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Stasis prone bunnies

Lucy, just seen this thread. You are more than welcome to have some of those Timothy pellets to try Toby with, for his meds? They are just compressed hay. Let me know and I can bring them over to you :)
 
Hi neighbour!

I have a few questions.

What brand of hay do you use and where do you buy it?

What treats do you give?

Where did Freddie come from?

How old is Freddie and when did he start getting these episodes.

The day that Toby had his last episode he ate his breakfast in around two seconds. So maybe I'm thinking he's swallowing in them whole then they are expanding in his tummy perhaps? I have took him off excel and in the mean time I'm using digestive health sticks so he has to take longer to chew.

Does Freddie eat quickly?

Xx

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Yes Toby has had bloods and x rays which revealed that he had a enlarged heart. He's on treatment for that yet had another episode.

Toby is on the same digestive health sticks as Freddie now. That's worrying he is at experiencing gas.

I have changed a few things to his diet including only using his bowl for meds. He gets one stick for breakfast then I scatter forage in his hay.
Following the advice on here I'm trying a more natural diet.
He has:
Blackcurrant leaves
Apple twigs ( he's eats a lot of these which he never used to)
Chicory root
Dandelion root
Plantain
Dandelion
Marigolds

I also have birch leaves, rasperry leaves, oxbow digestive health on the way. The oxbow biscuits seem interesting - have a look at those. I also have willow bark, sun flowers and rose petals here. This is all ordered from the hay experts. I have also ordered the pellets recommended on here (back to nature??) My hay is from Timothyhay.co.uk and is alot cheaper than the shops nice long strands too! Oh and we are also having oxbow papaya tablets.



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Thank you for the reply, has Toby had xrays and bloods done?

Hay-wise he has had a combination. Previously Oxbow oat hay (Amazon), Alfalfa King timothy hay (P@H), Burgess Excel Feeding Hay (Dandelion and Marigold) (P@H), meadow hay maxi pack (The Range) - recently bought for litter tray but he eats it too.

Treats: Readigrass, occasional Naturals Carrotys (crunchy treats)

I don't give him fresh fruit and veg at the moment for fear of gas but will give romaine to hide Infacol if he is gassy

I bought Freddie from someone in Totton. He is 7 months old, he started getting the episodes 9 days after his neuter in February (hospitalised with GI stasis) but before his neuter he was very picky with food so I had been to the vets regarding this as I'd tried so many different types of pellets. He has been hospitalised again this month due to gas and had his investigations done. He almost went in last week as he was gassy and uncomfortable when I went home at lunchtime but I gave him some Infacol and syringe fed him some water and he was fine when I got home after work so the vets said I didn't need to come in.

He doesn't hoover his food so I don't think that causes it. When I am at work he is quite sedatory (I can check in on him on the pet cam) but I don't know whether that is a cause or a symptom. He's now on VetCare Digestive Plus sticks but he is still getting gas and this morning he wasn't interested in them, someone has suggested trying Oxbow but I think I might need to try him on just a hay diet first but I'm worried about him not getting enough nutrients without fresh veg.

At one point I suspected that he was eating his Back2Nature litter so that is why he now has the meadow hay as that covers the newspaper in his litter tray. As he's still getting gas I guess that wasn't the cause either.

Part of me wonders whether he would bring himself out of it if I didn't notice and start fussing over him, though I found him in GI stasis when I worked late and had been out for 12 hours so I don't know whether he had gas to start with which progressed due to not being treated. It's an absolute minefield!
I go home on lunch time now to check Toby too. That's good that the Infacol is working though isn't it? But it's really exhausting trying to get to the bottom of things. Do you think Freddie could be stressed? Obviously I know that the trigger for Toby was initially his heart but I definitely believe those pellets effected him. Toby is very fussy in the sense he won't eat anything moist ie fresh forage or veg. We are back next Tuesday so I'm going to ask about vitamins supplements etc as im worried :/

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Lucy, just seen this thread. You are more than welcome to have some of those Timothy pellets to try Toby with, for his meds? They are just compressed hay. Let me know and I can bring them over to you :)
Thank you Catherine that's kind of you Xx

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Interesting ingredients?
908892913eb4ac62eb2e8d40b86f00ef.jpg


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I go home on lunch time now to check Toby too. That's good that the Infacol is working though isn't it? But it's really exhausting trying to get to the bottom of things. Do you think Freddie could be stressed? Obviously I know that the trigger for Toby was initially his heart but I definitely believe those pellets effected him. Toby is very fussy in the sense he won't eat anything moist ie fresh forage or veg. We are back next Tuesday so I'm going to ask about vitamins supplements etc as im worried :/

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I’m going to look into the stuff from the hay website, does it come in a large bag? I have no idea what 9kg looks like and as I live in a flat I’m concerned a huge bale will turn up. I’ve read about the long strands and that fills me with joy as the burgess stuff is tiny flakes which get EVERYWHERE.

I thought stress could be a factor as we’ve moved in a future wife for him but Margot came home after he’d recovered from his initial GI stasis hospitalisation. They’ll be bonded once he’s better and she’s a few more weeks clear from her spay.

At the moment he’s mostly on hay and I only give him a little food when I get home from work so I can give him tummy massages and infacol if necessary in the evening. I’m managing it okay at home and am planning to take him in over the Easter break but I’m such a worrier that I have no doubt I’ll be in next week too!


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I’m going to look into the stuff from the hay website, does it come in a large bag? I have no idea what 9kg looks like and as I live in a flat I’m concerned a huge bale will turn up. I’ve read about the long strands and that fills me with joy as the burgess stuff is tiny flakes which get EVERYWHERE.

I thought stress could be a factor as we’ve moved in a future wife for him but Margot came home after he’d recovered from his initial GI stasis hospitalisation. They’ll be bonded once he’s better and she’s a few more weeks clear from her spay.

At the moment he’s mostly on hay and I only give him a little food when I get home from work so I can give him tummy massages and infacol if necessary in the evening. I’m managing it okay at home and am planning to take him in over the Easter break but I’m such a worrier that I have no doubt I’ll be in next week too!


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I think I spoke too soon. Freddie has gas that won’t seem to shift tonight. He keeps flopping out even though he’s getting fed up with me fussing over him. He’s still eating hay and pooping and last time I called the out of hours they told me to wait until morning, looks like I have a sleepless night ahead of me. I’ve also found a scab behind his head, kind of between his shoulder blades. The internet searches suggest it’s from meds injected but he was last in about 2 weeks ago so seems quite a delayed reaction.


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I think I spoke too soon. Freddie has gas that won’t seem to shift tonight. He keeps flopping out even though he’s getting fed up with me fussing over him. He’s still eating hay and pooping and last time I called the out of hours they told me to wait until morning, looks like I have a sleepless night ahead of me. I’ve also found a scab behind his head, kind of between his shoulder blades. The internet searches suggest it’s from meds injected but he was last in about 2 weeks ago so seems quite a delayed reaction.


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Oh no poor Freddie :, ( What's the situation this morning

Hmm that's weird, I have spoken to anton vets today as my maple (Tobys soon to be wife) has had a reaction to a vaccine that she had two weeks ago. Hers is more lumped than scabby though.

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Oh no poor Freddie :, ( What's the situation this morning

Hmm that's weird, I have spoken to anton vets today as my maple (Tobys soon to be wife) has had a reaction to a vaccine that she had two weeks ago. Hers is more lumped than scabby though.

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He’s doing okay today, he managed to get over it about and hour after the third dose of Infacol, usually he only needs one dose. I think I could even feel an air bubble when I was rubbing his tummy, it felt like his whole stomach did when he was in stasis. I held off taking him as he’s doing okay today and binkying about quite happily. I’m starting to think I can see a hint of a head tilt but I don’t know if that’s all in my head as I lost my last bunny that way. I’m starting to think I’m going crazy, my husband definitely thinks I am! I’ve attached a photo of his scab behind his head.
541a88d83257fb506722518c35dd00c3.jpg

200865b7e6d33243035d7e5f99181a7c.jpg




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He’s doing okay today, he managed to get over it about and hour after the third dose of Infacol, usually he only needs one dose. I think I could even feel an air bubble when I was rubbing his tummy, it felt like his whole stomach did when he was in stasis. I held off taking him as he’s doing okay today and binkying about quite happily. I’m starting to think I can see a hint of a head tilt but I don’t know if that’s all in my head as I lost my last bunny that way. I’m starting to think I’m going crazy, my husband definitely thinks I am! I’ve attached a photo of his scab behind his head.
541a88d83257fb506722518c35dd00c3.jpg

200865b7e6d33243035d7e5f99181a7c.jpg




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Phew I'm glad he is doing better today. Does the vets know you use Infacol? I have always wondered what they think about that. What did he have for dinner last night? What's your gut feeling the trigger is? Xx

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I would say by the pictures online that looks like a reaction to vaccination. I'm getting mine checked Tuesday though as hers is quite a big lump!

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I would say by the pictures online that looks like a reaction to vaccination. I'm getting mine checked Tuesday though as hers is quite a big lump!

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Dinner was simply hay of various forms and some romaine once he had gas to get the Infacol in him. I haven’t mentioned the Infacol yet as I was also worried about what they’d say about its use but when I researched it online John had written an article saying there isn’t evidence that it cures gas but it could break up the bubbles more. I can’t find the article online now but I took it to be sceptical of its effectiveness but not critical of its use. I have made a list of things to discuss when I go in and it include Simeticone. Freddie is out of sorts again today so back on nursing duties. I’m so cross with myself that I didn’t get an appointment this morning! I thought there wouldn’t be much they could do for him if he’s okay. If he gets worse later I’ll just have to make use of the out of hours once more.


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:wave: Hi loobers25
(I agree that the patch on the neck looks like a reaction to immunisation or even another type of injection.)
1st Many of us know how incredibly stressful it is for the carer to have a stasis prone rabbit.

Have you looked at a sticky on RU diet? "Diet for stasis prone rabbits"? It will give you a range of totally different diagnoses helped by diet, & some idea of the preferred forage, which can change over time.
Sometimes it can take a very long time to understand why a rabbit is stasis prone even with care from top exotics vets, but the frequency & severity of stasis can be reduced.
The idea is to increase the fibre content of the diet to stimulate maximum GI motility, so the rabbit is more able to withstand minor dips in motility which would have previously caused stasis.
To add to the thread -
Donampt's Alvin - the rabbit with "attitude" was an incredibly gas prone rabbit. She noticed that just before stasis, he drank less water & could avert full stasis with a combination of diet & syringe feeding him water at the 1st sign he was deteriorating.The final diagnosis was that he was deaf!! Not so easy to detect, because rabbits can sense so much from vibration through the floor. Eventually realised when he did not respond to a very loud noise in the air & nothing hit the ground! (smaller "bitty poops" can sometimes be an indicator of dehydration.

Loss of a partner rabbit can make the survivor feel very insecure from predators depending on their basic temperament when a major sense is compromised - stress - but they may not appear to be nervous from our viewpoint.
It can be helped by giving them "rabbit runs" access behind furniture eg move the sofa away from the wall. Distance should be just greater than the span of his whiskers -(The way rabbits know they have a free run & won't get stuck)
They also like "hidey holes" a place where they can see/feel what is going on with multiple exits, from an enclosed place (material is good because they can "nose it up" to do a runner to the next space).
By & large rabbits feel vulnerable in an open space without plenty of protective company which can be us. They can hear the predatory "night life" - cats or urban foxes through locked double glazing!

Pretty Lupin's Nino was another bloat prone rabbit. Final diagnosis - congenital deformity of shoulders - painful - but there was no indication whatsoever of any problems hopping - he was highly mobile. It was detected by chance on X-R
The partner rabbit - Poppy - was another bloat rabbit with severe behaviour disorder which even defied Anne MacBride!! When Nino passed, (from heart attack - not bloat) Poppy stopped getting bloat - she was a rare rabbit who preferred no partner, but there were no indictions of poor bonding.

Both rabbits were on a pellet free diet - hay & forage, but the hay was meadow hay with a good range of different grasses & plants (Some farmers sell it in bags) i know several dysbiosis prone rabbits only controlled by a pellet free diet.
Outdoor rabbits definately don't need any pellets. There is difference of opinion about whether indoor rabbits can get sufficient vit D3 without exposure to direct sunlight. Vit D3 can be stored so a sunny patch through open windows in summer can provide enough exposureto UVB

Plenty of excercise - a good run round is also a great help for GI motility especially for bloat prone rabbits. It sounds tough on them, but can avert fully developed bloat.

My personal experience is that many stasis prone rabbits do indeed prefer forage which helps them. I could tell more about Thumper's GI state by what he chose to eat than waiting for the poop to appear! I have no idea of herbal medicine. I'd see what Thumper preferred - look up the medicinal properties of that plant & try to work it out. eg willow leaves & small twigs have NSAI in them - rabbit may be going for pain relief if willow leaves are preferred.

Small twigs won't gve any problems with blockage at all. ( a log may do so because of the dense fibrous layer under the bark)
Fresh forage is best because of the high water content. (Wild rabbits don't drink water relying on fresh plants, roots, & live twigs, perhaps dew, for all their requirements) When GI motility slows down (less through put) our rabbits will cut back on water in preference to fibre needed to maintain GI motility - hence Alvin's problem.
None of us can do all of this all the time. Even fresh foragers have to rely on dried forage to get through winter!!
We are very restricted in rented accommodation. We can only do our best.
i hope this essay gives you a few ideas to work on. Some not possible in your situation. Some won't help. But perhaps they open a few doors for you to adapt to your own situation.

ps Dill is also a great help with gas. The leaves aren't supposed to help but I find that they can. Dill seed is the active ingredient in gripe water & normalises gut contractions (stops painful contractions (colick). Infacol breaks up foam.
(The problem with gas in the gut is that it makes a foam of bubbles which can't be propelled forward. Maybe a combination of infacol & gripe water would be more effective than either alone???
 
Last edited:
:wave: Hi loobers25
(I agree that the patch on the neck looks like a reaction to immunisation or even another type of injection.)
1st Many of us know how incredibly stressful it is for the carer to have a stasis prone rabbit.

Have you looked at a sticky on RU diet? "Diet for stasis prone rabbits"? It will give you a range of totally different diagnoses helped by diet, & some idea of the preferred forage, which can change over time.
Sometimes it can take a very long time to understand why a rabbit is stasis prone even with care from top exotics vets, but the frequency & severity of stasis can be reduced.
The idea is to increase the fibre content of the diet to stimulate maximum GI motility, so the rabbit is more able to withstand minor dips in motility which would have previously caused stasis.
To add to the thread -
Donampt's Alvin - the rabbit with "attitude" was an incredibly gas prone rabbit. She noticed that just before stasis, he drank less water & could avert full stasis with a combination of diet & syringe feeding him water at the 1st sign he was deteriorating.The final diagnosis was that he was deaf!! Not so easy to detect, because rabbits can sense so much from vibration through the floor. Eventually realised when he did not respond to a very loud noise in the air & nothing hit the ground! (smaller "bitty poops" can sometimes be an indicator of dehydration.

Loss of a partner rabbit can make the survivor feel very insecure from predators depending on their basic temperament when a major sense is compromised - stress - but they may not appear to be nervous from our viewpoint.
It can be helped by giving them "rabbit runs" access behind furniture eg move the sofa away from the wall. Distance should be just greater than the span of his whiskers -(The way rabbits know they have a free run & won't get stuck)
They also like "hidey holes" a place where they can see/feel what is going on with multiple exits, from an enclosed place (material is good because they can "nose it up" to do a runner to the next space).
By & large rabbits feel vulnerable in an open space without plenty of protective company which can be us. They can hear the predatory "night life" - cats or urban foxes through locked double glazing!

Pretty Lupin's Nino was another bloat prone rabbit. Final diagnosis - congenital deformity of shoulders - painful - but there was no indication whatsoever of any problems hopping - he was highly mobile. It was detected by chance on X-R
The partner rabbit - Poppy - was another bloat rabbit with severe behaviour disorder which even defied Anne MacBride!! When Nino passed, (from heart attack - not bloat) Poppy stopped getting bloat - she was a rare rabbit who preferred no partner, but there were no indictions of poor bonding.

Both rabbits were on a pellet free diet - hay & forage, but the hay was meadow hay with a good range of different grasses & plants (Some farmers sell it in bags) i know several dysbiosis prone rabbits only controlled by a pellet free diet.
Outdoor rabbits definately don't need any pellets. There is difference of opinion about whether indoor rabbits can get sufficient vit D3 without exposure to direct sunlight. Vit D3 can be stored so a sunny patch through open windows in summer can provide enough exposureto UVB

Plenty of excercise - a good run round is also a great help for GI motility especially for bloat prone rabbits. It sounds tough on them, but can avert fully developed bloat.

My personal experience is that many stasis prone rabbits do indeed prefer forage which helps them. I could tell more about Thumper's GI state by what he chose to eat than waiting for the poop to appear! I have no idea of herbal medicine. I'd see what Thumper preferred - look up the medicinal properties of that plant & try to work it out. eg willow leaves & small twigs have NSAI in them - rabbit may be going for pain relief if willow leaves are preferred.

Small twigs won't gve any problems with blockage at all. ( a log may do so because of the dense fibrous layer under the bark)
Fresh forage is best because of the high water content. (Wild rabbits don't drink water relying on fresh plants, roots, & live twigs, perhaps dew, for all their requirements) When GI motility slows down (less through put) our rabbits will cut back on water in preference to fibre needed to maintain GI motility - hence Alvin's problem.
None of us can do all of this all the time. Even fresh foragers have to rely on dried forage to get through winter!!
We are very restricted in rented accommodation. We can only do our best.
i hope this essay gives you a few ideas to work on. Some not possible in your situation. Some won't help. But perhaps they open a few doors for you to adapt to your own situation.

ps Dill is also a great help with gas. The leaves aren't supposed to help but I find that they can. Dill seed is the active ingredient in gripe water & normalises gut contractions (stops painful contractions (colick). Infacol breaks up foam.
(The problem with gas in the gut is that it makes a foam of bubbles which can't be propelled forward. Maybe a combination of infacol & gripe water would be more effective than either alone???

Thanks for the reply, such a wealth of knowledge!

I’ve put down a runner in his room to encourage him to run about a bit more. He has laminate in his bedroom. He mostly hangs out on the double bed though so slipping about. He’s mostly eating meadow hay now and some readigrass. He has no interest in the Excel timothy has I bought him but he used to love the Alfalfa King timothy hay. He’s drinking more water than he used to which I assumed was due to the lack of water coming from veggies. I’ll take your advice and pop it on the diet section too.

Thanks again :)


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Thanks for the reply, such a wealth of knowledge!

I’ve put down a runner in his room to encourage him to run about a bit more. He has laminate in his bedroom. He mostly hangs out on the double bed though so slipping about. He’s mostly eating meadow hay now and some readigrass. He has no interest in the Excel timothy has I bought him but he used to love the Alfalfa King timothy hay. He’s drinking more water than he used to which I assumed was due to the lack of water coming from veggies. I’ll take your advice and pop it on the diet section too.

Thanks again :)


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My pleasure.:D I add that much of the knowledge was gained from a group of us, most have now left RU. We had a personal "war on stasis"!
Yes, laminate is very hard on them, their furry feet slip badly, & there's no grip for their nails. This can sprain their ligaments a bit.

I wonder whether you can give him a bit more space to run? Finances can be a problem. Even covering the whole floor with cardboard taped down firmly so it can't slip, will help.
For a hidey place I put shallow cardboard boxes under the bed leaving him a free run between them & the wall. The boxes had an entrance from the wall side & were interlinked with rabbit sized holes along the length.
When using cardboard for stasis prone rabbits we have to be very careful that they don't eat it for the wood pulp. This WILL cause blockage (the sizing binds it toigether even if rabbit chews it well = makes a large soggy mass.
Benjie was into cardboard architecture rather than eating - Loads of mess like cardboard confetti.
 
My pleasure.:D I add that much of the knowledge was gained from a group of us, most have now left RU. We had a personal "war on stasis"!
Yes, laminate is very hard on them, their furry feet slip badly, & there's no grip for their nails. This can sprain their ligaments a bit.

I wonder whether you can give him a bit more space to run? Finances can be a problem. Even covering the whole floor with cardboard taped down firmly so it can't slip, will help.
For a hidey place I put shallow cardboard boxes under the bed leaving him a free run between them & the wall. The boxes had an entrance from the wall side & were interlinked with rabbit sized holes along the length.
When using cardboard for stasis prone rabbits we have to be very careful that they don't eat it for the wood pulp. This WILL cause blockage (the sizing binds it toigether even if rabbit chews it well = makes a large soggy mass.
Benjie was into cardboard architecture rather than eating - Loads of mess like cardboard confetti.

In the evenings he is free roam. He chewed up a carpet before so we don’t want to risk him eating that. He also had been playing in a cardboard box the day before he went into stasis and I haven’t let him near cardboard. I’m going to look for some of those foamy jigsaw pieces people have in playrooms but will have to see whether he’ll nibble that too. He moves about easily on the laminate, he’s part rex so his paws aren’t nearly as fluffy as most bunnies. The room he is in during the day is a large double bedroom, he’d usually have the hallway too but that’s currently occupied by his future wife and we need to wait a few more weeks until we start the bonding process (she’s recently spayed). His room as a few hiding places yet he prefers to sit at the end of the bed. I think I could convince my husband to let me get a Manor Pet Housing haven created but I was thinking of waiting until they were bonded to avoid him being territorial.




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I used to have big picnic blankets for bunnies to run around on. The house looked awful but the bunnies liked it!
 
My pleasure.:D I add that much of the knowledge was gained from a group of us, most have now left RU. We had a personal "war on stasis"!
Yes, laminate is very hard on them, their furry feet slip badly, & there's no grip for their nails. This can sprain their ligaments a bit.

I wonder whether you can give him a bit more space to run? Finances can be a problem. Even covering the whole floor with cardboard taped down firmly so it can't slip, will help.
For a hidey place I put shallow cardboard boxes under the bed leaving him a free run between them & the wall. The boxes had an entrance from the wall side & were interlinked with rabbit sized holes along the length.
When using cardboard for stasis prone rabbits we have to be very careful that they don't eat it for the wood pulp. This WILL cause blockage (the sizing binds it toigether even if rabbit chews it well = makes a large soggy mass.
Benjie was into cardboard architecture rather than eating - Loads of mess like cardboard confetti.
Thank you thumps! MM sent me your diet stasis thread and I have put a lot of that in motion. Toby is eating lots of twigs, black current leafs etc. He's pellet free now too!

Tobys stasis starting when he lost Millie. That has made me think about the hide wholes etc I'm going to have a look and see what I can do. Do you think tunnels would provide this too?

I have Infacol but read on the rwaf website it wasn't recommend so I've always been nervous of it. Thank you so much thumps!

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In the evenings he is free roam. He chewed up a carpet before so we don’t want to risk him eating that. He also had been playing in a cardboard box the day before he went into stasis and I haven’t let him near cardboard. I’m going to look for some of those foamy jigsaw pieces people have in playrooms but will have to see whether he’ll nibble that too. He moves about easily on the laminate, he’s part rex so his paws aren’t nearly as fluffy as most bunnies. The room he is in during the day is a large double bedroom, he’d usually have the hallway too but that’s currently occupied by his future wife and we need to wait a few more weeks until we start the bonding process (she’s recently spayed). His room as a few hiding places yet he prefers to sit at the end of the bed. I think I could convince my husband to let me get a Manor Pet Housing haven created but I was thinking of waiting until they were bonded to avoid him being territorial.




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We just bought some jigsaw flooring from halfords, it has quite big coverage! Has Freddie always been a single bun or has he lost a partner?

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