Update on Fran

Rhianna said:

Not sure. She certainly tries to kick me when I am giving her her meds and doesn't seem in any pain when I shampoo her legs. Will ask the new vet tomorrow about EC as the other vet didn't mention it. He was nice enough but didn't seem to know very much about rabbits. He intimated I could put them back outside shortly as Fran has recovered. I am working a night shift today so will keep an eye on Fran but none of the bunnies are moving around much anyway Fran certainly pushes and shoves to get her nose into the food bowl when I feed them. I used to scatter feed but use a bowl now so I can make sure she is getting her fair share. I feed her a treat (spinach, herbs, carrot or apple) separately after her medication. I think she may be underweight but the vet didn't seem concerned. I'll get the new one to weigh her and let me know as I can increase her pellets if I need to. They get fed at odd times anyway due to my shifts but are good hay eaters.

Thanks, Jane.

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Is your kitchen flooring tiles/vinyl ? Many Rabbits dont like to hope on that sort of surface as there is not much traction and the Rabbits tend to slip. Putting floor mats/rugs down can help x

Rhianna said:

Fran still isn't 'right'. I don't think she is hopping normally. I told the vet this last time I saw him (a week ago) and he popped her on the floor and she didn't move much. He prescribed metacam which he said would help with any inflammation. Her underneath is much better and he said I could reduce the shampooing to just once a week. She is eating as usual now. He thought he wouldn't need to see her again and I could just 'phone with an update.

I am not happy with that. Fran isn't OK but I am struggling to articulate what exactly is wrong. She does move around the kitchen but it looks different from usual. She is interacting with the other two as usual, eating as usual but is not 'herself'.

I have asked to see the practice bunny specialist who was fully booked today but I am taking Fran in tomorrow morning. Am doing a night shift tonight so that isn't ideal but I don't have any confidence in the vet I am seeing. He didn't even examine Fran's back and legs when I said I thought she was moving differently.

Having them in the kitchen is a nightmare. They are messing all over the floor - puddles as well as droppings - and the dog crate is really in the way as I only have a small kitchen. I wouldn't have wanted them outside in the snow anyway but would like them to go outside as soon as the temperature increases once Fran has recovered (being optimistic here). They are all bored and fed-up with being inside and aren't moving around much even when I am home and remove the barrier in the kitchen so they can access the hallway too. I could set a puppy pen up by the back door so they could access some outside space when I am in the kitchen but I think it is still too cold for that - although my house is not fully double glazed and has a hole in the front door and a cat flap in the back door so downstairs is quite cold anyway. Violet and Zippy are putting on weight as they used to be really active outside. They only get a handful of pellets between the three twice a day anyway and Fran is maintaining her weight now (she lost some) but is not overweight so I can't reduce her pellets.

Vibes for Fran would be really appreciated. I feel I am letting her down and really hope the new vet can suggest a way forward as bloods and a scan didn't reveal what the problem is.

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Sorry to hear this.

Loads of vibes for Fran and strength for you xx

Thank you both. I do have a rug in the kitchen but I guess I could put another one down. Trouble is they are urinating on it and it is too big to fit in the washing machine. If I put small ones down I tend to trip over them, especially now I have the dog crate in the way. Most of the kitchen is covered with the rug as it's only a small room. There aren't any rugs in the hallway though. It probably doesn't help that there is always a cat sleeping in one of their litter trays. I think my mogs have a rota going The buns aren't scared of the cats - they have always interacted well and the cats are all quite old now. When I had house bunnies before they used to squeeze in the litter tray with the cats but these three haven't done that. They have a tray in their crate though and aren't using that much.

I have some boxes I have gathered for my decluttering so I will try to build something for them to play with while I am at work later. There is no room for it when I am home. I can put a tunnel down when I don't need to walk through the room too. Maybe that will encourage them to be more active while I am not there. I put toys down but they were totally ignored

I know its a long way - but do you think an appointment with JC at Anton might help? You would, at least, feel confident that you were getting the best advice/treatment. Just a thought.

Babsie said:

I know its a long way - but do you think an appointment with JC at Anton might help? You would, at least, feel confident that you were getting the best advice/treatment. Just a thought.

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That is actually not a bad idea. Thank you Babs. I am in credit there now as I didn't realise I had cleared the debt and continued with the standing order. I will see what the vet tomorrow says. He is supposed to be the bunny expert at Downland. Much as I hate driving I would willingly take Fran to JC if I don't have confidence in the guy tomorrow. My concern is that all my bunnies absolutely hate being in a carrier. They shake from the minute I put them in until the minute I take them out. They are really terrified. Having said that I still have a courtesy car (been three months now) which is bigger than mine so I could put a dog crate in there and Fran may be OK with that.

I really wish bunnies could talk so I could ask her what she wants. She is getting fed-up with being indoors and having yucky baytril and bottom baths!!

Took Fran to see Dean this morning. I feel more confident with him. I mentioned EC and he agreed it was a possibility. Fran did cooperate today and hopped around the floor so Dean could see what I meant about her not moving properly. She has also lost weight He said we could treat her with Panacur for three weeks in case she does have EC or take another blood test to check for titres (I think that is what he said) first. I didn't want to waste three weeks finding out what the problem is so opted for the blood test and have left her there. I feel mean as I am not picking her up until 1600 but I worked overnight and am back to work for 1830 today so I need to sleep or I won't be safe to drive.

He reassured me that if she had a tumour it would probably have shown up on the scan and he couldn't feel anything untoward either. Her urine scald cleared up with the baytril so he agreed with the first vet that she probably had a urine infection. She is grooming herself now - I have stopped bathing her as it was stressing her out so much. Am worried she has lost weight as she is certainly eating plenty.

More vibes would be appreciated. She is a lovely, gentle bun and accepted all my hands-on care without once trying to bite me.

Rhianna said:

Took Fran to see Dean this morning. I feel more confident with him. I mentioned EC and he agreed it was a possibility. Fran did cooperate today and hopped around the floor so Dean could see what I meant about her not moving properly. She has also lost weight He said we could treat her with Panacur for three weeks in case she does have EC or take another blood test to check for titres (I think that is what he said) first. I didn't want to waste three weeks finding out what the problem is so opted for the blood test and have left her there. I feel mean as I am not picking her up until 1600 but I worked overnight and am back to work for 1830 today so I need to sleep or I won't be safe to drive.

He reassured me that if she had a tumour it would probably have shown up on the scan and he couldn't feel anything untoward either. Her urine scald cleared up with the baytril so he agreed with the first vet that she probably had a urine infection. She is grooming herself now - I have stopped bathing her as it was stressing her out so much. Am worried she has lost weight as she is certainly eating plenty.

More vibes would be appreciated. She is a lovely, gentle bun and accepted all my hands-on care without once trying to bite me.

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Thinking of you K and sending loads of hugs for you xx

Vibes for the gentle Fran x

Rhianna said:

Took Fran to see Dean this morning. I feel more confident with him. I mentioned EC and he agreed it was a possibility. Fran did cooperate today and hopped around the floor so Dean could see what I meant about her not moving properly. She has also lost weight He said we could treat her with Panacur for three weeks in case she does have EC or take another blood test to check for titres (I think that is what he said) first. I didn't want to waste three weeks finding out what the problem is so opted for the blood test and have left her there. I feel mean as I am not picking her up until 1600 but I worked overnight and am back to work for 1830 today so I need to sleep or I won't be safe to drive.

He reassured me that if she had a tumour it would probably have shown up on the scan and he couldn't feel anything untoward either. Her urine scald cleared up with the baytril so he agreed with the first vet that she probably had a urine infection. She is grooming herself now - I have stopped bathing her as it was stressing her out so much. Am worried she has lost weight as she is certainly eating plenty.

More vibes would be appreciated. She is a lovely, gentle bun and accepted all my hands-on care without once trying to bite me.

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I am pleased to read that Fran's urinary tract problems appear to have resolved and that her urine scald is better. You may want to have a read of this information relating to EC :

https://www.dechra.co.uk/therapy-ar...cs-antifungals/disease-information/e-cuniculi

https://rabbitwelfare.co.uk/rabbit-health/e-cuniculi/

Topping up the vibes for Fran x

Vibes for Fran. I'm pleased you feel more confident in the vet you saw.

Jack's-Jane said:

I am pleased to read that Fran's urinary tract problems appear to have resolved and that her urine scald is better. You may want to have a read of this information relating to EC :

https://www.dechra.co.uk/therapy-ar...cs-antifungals/disease-information/e-cuniculi

https://rabbitwelfare.co.uk/rabbit-health/e-cuniculi/

Topping up the vibes for Fran x

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I've read both of these now. Thank you, Jane. It's a bit depressing and maybe I shouldn't have spent more money and put Fran through a horrid procedure having another blood test done as it doesn't look like it is easy to diagnose. It's so hard to know what to do for the best when a bun is not right but all tests are coming back OK.

I am just holding on to the fact that Dean didn't think it was a tumour and that Fran is improving, although she is still not 'right'. Am trying to think if Fran has ever been in a group with my bridge bun Furby as he had EC, along with lots of other illnesses (breeding bun from the Lymington rescue). I don't think she was but they could have been living in close proximity.

Just collected Fran. There was a gorgeous 8 week old yorkypoo pup there so I had a stroke and got a lick on my nose which made my day. Have never seen a yorkypoo. He was pure black and adorable I am still hoping to get a dog one day if I ever manage to reduce the hours I am out of the house.

Poor Fran looks a bit sorry for herself. I feel bad keep putting her through horrid procedures. The vet will call me with the blood test results and we will go from there. I am hoping to visit Mrs B next week as my original visit was cancelled due to the snow.

I am not giving Fran any meds now. She has finished her course of antibiotics and the metacam seemed to have no effect at all. If I do think she needs it I can just pop in and collect some - I don't have to take her back. I am home for most of tomorrow and think I will try to make a Victoria sandwich cake so I will be in the kitchen for a while and keep an eye on her. Dean did think it could be arthritis, which was a thought of mine, but we both came to the conclusion it was unlikely as the metacam made no difference at all.

Am going to try to feed her some treats separately to get some more weight on her. She loves carrots. I've not tried her on oats but I know my other underweight buns liked their oats. Any other ideas for food that isn't horribly unhealthy that I can use to build her up a bit?

Blood tests still aren't back but Fran has definitely lost more weight and was slightly wet underneath again. I was hoping to visit Mrs B on Wed/Thurs as my previous visit was cancelled due to the snow, but I can't leave Fran like this. Fortunately, Mrs B is being incredibly understanding about my uncertainty.

Does EC result in weight loss? She is eating well and seems bright in herself. Dean said the ultrasound should have shown up any tumour but I can't think what else the problem could be. Now she is underweight I would be scared to put her under a GA.

Zippy started eating less over the weekend. Refused spinach and just as I was starting to panic ate some coriander I put down in desperation. He ate pellets this morning but isn't enthusiastic about food so I may take him to the vet too just to reassure myself nothing is wrong. He hasn't lost any weight, but put some on as he is not having the exercise he used to have when they were outside.

I used to have eleven bunnies and now only have three, the others have all passed to Rainbow Bridge. I am starting to feel a Very Bad Bunny Owner as part from my lovely old Dylan, none of my buns have lived to be elderly - although they have all been rescue so I haven't known all their ages when I adopted them.

Vibes for Fran - and Zippy - would be appreciated. Hopefully, Dean can chase up the blood test results.

Rhianna said:

Blood tests still aren't back but Fran has definitely lost more weight and was slightly wet underneath again. I was hoping to visit Mrs B on Wed/Thurs as my previous visit was cancelled due to the snow, but I can't leave Fran like this. Fortunately, Mrs B is being incredibly understanding about my uncertainty.

Does EC result in weight loss? She is eating well and seems bright in herself. Dean said the ultrasound should have shown up any tumour but I can't think what else the problem could be. Now she is underweight I would be scared to put her under a GA.

Zippy started eating less over the weekend. Refused spinach and just as I was starting to panic ate some coriander I put down in desperation. He ate pellets this morning but isn't enthusiastic about food so I may take him to the vet too just to reassure myself nothing is wrong. He hasn't lost any weight, but put some on as he is not having the exercise he used to have when they were outside.

I used to have eleven bunnies and now only have three, the others have all passed to Rainbow Bridge. I am starting to feel a Very Bad Bunny Owner as part from my lovely old Dylan, none of my buns have lived to be elderly - although they have all been rescue so I haven't known all their ages when I adopted them.

Vibes for Fran - and Zippy - would be appreciated. Hopefully, Dean can chase up the blood test results.

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EC can cause weight loss, even if the Rabbit is still eating. As can several other health problems. Hopefully the blood test results will shed some light on what is wrong.

I think it would be a good idea to get Zippy checked over by the Vet too. Sending vibes for both of them xx

Jack's-Jane said:

EC can cause weight loss, even if the Rabbit is still eating. As can several other health problems. Hopefully the blood test results will shed some light on what is wrong.

I think it would be a good idea to get Zippy checked over by the Vet too. Sending vibes for both of them xx

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Thanks, Jane. Fran has already had a blood test which came back completely normal. I think this one is just for EC. Yes, I will take Zippy too, although I will struggle to carry them both. To get things in proportion I probably wouldn't have noticed Zippy not eating spinach if they had been outside. She ate carrot tops too yesterday as well as hay so I guess she could just not like spinach but I will be happier after she is checked. All three pushed their way to the bowl with their pellets this morning - so quite normal. There is room for all three but they have to stand together and keep shoving each other out of the way for some reason. It's the same when I scatter herbs. They all go for the same one and ignore the others. Weird.

Rhianna said:

There is room for all three but they have to stand together and keep shoving each other out of the way for some reason. It's the same when I scatter herbs. They all go for the same one and ignore the others. Weird.

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My OH says I don't get it because I don't have siblings, but whatever the other one's got is better than anything else. Our two certainly do a good job of nose-wrestling for pellets :roll:

Best wishes for everybun

Sending lots of vibes for both Fran and Zippy.

Loads of vibes for Fran and Zippy x

Thank you all.

Just got back as I popped into Aldi on the way home to get some carrots, basil and spring greens for the buns - and something for me to take to work for my night shift later. Fran hasn't lost weight at all - I made Dean check twice as I was convinced she had become significantly thinner. He was very patient with me and I do believe him . He spent a long time listening to her chest and tummy and feeling her and said everything sounded fine. She did hop a bit more when he put her on the floor - and that looked better too. She is very stained underneath but wasn't wet or sore. He asked about her droppings but as she is in a trio I couldn't be specific but hers are no different from the others and what goes in must come out as she eats loads and Dean said there wasn't any bloating or food stuck in her tummy.

The blood tests still aren't back but he recommended starting her on a nine day course of Panacur, to be extended if the test show she does have EC. He thought she seemed bright and happy (or as happy as anybun is at the vet). She does seem OK in herself but I was convinced she had lost loads and loads of weight. If the tests show she doesn't have EC and I am not happy with her progress he suggested Xrays next but agreed with me that we didn't want to put her under a GA unless it was necessary.

Embarrassingly, it is Violet who wasn't eating the spinach - Violet and Zippy look exactly the same apart from one having slightly longer ears. Dean couldn't be positive but thought that the bun he examined is a girl - both have been neutered so it wouldn't be obvious. Her weight is fine and he could see nothing obviously wrong. I will keep an eye on what she is eating but he didn't seem to think there was any cause for concern and agreed she doesn't need syringe feeding with the amount I have seen her eat.

I think I have become a bit paranoid since they moved inside and am over analysing every little thing. I will go to visit Di - I think the buns may be picking up on my stress and I will ask my neighbour to check that all three rush to the pellet bowl as usual. I will feed them before I go on Wednesday so can check Violet is getting her fair share.

I am so, so relieved as I really thought Fran was very underweight. She is smaller than the other two, but always has been. She hopped around the vet floor looking up at me as if to say 'I don't know what all the fuss is about'.

I am not sure whether to hope the blood tests come back positive for EC or not. Both Fran and Violet are flopped out in the kitchen after telling Zippy about their adventure

Dean has just called. Fran has tested positive for EC - VERY positive. The reading was so high the lab suggested checking again after the 28 days of Panacur have finished. I am not sure how to feel. Furby developed EC as well as having a lot of other problems and his head tilt was awful and he died soon after

But - it is good to know what is wrong with Fran and to have already started to treat it. I have moved the dog crate today so it is no longer in the middle of the kitchen (I kept falling over it). It means I can't get to one of my cupboards but I have been able to cover the rest of the floor with rugs. The big one has to go to the tip as they have soaked it and it is too big for the washing machine.

Going to text Catherine09 to see if I can meet up and chat with her as I know one of her buns has EC.

Any advice would be appreciated. Fran isn't an old bun and I want her quality of life to be as good as possible. Have I done something wrong? I am not sure what causes EC.

No advice, but I'm sorry that Fran has EC. Sending lots of vibes for her. I guess you will need to treat all of your rabbits now.