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8 Year Old Rabbit with Chronic Kidney Failure requiring a dental

J

JoelyA

New Kit
NHi everyone, looking for a bit of advice (or potentially just a bit of sense knocking back into me!). Riley is now 8 and was diagnosed with chronic kidney disease in early November, they said he had around 3-6 months left with us. That said he’s doing well, drinking, still excited by long sheets of papers and bubble wrap and still enjoying his food, he has lost weight (down from 1.5 to 1.25) but I’m giving him daily critical care as a top up and since doing so his weight has stabilised, other than that I really wouldn’t know that he was ill, he’s slowed down but I honestly think if I didn’t know better I’d had attributed that to his age.

Prior to that he’d also had to have a dental regularly to sort out his back teeth, which with the kidney disease is now a problem because the vet said he can’t have a GA. luckily he’s required his teeth burring less and less over time and hasn’t needed one since the diagnosis (last dental was around July last year) however now 1 tooth (yes just one) is almost touchinghis gum and will soon become a problem.
What I’m struggling with is the idea that I might have to have my little boy pts because of one tooth, if he was suffering with his kidneys I’d be fully prepared to make the decision but just because of one tooth...
So I guess what I’m asking is what would you guys go- would you have him pts as soon as the tooth starts to touch the gum or would you try the GA dor the teeth burring? What I don’t like about the second idea is that I wouldn’t be there any If he didn’t make it through.
I’m fully aware that I’m letting my feelings cloud my judgement on what’s best for Riley, so anybody else’s experiences, thoughts or opinions would be greatly appreciated. Sorry for the lengthy post
Thanks in advance everyone.
 
I think you need to do what feels is in Riley’s best interests and the only ones when can answer that are you and Riley.

There isn’t a blanket rule or a right or a wrong (other than obviously letting him suffer and you’re not in that page at all).

When I’ve been faced with situations like these, I’ve always risked the GA because the bunny wouldn’t know either way and the risk, for mine, has always paid off. Some good of my bunnies are expected to die under GA every time they have one (due to respiratory issues) but when they need one, they need one, so that’s what we do. One day my vets won’t be able to save one but I’ll always know I did whatever was best for that bunny, in that moment, and that will be some comfort in the grief.

Just tryst yourself and trust Riley.
 
I'm sorry you are having this decision to make. My advice would be to see what his quality of life is like when the tooth starts to cause problems. You are doing well to be keeping him going as happy as he is. We lost our first rabbit to kidney failure and he was so poorly at the end I wish we had had him PTS earlier but he was our first and I just kept hoping he would pass peacefully on his own. Take each day one at a time. Thinking of you.

Sent from my SM-G361F using Tapatalk
 
Sky-O said:
I think you need to do what feels is in Riley’s best interests and the only ones when can answer that are you and Riley.

There isn’t a blanket rule or a right or a wrong (other than obviously letting him suffer and you’re not in that page at all).

When I’ve been faced with situations like these, I’ve always risked the GA because the bunny wouldn’t know either way and the risk, for mine, has always paid off. Some good of my bunnies are expected to die under GA every time they have one (due to respiratory issues) but when they need one, they need one, so that’s what we do. One day my vets won’t be able to save one but I’ll always know I did whatever was best for that bunny, in that moment, and that will be some comfort in the grief.

Just tryst yourself and trust Riley.
Click to expand...

Perfectly worded and insightful advice.

Best wishes for Riley xx
 
JoelyA said:
NHi everyone, looking for a bit of advice (or potentially just a bit of sense knocking back into me!). Riley is now 8 and was diagnosed with chronic kidney disease in early November, they said he had around 3-6 months left with us. That said he’s doing well, drinking, still excited by long sheets of papers and bubble wrap and still enjoying his food, he has lost weight (down from 1.5 to 1.25) but I’m giving him daily critical care as a top up and since doing so his weight has stabilised, other than that I really wouldn’t know that he was ill, he’s slowed down but I honestly think if I didn’t know better I’d had attributed that to his age.

Prior to that he’d also had to have a dental regularly to sort out his back teeth, which with the kidney disease is now a problem because the vet said he can’t have a GA. luckily he’s required his teeth burring less and less over time and hasn’t needed one since the diagnosis (last dental was around July last year) however now 1 tooth (yes just one) is almost touchinghis gum and will soon become a problem.
What I’m struggling with is the idea that I might have to have my little boy pts because of one tooth, if he was suffering with his kidneys I’d be fully prepared to make the decision but just because of one tooth...
So I guess what I’m asking is what would you guys go- would you have him pts as soon as the tooth starts to touch the gum or would you try the GA dor the teeth burring? What I don’t like about the second idea is that I wouldn’t be there any If he didn’t make it through.
I’m fully aware that I’m letting my feelings cloud my judgement on what’s best for Riley, so anybody else’s experiences, thoughts or opinions would be greatly appreciated. Sorry for the lengthy post
Thanks in advance everyone.
Click to expand...


Hi there and welcome to the Forum.

What I have always done in cases like yours (and I have had this precise scenario with renal failure and dental issues) is ask a vet who is able to do 'conscious dentals' to perform the task.

Here's some info on conscious dentals:

http://forums.rabbitrehome.org.uk/s...ping-of-cheek-teeth-spurs-without-anaesthesia

Even Frances Harcourt Brown (retired Rabbit Specialist Vet) would do the procedure - and particularly for one tooth.


This is the viewpoint of the RWAF:

Our opinion at the RWAF is that incisor dental shortening can be carried out conscious in the majority of rabbits, (but that this should be done using appropriate tools, and not by clipping which can shatter or split teeth) but that cheek tooth dentistry is best carried out under a short, well maintained anaesthetic to allow full visualisation and assessment of dental disease. However, there may be circumstances where a limited amount of cheek tooth dentistry may be more safely performed conscious. A typical situation is the presence of a single or small number of dental spurs in an easily visualised position, in a calm rabbit, particularly when the animal is not considered a suitable candidate for an anaesthetic (eg through severe dehydration or malnutrition for the dental lesion present, or other underlying disease). This may perhaps be carried out to relieve pain in a seriously unwell rabbit in order to improve his or her fluid and nutritional status prior to a full dental under general anaesthetic. However, if conscious dentistry is considered the default option due to the risks of anaesthesia generally, it is worth reviewing practice anaesthetic protocols for rabbits.





I know there have been people on here say that they would rather their rabbit risked anaesthetic and death than have a conscious dental, so you have to make up your own mind how you feel about this.

Do contact me privately - lots of people have! - if you need any more assistance on this, as tempers tend to get quite heated when I post about conscious dentals.

Good luck whatever you decide xx
 
Last edited:
Thank you very much for this it’s very useful, I’d heard about conscious dentals before but I’d not been able to
Find out much about them so I shall have a good read. He had a check up yesterday and the tooth hasn’t grown anymore so I don’t have to make a snsp decision which is nice. As Riley had a bit more time than I’d thought I asked my vet if they would prescribe fortekor to improve his quality of life but they aren’t prepared to. That says I have found a vet near Birmingham that specialises in small animals and that does conscious dentals so if they would be happy to prescribe fortekor I I might be paying them a visit!
 
JoelyA said:
Thank you very much for this it’s very useful, I’d heard about conscious dentals before but I’d not been able to
Find out much about them so I shall have a good read. He had a check up yesterday and the tooth hasn’t grown anymore so I don’t have to make a snsp decision which is nice. As Riley had a bit more time than I’d thought I asked my vet if they would prescribe fortekor to improve his quality of life but they aren’t prepared to. That says I have found a vet near Birmingham that specialises in small animals and that does conscious dentals so if they would be happy to prescribe fortekor I I might be paying them a visit!
Click to expand...


You're really welcome!

It's a dilemma a lot of us have and so many people contact me privately asking about conscious dentals.

I totally agree - another vet that would consider prescribing Fortekor and that also does conscious dentals would certainly be worth my consideration.

Good luck xx
 
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