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Fighting

L

Louise H

Young Bun
Hi all. I've not posted for a few months as all has been well. Sort of.
Some of you may remember I had a problem early last year with my young mini lops breeding. We rehomed 1 of the 3 and kept a male and female which were divid up and paired with mum and dad in separate hutches. All are neutered and have been for 4 months now. We noticed mum had nipped young male at the end of last year and he had a patch on his behind that has now grown back. I was worried at the time but they happily snuggle together and groom each other and both are eating and lay happily in the garden and front lounge together when out so I just thought it was mum putting him in his place. Since early autumn dad and young female have also had their little fights. I've seen them chase in the hutch twice but found fur a couple of times over night. This morning there was quite some fur and dad had had his ear bitten. It's not torn but punctured. However they are now both huddled up together and eating together. How concerned should u be and what should my next steps be? Or is this just a case of females making sure the men know who's boss? I cannot have a 3rd hutch as 2 doubles is enough for any garden so now I'm worried if I have to rehome anyone? Can anyone advise or reasure please? Many Thanks in Advance.
Louise x

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So Dad is with his Daughter and Mum with her Son? Or did you put Mum and Dad back together, which is what I would have done. In the case of Mum and Son it is possible that the boy wants to be dominant now he is older and doesn't want to remain as a baby. Dad and Daughter should get along though so have no idea why they might fall out. Do you get cats etc coming in to the garden which might come up close to the hutch and set off Referred Aggression?
 
tonibun said:
So Dad is with his Daughter and Mum with her Son? Or did you put Mum and Dad back together, which is what I would have done. In the case of Mum and Son it is possible that the boy wants to be dominant now he is older and doesn't want to remain as a baby. Dad and Daughter should get along though so have no idea why they might fall out. Do you get cats etc coming in to the garden which might come up close to the hutch and set off Referred Aggression?
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Mum and dad lived apart from 15 wks but played out together, hence the kits! Dad was neutered while mum and the litter were together and all would be in the garden but dad was kept apart from the family as was advised in case aggression with the youngsters. Dad is so affectionate but mum is a bit nippy when she wants to be. We eventually ley dad out with the young abd he was really good. The occasional leaning over them to let yhem know who was incharge but nothing else. We tried mum and dad back together once mum had been spayed and initially play dates went fine for 3 days. Then a scrap broke out after 20 mins, which we managed to seperate with no damage done. The same happened again the next play date too. It quickly went from eating grass together to trying to mount and then tail chasing. And then a bunny ball fight! I was worried and didn't know if this was normal or too much so again I separated them. It was then I thought maybe it was easier to split the youngsters so parents each had a partner. While they were young it was no problem. I always thought dad and daughter got on best but I would now say it's the other way around! Mum and soon are seen grooming A LOT more then the other 2. Yet dad and daughter are both more approachable and accepting of us fussing them. Mum and son seem more shy.
We used to see cats around here a bit but I've not seen any for some time. They get most excited when its feed time and last yr when dad and daughter had scraps it was when they heard/saw the food coming, one would mount the other and a chase would ensue.

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Louise H said:
Mum and dad lived apart from 15 wks but played out together, hence the kits! Dad was neutered while mum and the litter were together and all would be in the garden but dad was kept apart from the family as was advised in case aggression with the youngsters. Dad is so affectionate but mum is a bit nippy when she wants to be. We eventually ley dad out with the young abd he was really good. The occasional leaning over them to let yhem know who was incharge but nothing else. We tried mum and dad back together once mum had been spayed and initially play dates went fine for 3 days. Then a scrap broke out after 20 mins, which we managed to seperate with no damage done. The same happened again the next play date too. It quickly went from eating grass together to trying to mount and then tail chasing. And then a bunny ball fight! I was worried and didn't know if this was normal or too much so again I separated them. It was then I thought maybe it was easier to split the youngsters so parents each had a partner. While they were young it was no problem. I always thought dad and daughter got on best but I would now say it's the other way around! Mum and soon are seen grooming A LOT more then the other 2. Yet dad and daughter are both more approachable and accepting of us fussing them. Mum and son seem more shy.
We used to see cats around here a bit but I've not seen any for some time. They get most excited when its feed time and last yr when dad and daughter had scraps it was when they heard/saw the food coming, one would mount the other and a chase would ensue.

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Can anyone further advise. Should I be concerned or are they just ranking it out? My Darling Bun Boy is so sweet, I don't want to be putting him in danger with his stroppy daughter!

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I've just brought them both in the house (dad is 13 months now and daughter is 8 months old. Both are neutered and lived together for 5 months.). Luna (Daughter) keeps running away from Onyx (dad) and hiding from her. We've noticed he has another bite on his other ear now. I'm not sure if this has just happened since we've brought them in or while they've been in the hutch this afternoon. It looks like it's wet so it's fairly fresh. He seems very scared. I don't know what to do. I do t want to interfere if this is part of establishing their bond but I want to keep him safe. Should we bring him inside and keep them parted of should we be keeping them together? Ideally I want them to be paired so they have a companion but if he's in danger I'm going to have to rehome Luna. As we had Onyx first and he's such a softie.

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Personally I would separate them if dad appears scared and has an injury - it's difficult to tell when you're not there in person but that seems like the best choice.

How long has daughter been neutered for now?

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daphnephoebe said:
Personally I would separate them if dad appears scared and has an injury - it's difficult to tell when you're not there in person but that seems like the best choice.

How long has daughter been neutered for now?

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4 months. They always seemed the strongest pair. We've put dad in the hutch and we're bringing the indoor cage in to keep Luna in for the night so he's safe. Then what? If they are apart too long we'll ruin whatever bond they have. Although it seems at present there isn't much of a BOND at all!

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Louise H said:
4 months. They always seemed the strongest pair. We've put dad in the hutch and we're bringing the indoor cage in to keep Luna in for the night so he's safe. Then what? If they are apart too long we'll ruin whatever bond they have. Although it seems at present there isn't much of a BOND at all!

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Personally I'd keep them separate for a week or two without any sight or smell of each other then restart the bonding process from scratch. This will give time for your male to heal and if one happens to be slightly under the weather which may be causing the issues they'll hopefully be feeling better come rebonding time.

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daphnephoebe said:
Personally I'd keep them separate for a week or two without any sight or smell of each other then restart the bonding process from scratch. This will give time for your male to heal and if one happens to be slightly under the weather which may be causing the issues they'll hopefully be feeling better come rebonding time.

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Ok. How would you go about rebounding after a week? Short supervised play dates? They would eventually have to go back to the same hutch of paired and it's going to be scented to Onyx, and the internal cage to Luna. As Luna was young when introduced it didn't take much bonding. They just happily went together until recently. So I've never had to bond any before so I don't know what I'm doing.

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Louise H said:
Ok. How would you go about rebounding after a week? Short supervised play dates? They would eventually have to go back to the same hutch of paired and it's going to be scented to Onyx, and the internal cage to Luna. As Luna was young when introduced it didn't take much bonding. They just happily went together until recently. So I've never had to bond any before so I don't know what I'm doing.

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It may be that they never bonded before in that case.
Just because buns are related it doesn't mean they will automatically bond.

The most important thing all borders can agree on is the need for neuteral space for bonding.

While they are separated it'd be worth having a read through the different threads on bonding.

If I get time tomorrow I'll send you a PM with some basic bonding info but as of right now I'm heading off to bed x

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daphnephoebe said:
It may be that they never bonded before in that case.
Just because buns are related it doesn't mean they will automatically bond.

The most important thing all borders can agree on is the need for neuteral space for bonding.

While they are separated it'd be worth having a read through the different threads on bonding.

If I get time tomorrow I'll send you a PM with some basic bonding info but as of right now I'm heading off to bed x

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Great. Thank you. Ignore the reply on the chat room for now! I'll keep all conversation in one place from now on. Here or PM. Thank you so much for your help. Goodnight

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I've read the bonding info forwarded to me and watched some videos on you tube just to give me an idea what to look out for. I ended up ringing a very helpful lay at a rescue centre and she advised that due to her bullying him we should keep them separate but to continually swap them over (hutch to cage for the night) and let them see each other frequently although through the bars until they are more comfortable together. Then to try rebonding them. We've been doing this since my last post on here and Luna is still not too impressed to see him and tries to bite him through the bars, regardless of which side she is of them. He likes to try smelling her but then quickly jumps away as she tries or manages to get him. She's exactly the same if the others go near the cage if it's her turn to come in too. So I don't think it's just him she dislikes! However Onyx and the others don't mind each other if they come into contact through the bars.
The lady at the centre asked for some pics of our set up and advised to give them some more space to live in. So we are leaning and measuring to build a structure in the garden for them all, that's split for the 2 pairs (if rebonding is successful).
Has anyone else had any such experience with this sort of thing? How did it work out?
Regards
Louise

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Louise H said:
I've read the bonding info forwarded to me and watched some videos on you tube just to give me an idea what to look out for. I ended up ringing a very helpful lay at a rescue centre and she advised that due to her bullying him we should keep them separate but to continually swap them over (hutch to cage for the night) and let them see each other frequently although through the bars until they are more comfortable together. Then to try rebonding them. We've been doing this since my last post on here and Luna is still not too impressed to see him and tries to bite him through the bars, regardless of which side she is of them. He likes to try smelling her but then quickly jumps away as she tries or manages to get him. She's exactly the same if the others go near the cage if it's her turn to come in too. So I don't think it's just him she dislikes! However Onyx and the others don't mind each other if they come into contact through the bars.
The lady at the centre asked for some pics of our set up and advised to give them some more space to live in. So we are leaning and measuring to build a structure in the garden for them all, that's split for the 2 pairs (if rebonding is successful).
Has anyone else had any such experience with this sort of thing? How did it work out?
Regards
Louise

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Hi Louise

I'm sorry to hear of your dilemma. I never do the 'swap' type of bonding, or the date one either. I put the rabbits together and observe them. I've now bonded hundreds of pairs and several groups and not had a failure, but perhaps I am just lucky?

Can the Rescue take them both on for you and bond them? Less stressful for you x
 
MightyMax said:
Hi Louise

I'm sorry to hear of your dilemma. I never do the 'swap' type of bonding, or the date one either. I put the rabbits together and observe them. I've now bonded hundreds of pairs and several groups and not had a failure, but perhaps I am just lucky?

Can the Rescue take them both on for you and bond them? Less stressful for you x
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She said that they could but that when they get back to home territory they may start to fight again. She said it's goods that he isn't fighting back as it could get nasty but just means he is getting picked on. The young male is mounting his partner quite a bit too so probably spring fever and it's their first spring. Mum and dad don't seemed bothered at all. I'm wondering about waiting to rebond until after spring!Would this help? I'm outgoing it off as if it's due to lack of space I want them to have the space before rebonding so this isn't the cause again. What do you use to separate them if a fight does ensue? Once you put them together do they them stay together? I realise some nipping etc has to take place and I shouldn't unnecessarily interfere, unless it isheading for a fight. Anything you find helpful other than neutral territory, no litter trays or food bowls or toys but hay and greens.

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Louise H said:
She said that they could but that when they get back to home territory they may start to fight again. She said it's goods that he isn't fighting back as it could get nasty but just means he is getting picked on. The young male is mounting his partner quite a bit too so probably spring fever and it's their first spring. Mum and dad don't seemed bothered at all. I'm wondering about waiting to rebond until after spring!Would this help? I'm outgoing it off as if it's due to lack of space I want them to have the space before rebonding so this isn't the cause again. What do you use to separate them if a fight does ensue? Once you put them together do they them stay together? I realise some nipping etc has to take place and I shouldn't unnecessarily interfere, unless it isheading for a fight. Anything you find helpful other than neutral territory, no litter trays or food bowls or toys but hay and greens.

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Any chance your near West Yorkshire!? I trust you! You've been so helpful over the last year off my journey as a new rabbit mum!!

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