigs have NSAI in them - rabbit may be going for pain relief if willow leaves are preferred.

    Small twigs won't gve any problems with blockage at all. ( a log may do so because of the dense fibrous layer under the bark)
    Fresh forage is best because of the high water content. (Wild rabbits don't drink water relying on fresh plants, roots, & live twigs, perhaps dew, for all their requirements) When GI motility slows down (less through put) our rabbits will cut back on water in preference to fibre needed to maintain GI motility - hence Alvin's problem.
    None of us can do all of this all the time. Even fresh foragers have to rely on dried forage to get through winter!!
    We are very restricted in rented accommodation. We can only do our best.
    i hope this essay gives you a few ideas to work on. Some not possible in your situation. Some won't help. But perhaps they open a few doors for you to adapt to your own situation.

    ps Dill is also a great help with gas. The leaves aren't supposed to help but I find that they can. Dill seed is the active ingredient in gripe water & normalises gut contractions (stops painful contractions (colick). Infacol breaks up foam.
    (The problem with gas in the gut is that it makes a foam of bubbles which can't be propelled forward. Maybe a combination of infacol & gripe water would be more effective than either alone???
    Thanks for the reply, such a wealth of knowledge!

    Iíve put down a runner in his room to encourage him to run about a bit more. He has laminate in his bedroom. He mostly hangs out on the double bed though so slipping about. Heís mostly eating meadow hay now and some readigrass. He has no interest in the Excel timothy has I bought him but he used to love the Alfalfa King timothy hay. Heís drinking more water than he used to which I assumed was due to the lack of water coming from veggies. Iíll take your advice and pop it on the diet section too.

    Thanks again


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  6. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by zoe2112 View Post
    Thanks for the reply, such a wealth of knowledge!

    I’ve put down a runner in his room to encourage him to run about a bit more. He has laminate in his bedroom. He mostly hangs out on the double bed though so slipping about. He’s mostly eating meadow hay now and some readigrass. He has no interest in the Excel timothy has I bought him but he used to love the Alfalfa King timothy hay. He’s drinking more water than he used to which I assumed was due to the lack of water coming from veggies. I’ll take your advice and pop it on the diet section too.

    Thanks again


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    My pleasure. I add that much of the knowledge was gained from a group of us, most have now left RU. We had a personal "war on stasis"!
    Yes, laminate is very hard on them, their furry feet slip badly, & there's no grip for their nails. This can sprain their ligaments a bit.

    I wonder whether you can give him a bit more space to run? Finances can be a problem. Even covering the whole floor with cardboard taped down firmly so it can't slip, will help.
    For a hidey place I put shallow cardboard boxes under the bed leaving him a free run between them & the wall. The boxes had an entrance from the wall side & were interlinked with rabbit sized holes along the length.
    When using cardboard for stasis prone rabbits we have to be very careful that they don't eat it for the wood pulp. This WILL cause blockage (the sizing binds it toigether even if rabbit chews it well = makes a large soggy mass.
    Benjie was into cardboard architecture rather than eating - Loads of mess like cardboard confetti.

  7. #77
    Young Bun zoe2112's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thumps_ View Post
    My pleasure. I add that much of the knowledge was gained from a group of us, most have now left RU. We had a personal "war on stasis"!
    Yes, laminate is very hard on them, their furry feet slip badly, & there's no grip for their nails. This can sprain their ligaments a bit.

    I wonder whether you can give him a bit more space to run? Finances can be a problem. Even covering the whole floor with cardboard taped down firmly so it can't slip, will help.
    For a hidey place I put shallow cardboard boxes under the bed leaving him a free run between them & the wall. The boxes had an entrance from the wall side & were interlinked with rabbit sized holes along the length.
    When using cardboard for stasis prone rabbits we have to be very careful that they don't eat it for the wood pulp. This WILL cause blockage (the sizing binds it toigether even if rabbit chews it well = makes a large soggy mass.
    Benjie was into cardboard architecture rather than eating - Loads of mess like cardboard confetti.
    In the evenings he is free roam. He chewed up a carpet before so we donít want to risk him eating that. He also had been playing in a cardboard box the day before he went into stasis and I havenít let him near cardboard. Iím going to look for some of those foamy jigsaw pieces people have in playrooms but will have to see whether heíll nibble that too. He moves about easily on the laminate, heís part rex so his paws arenít nearly as fluffy as most bunnies. The room he is in during the day is a large double bedroom, heíd usually have the hallway too but thatís currently occupied by his future wife and we need to wait a few more weeks until we start the bonding process (sheís recently spayed). His room as a few hiding places yet he prefers to sit at the end of the bed. I think I could convince my husband to let me get a Manor Pet Housing haven created but I was thinking of waiting until they were bonded to avoid him being territorial.




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  8. #78
    Wise Old Thumper SarahP's Avatar
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    I used to have big picnic blankets for bunnies to run around on. The house looked awful but the bunnies liked it!
    Sarah.

    RIP Dusty and Clover bunnies xxx
    Misty and Pearl guinea pigs

  9. #79
    Warren Veteran loobers25's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thumps_ View Post
    My pleasure. I add that much of the knowledge was gained from a group of us, most have now left RU. We had a personal "war on stasis"!
    Yes, laminate is very hard on them, their furry feet slip badly, & there's no grip for their nails. This can sprain their ligaments a bit.

    I wonder whether you can give him a bit more space to run? Finances can be a problem. Even covering the whole floor with cardboard taped down firmly so it can't slip, will help.
    For a hidey place I put shallow cardboard boxes under the bed leaving him a free run between them & the wall. The boxes had an entrance from the wall side & were interlinked with rabbit sized holes along the length.
    When using cardboard for stasis prone rabbits we have to be very careful that they don't eat it for the wood pulp. This WILL cause blockage (the sizing binds it toigether even if rabbit chews it well = makes a large soggy mass.
    Benjie was into cardboard architecture rather than eating - Loads of mess like cardboard confetti.
    Thank you thumps! MM sent me your diet stasis thread and I have put a lot of that in motion. Toby is eating lots of twigs, black current leafs etc. He's pellet free now too!

    Tobys stasis starting when he lost Millie. That has made me think about the hide wholes etc I'm going to have a look and see what I can do. Do you think tunnels would provide this too?

    I have Infacol but read on the rwaf website it wasn't recommend so I've always been nervous of it. Thank you so much thumps!

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    Last edited by loobers25; 24-03-2018 at 07:34 PM.

  10. #80
    Warren Veteran loobers25's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zoe2112 View Post
    In the evenings he is free roam. He chewed up a carpet before so we donít want to risk him eating that. He also had been playing in a cardboard box the day before he went into stasis and I havenít let him near cardboard. Iím going to look for some of those foamy jigsaw pieces people have in playrooms but will have to see whether heíll nibble that too. He moves about easily on the laminate, heís part rex so his paws arenít nearly as fluffy as most bunnies. The room he is in during the day is a large double bedroom, heíd usually have the hallway too but thatís currently occupied by his future wife and we need to wait a few more weeks until we start the bonding process (sheís recently spayed). His room as a few hiding places yet he prefers to sit at the end of the bed. I think I could convince my husband to let me get a Manor Pet Housing haven created but I was thinking of waiting until they were bonded to avoid him being territorial.




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    We just bought some jigsaw flooring from halfords, it has quite big coverage! Has Freddie always been a single bun or has he lost a partner?

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