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help in bonding 4 (trio +1 father) - method and strategy needed

Hello,
I have 4 rabbits free room

First I just had a pair. Female got pregnant before neutering and we had several babies.

While they were growing, father had an accident in a maxillary bone and had to stay apart for not chewing or eating hay. That was very unfortunate because he could only come back home when babies were 2 month and were not naturally bonded with him.

We gave some bunnies but stayed with a male and a female
So now 4 (2 girls 2 boys). Father and mother 1 year, daughter and son – 5 month. Only daughter is still not spayed.

When back home, trio father-mother-daughter bond was fine, but son was being bulled with a little chase and bites at the back, so that it was clear that the territory is father’s territory. Son accepted it more or less being attentive and trying to be aware of the father, and we were last month in a process of getting them closer and closer, eating together, same room and they were almost laying together.

The 2 females love father and they are also a good trio with son (so 2 good trios almost being a quadri)

Unfortunately father had a GI stasis and had again to stay 1 ½ day at the vet. Gone back home, son and daughter fought him. Immediately I separated them and slowly, changing rooms I rebounded the trio father-mother-daughter.
Tried first the daughter because they were a good bond before.

After one week changing pairs and rooms daily, so the 2 males share females and smells, last sunday morning (17 feb. 2018) I tried to bond the males in a new house with nothing. Pursue and fight. Tried latter with the girls for distractions and a tenderer and calmer climate. Again pursue and fight but less. Then we came home and tried to see if they would continue fight mode or each one would go to a separated place. Both happened, but still fight and when they were are a same room, calmer (tired also), laying, I separated them each in one room for sleep.

Now is when I really need help!!!!
I set up 2 exact equal pans at the living room (size 2,5m x 1,5 m | 7,5 ft x 4 ft) and 1 m (3,5 ft) apart in front of each other and put a pair in each so that they can see and be more relaxed in the presence of each other.
I had put them only yesterday and it was ok. No aggressive behaviors. At bed time I took a pair to sleep with me and the other stayed free range in the living room with the pans opened.

Questions:
- Any experience or advice in what is the best approach? Change pairs, cages and the most time possible with them seeing each other or separate for a longer time and rebond from scratch? Or other.
- Now they don’t stay in the pan / cages all day. I separate them in different rooms. I wanted to put them there only when I’m at home working or doing house stuff…
- Is it a good idea to let them free (each pair) with access to the two pan areas opened, or should I close them and they just use them when I’m there and in the “bonding programme”?
- I feel changing between room and living room, and changing the females each day is a bit stressfull and if bonding process takes long as I expect, It might unbalance the trios structure and create stress and aggressiveness.
- Separating the females that get so well together might not be good, so I sometimes join them in trios with one of the males. I had a glimpse of pair mother-son with daughter being worst and some chasing when I put the trio together yesterday…

I'm very pacient but a bit ansious now on if i'm taking the right path, or how can I bond this 4.
Tank you so much!!!
Patricia Silva
 
Hello!
before the father went to the vet they were all 4 together, even the 2 males didn't completed bonded (son was a litle apart but getting closer each day)
when he returned 2 days after the son and daughter bitted him and now the son is really into gaining dominance and they bite and chase and fight.
I wonder if its better to keep them in sight and always trying or leave it for a longer time. But the second way will make them both, separated to be definitly dominant (in each territory) and after maybe the problem will be the same.
 
yes,
they get along in pair or trios.
I'm trying to keep trios and pairs happening so that the 2 girls dont get too distant, because I found that the more balanced situation now is 3.
last 2 days i'm doing:
1 - when I come home after work I join them in one trio and one of the males stay alone for 1-2 hours
2 - after that I put 2 pair separeted in the cages in the living room were I'll be
3 - when to sleep I take a pair or a trio with me and the other stays free in the all living room with the cages opened
4 - in the morning i decide hows going to be the pair to stay for the day and separate the 2 pairs

Thank you !
 
My only advice is to put the 2 boys together in the hopes that they bond. I don't know how long this may take but if you are successful then you could then introduce Mum and Daughter to the 2 bonded boys. I wouldn't keep swapping them around as it might only confuse the poor bunnies. Let us know how this is working out.

If the 2 boys won't get along could you have 2 pairs, ie Mum and Dad and Brother and Sister?
 
I am not sure if this is relevant but I had two brothers who fell out badly (I put them together too soon after being neutered). Frosty would attack Snowflake.

I was advised to keep them fully apart, no sight or smell of each other (advised by experienced bonders here on ru) for a few weeks.

I then bonded them along with two does (sisters) who they had never met before. They have been happily together ever since (that was in October 2013).

I know it isnt quite the same situation. Also Spring is a hormonal time and can make them more feisty.

http://forums.rabbitrehome.org.uk/s...now-a-quad-More-pics!&highlight=Bonding+began
 
I am not sure if this is relevant but I had two brothers who fell out badly (I put them together too soon after being neutered). Frosty would attack Snowflake.

I was advised to keep them fully apart, no sight or smell of each other (advised by experienced bonders here on ru) for a few weeks.

I then bonded them along with two does (sisters) who they had never met before. They have been happily together ever since (that was in October 2013).

I know it isnt quite the same situation. Also Spring is a hormonal time and can make them more feisty.

http://forums.rabbitrehome.org.uk/s...now-a-quad-More-pics!&highlight=Bonding+began

This is interesting. So which bunny would you say is the dominant one?
 
hello!
thank you very much for you example.
the link showed that you first tried to bond all of them together or this is when you had the new girls to bond with?
since mine are already bonded with the does, seems not so good idea to break the bond putting them apart.... I noticed that without the does, each boy stay distant and more alert/afraid. that is why I keep the changing the trios. Also because I'm afraid that some weeks might be to much and I would have to rebound males with the girls and more caos that just bonding the boys.
when I put the in sight but on those separated cages , each with a doe, they are calm and hide or sleep.
And some days before I started this plan, I had the off sight, each one at a different room, but the opening/closing of doors, letting just one or the other to be loose with me seemed a little stressful since they were always looking for what happened "outside" and, in order not to be always opening and closing them when I needed to enter a room, made me stand in one room for a long time and not entering and using the all house. Bad for me and for them that stood alone longer times.
what would you suggest? in sight a few hours a day in separate cages or off sight for some weeks? with does or without does?
Pat
 
hello!
thank you very much for you example.
the link showed that you first tried to bond all of them together or this is when you had the new girls to bond with?
since mine are already bonded with the does, seems not so good idea to break the bond putting them apart.... I noticed that without the does, each boy stay distant and more alert/afraid. that is why I keep the changing the trios. Also because I'm afraid that some weeks might be to much and I would have to rebound males with the girls and more caos that just bonding the boys.
when I put the in sight but on those separated cages , each with a doe, they are calm and hide or sleep.
And some days before I started this plan, I had the off sight, each one at a different room, but the opening/closing of doors, letting just one or the other to be loose with me seemed a little stressful since they were always looking for what happened "outside" and, in order not to be always opening and closing them when I needed to enter a room, made me stand in one room for a long time and not entering and using the all house. Bad for me and for them that stood alone longer times.
what would you suggest? in sight a few hours a day in separate cages or off sight for some weeks? with does or without does?
Pat
 
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