Bladder Sludge, Urine Scalding & Calcium Problems

MightyMax · Jan 31, 2018

anz07 said:
Thank you everyone for your further advice.

Hoover has passed urine but seems to be straining when he is sitting still (which is 99% of the time). He keeps arching his back and pushing on his feet. He's on 1ml of Metacam twice a day, alongside 0.7ml of Sulfatrim (antibiotic) twice a day. He is also having F10 ointment for his sore skin and Isathal (antibiotic eye drops).

I hadn't been informed by the vet that he'd been given Vetergesic/Buprenorphine analgesia but I might ring and check tomorrow if there's still no improvement. He is eating some grass and the occasional small bit of vegetable. Perhaps he'll start to pick up in a couple of days once he's fully settled...that's my hope anyway. I'll keep you all updated. Thanks again! :wave:

You're welcome

I'm glad to her your vet is on the case, and hopefully will sort this out for you. It sounds like he's doing a bit of straining at the moment, possibly because it's painful for him. Poor wee thing!

Jack's-Jane · Feb 1, 2018

anz07 said:
I just spoke with the vet. The good news is that his e cuniculi test has come back all clear so at least we are able to rule that out. The vet is sending me some gabapentin (if I'm spelling that right!) which is a stronger pain killer. I'll be keeping in regular contact with the vet in the coming days and weeks too so hopefully this will help calm my nerves. They have been fantastic, I just wish I could give them better news!

Thank you again everyone

Before you administer the Gabepentin you may want to have another quick chat with the Exotics Vet about any potential side effects of the drug.

Scroll down to page 4 in the following link

http://www.medirabbit.com/Safe_medication/Neurolpetic/gabapent_effects.pdf

It is likely that in the Exotics Vet's professional opinion the risks are outweighed by the benefits. I am in no way Veterinary qualified, but I feel I do need to pass on the information in the above link.

Again I emphasise, my comments are purely those of a concerned Rabbit Care Giver, not a Veterinary Professional xx

anz07 · Feb 1, 2018

Hi all,

Thanks Jack's-Jane for bringing this to my attention. It's a bit concerning as the vet said there were no side effects to the drug...but apparently there could be. I will assess how Hoover is doing tomorrow. He has very marginally improved and did a little more hopping yesterday evening. He passed a lot of sludge/diarrhoea (not sure which of the two it is!) yesterday evening too and has now started to produce small pellets this morning. He is eating the dried leaves and herbs and showing an occasional interest in a bowl of grass that I spray with water. He's certainly still not his normal self but it has been nice to see an improvement, albeit tiny.

I'd rather avoid giving him any more drugs as he is on a lot already and really hates us administering it to him. He is getting increasingly shaky every time we put the cream on him and finds the syringe medication quite traumatic. That said, if he is in pain I don't want him to suffer either...it's a double edged sword!

Jack's-Jane · Feb 1, 2018

anz07 said:
Hi all,

Thanks Jack's-Jane for bringing this to my attention. It's a bit concerning as the vet said there were no side effects to the drug...but apparently there could be. I will assess how Hoover is doing tomorrow. He has very marginally improved and did a little more hopping yesterday evening. He passed a lot of sludge/diarrhoea (not sure which of the two it is!) yesterday evening too and has now started to produce small pellets this morning. He is eating the dried leaves and herbs and showing an occasional interest in a bowl of grass that I spray with water. He's certainly still not his normal self but it has been nice to see an improvement, albeit tiny.

I'd rather avoid giving him any more drugs as he is on a lot already and really hates us administering it to him. He is getting increasingly shaky every time we put the cream on him and finds the syringe medication quite traumatic. That said, if he is in pain I don't want him to suffer either...it's a double edged sword!

I completely understand that. I am in a similar situation myself with one of my Rabbits at the moment. I do hope that Hoover will show some more signs of improvement throughout today. If what he passed yesterday was a lot more sludge then that could be a good sign. Better out than in x

MightyMax · Feb 1, 2018

anz07 said:
Hi all,

Thanks Jack's-Jane for bringing this to my attention. It's a bit concerning as the vet said there were no side effects to the drug...but apparently there could be. I will assess how Hoover is doing tomorrow. He has very marginally improved and did a little more hopping yesterday evening. He passed a lot of sludge/diarrhoea (not sure which of the two it is!) yesterday evening too and has now started to produce small pellets this morning. He is eating the dried leaves and herbs and showing an occasional interest in a bowl of grass that I spray with water. He's certainly still not his normal self but it has been nice to see an improvement, albeit tiny.

I'd rather avoid giving him any more drugs as he is on a lot already and really hates us administering it to him. He is getting increasingly shaky every time we put the cream on him and finds the syringe medication quite traumatic. That said, if he is in pain I don't want him to suffer either...it's a double edged sword!

Hi there.

Regards Gabapentin, I have known many rabbit owners be pleased with the way this works, but as always your vet and your rabbit are the best judges of this.

A member here works at a vet and has used it - please contact me privately if you'd like their details as I'm sure they would be willing to help you

Tamadol is another good pain reliever - did your vet discuss that with you?

Also Maria Kubiak, a very well respected vet, has said this (on the forum here) in the past ....

I use tramadol quite frequently in rabbits, guinea pigs and chinchillas with pain that is not controlled by non-steroidals like metacam, or where NSAIDs can't be used due to other health issues. It works well to control soft tissue pain, less well for bony pain and rarely causes sedation and I've had no adverse reactions. Doses required for pain relief in bunnies are much higher than in cats and dogs.
Gabapentin I use only for nerve-damage related pain so far less frequently but has seemed to give some relief in a number of these cases.

anz07 · Feb 2, 2018

Hello everyone,

Thank you MightyMax for your advice. I will send you a private message as it would be good to get another vet's advice.

Hoover has improved in terms of his personality - he has started to get a bit more back to normal and seems a lot calmer than a few days ago. However, his skin is still incredibly sore which is disappointing - due to this I assume I will have to start using the Gabapentin as the specialist mentioned it being a more powerful drug to help with this. Hoover's toilet habits are also still strange - he started peeing yesterday outside of his cage (which he's never done before) as if he can't control his bladder. He is also now producing a mix of normal pellets and runny pellets.

He seemed a bit keener to hop about this morning so I might let him out in the garden for half an hour or so later. I'm not sure whether this will help or hinder his skin condition though :shock: You can't win with this illness!

MightyMax · Feb 2, 2018

anz07 said:
Hello everyone,

Thank you MightyMax for your advice. I will send you a private message as it would be good to get another vet's advice.

Hoover has improved in terms of his personality - he has started to get a bit more back to normal and seems a lot calmer than a few days ago. However, his skin is still incredibly sore which is disappointing - due to this I assume I will have to start using the Gabapentin as the specialist mentioned it being a more powerful drug to help with this. Hoover's toilet habits are also still strange - he started peeing yesterday outside of his cage (which he's never done before) as if he can't control his bladder. He is also now producing a mix of normal pellets and runny pellets.

He seemed a bit keener to hop about this morning so I might let him out in the garden for half an hour or so later. I'm not sure whether this will help or hinder his skin condition though :shock: You can't win with this illness!

:wave:

Thank you for your PM xx

anz07 · Feb 6, 2018

Hello everyone,

Hoover is doing ok. The Gabapentin definitely helped at first and he was moving around more and seemed to be in less pain. However, a couple of days later, and he's back to being predominantly sedentary.

He ran out of Metacam today and I have to go and buy some more. The vet said about getting a 100ml bottle for £74 as opposed to the smaller 32ml bottle for £28. I'm just concerned as Hoover has been on Metacam for a couple of weeks and it just seems to be ongoing...I wonder if he's becoming increasingly immune to it now. Has anyone else's rabbit been on Metacam for a long period of time?

Hoover's skin is also still very sore around his legs from the urine. I'm feeling pretty fed up today as there is so much time, energy and money going into making him better but I'm not seeing any real improvement.

Jack's-Jane · Feb 6, 2018

anz07 said:
Hello everyone,

Hoover is doing ok. The Gabapentin definitely helped at first and he was moving around more and seemed to be in less pain. However, a couple of days later, and he's back to being predominantly sedentary.

He ran out of Metacam today and I have to go and buy some more. The vet said about getting a 100ml bottle for £74 as opposed to the smaller 32ml bottle for £28. I'm just concerned as Hoover has been on Metacam for a couple of weeks and it just seems to be ongoing...I wonder if he's becoming increasingly immune to it now. Has anyone else's rabbit been on Metacam for a long period of time?

Hoover's skin is also still very sore around his legs from the urine. I'm feeling pretty fed up today as there is so much time, energy and money going into making him better but I'm not seeing any real improvement.

I have had numerous Rabbits who's chronic condition meant that they needed to remain on daily Metacam for months on end. The Vet should be mindful of monitoring this and especially monitoring the Rabbit's renal function. Dose rates need to be carefully considered too and a Rabbit savvy Vet will always do so.

You can buy Metacam online, it is a lot cheaper. You'd need to ask your Vet to supply you with a prescription.

https://www.animeddirect.co.uk/prescriptions/metacam-15mgml-oral-suspension-for-dogs-100ml.html

What topical treatment are you using on Hoover's skin now ? Has his rear end been shaved ?

MightyMax · Feb 6, 2018

anz07 said:
Hello everyone,

Hoover is doing ok. The Gabapentin definitely helped at first and he was moving around more and seemed to be in less pain. However, a couple of days later, and he's back to being predominantly sedentary.

He ran out of Metacam today and I have to go and buy some more. The vet said about getting a 100ml bottle for £74 as opposed to the smaller 32ml bottle for £28. I'm just concerned as Hoover has been on Metacam for a couple of weeks and it just seems to be ongoing...I wonder if he's becoming increasingly immune to it now. Has anyone else's rabbit been on Metacam for a long period of time?

Hoover's skin is also still very sore around his legs from the urine. I'm feeling pretty fed up today as there is so much time, energy and money going into making him better but I'm not seeing any real improvement.

Hi there and thank you for your PM :wave:

It's much easier to pay for Metacam if you ask your vet for a prescription. You will need to pay for that, but balanced against the cost of Metacam, it's well worth it. Make sure your vet puts on the prescription that you can have a repeat as well.

It's advisable to be cautious with Metacam long term, as it can adversely affect renal function.

Regards his skin and the urine, you could either get the vet to shave the area, or wash and dry (and clip the fur close to the skin) and apply one of these creams?

This comes vet recommended

http://www.hyperdrug.co.uk/Derbymed-SCP-Spray-200ml/productinfo/DERBYMSCP/
Derbymed SCP Spray 200ml is a soothing, antiseptic wound spray that removes excessive moisture from open wounds and aids in the management of cuts, sores and proud flesh.

This cream has analgesic (pain killing) properties:

http://www.vetuk.co.uk/veterinary-s.../healx-soother-plus-topical-cream-30ml-p-7773

This has been recommended by someone on here as very good:

https://vitaltouch.com/product/natalia-baby-bottom-butter-60ml/

anz07 · Feb 6, 2018

Hello everyone,

Thank you Jack's-Jane for the Metacam advice - I will get my vet to issue a prescription for this as it will certainly save me a lot of money. Much appreciated! At the moment I am using F10 ointment on Hoover's skin - it is very thick and sticky and I can't say it's been that effective thus far. His rear end hasn't been shaved but he practically baled around his genitals and his legs due to the urine scalding.

Thank you MightyMax for your advice too. I gave Hoover a small bath today (just around the affected area) as he was starting to smell a lot. The vet advised against regular baths but I think today's was very much warranted! I will definitely have a look at the creams you've suggested as an alternative for Hoover. I'm back to the vet on Thursday so will discuss this with him then.

Thank you all for your valuable advice! :wave:

Jack's-Jane · Feb 6, 2018

anz07 said:
Hello everyone,

Thank you Jack's-Jane for the Metacam advice - I will get my vet to issue a prescription for this as it will certainly save me a lot of money. Much appreciated! At the moment I am using F10 ointment on Hoover's skin - it is very thick and sticky and I can't say it's been that effective thus far. His rear end hasn't been shaved but he practically baled around his genitals and his legs due to the urine scalding.

Thank you all for your valuable advice! :wave:

Some Rabbits may be sensitive to F10, in such cases the treatment can exacerbate inflammation. This does not always occur, but it may be worth speaking with the Vet about it.

Perhaps you could ask the Vet about trying one of these instead :

http://www.expresschemist.co.uk/Smi...ure-Vapour-Permeable-Spray-Dressing-40ml.html

http://www.smith-nephew.com/canada/products/advanced-wound-management/flamazine1/

https://www.hyperdrug.co.uk/Leovet-...htCXiyHmFKe3gZGnLmuJDPglkQOoqLEBoCk0EQAvD_BwE

https://fetch.co.uk/yucare-skin-cre...sCA8Z7xCY_hkDF2HwWBoCW2wQAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

MightyMax · Feb 6, 2018

anz07 said:
Hello everyone,

Thank you Jack's-Jane for the Metacam advice - I will get my vet to issue a prescription for this as it will certainly save me a lot of money. Much appreciated! At the moment I am using F10 ointment on Hoover's skin - it is very thick and sticky and I can't say it's been that effective thus far. His rear end hasn't been shaved but he practically baled around his genitals and his legs due to the urine scalding.

Thank you MightyMax for your advice too. I gave Hoover a small bath today (just around the affected area) as he was starting to smell a lot. The vet advised against regular baths but I think today's was very much warranted! I will definitely have a look at the creams you've suggested as an alternative for Hoover. I'm back to the vet on Thursday so will discuss this with him then.

Thank you all for your valuable advice! :wave:

You're welcome

I personally would never use F10, as it's been shown to be quite harsh on a rabbit's delicate skin, so do be careful.

All the creams I mentioned in the links above have been well tried and tested by Forum members (and I can even tell you who they are!!)

Good luck xx

anz07 · Feb 7, 2018

Hello both,

Thank you for your advice - very interesting to hear that the F10 can be quite harsh. I have started using Flamazine from this morning so was pleased to see it on your list Jack's-Jane! Hoover had been prescribed this one before but as the specialist suggested the F10 one I had moved away from the Flamazine. Anyway, will see if this makes any difference over the next few days. Hoover is still being quite sedentary today and isn't keen on any food unless it's a treat (that said, that would be more in line with his normal behaviour!!) I ordered a vet bed for him yesterday too so he has his very own room full of towels, pee mats, a vet bed, hay, foraging, toys, water and lots of love...what more can I do?! I'll keep you updated, thank you again! :wave:

Jack's-Jane · Feb 7, 2018

anz07 said:
Hello both,

Thank you for your advice - very interesting to hear that the F10 can be quite harsh. I have started using Flamazine from this morning so was pleased to see it on your list Jack's-Jane! Hoover had been prescribed this one before but as the specialist suggested the F10 one I had moved away from the Flamazine. Anyway, will see if this makes any difference over the next few days. Hoover is still being quite sedentary today and isn't keen on any food unless it's a treat (that said, that would be more in line with his normal behaviour!!) I ordered a vet bed for him yesterday too so he has his very own room full of towels, pee mats, a vet bed, hay, foraging, toys, water and lots of love...what more can I do?! I'll keep you updated, thank you again! :wave:

Never under estimate how beneficial TLC can be to a poorly Rabbit. In my opinion it's as important as any medication, so you are certainly doing absolutely everything within your power to try to help Hoover.

I hope the Famazine calms things down a bit as far as his sore skin is concerned. I have found it to be very effective for treating sore hocks in some Rabbits xx

MightyMax · Feb 7, 2018

anz07 said:
Hello both,

Thank you for your advice - very interesting to hear that the F10 can be quite harsh. I have started using Flamazine from this morning so was pleased to see it on your list Jack's-Jane! Hoover had been prescribed this one before but as the specialist suggested the F10 one I had moved away from the Flamazine. Anyway, will see if this makes any difference over the next few days. Hoover is still being quite sedentary today and isn't keen on any food unless it's a treat (that said, that would be more in line with his normal behaviour!!) I ordered a vet bed for him yesterday too so he has his very own room full of towels, pee mats, a vet bed, hay, foraging, toys, water and lots of love...what more can I do?! I'll keep you updated, thank you again! :wave:

I think you're doing brilliantly

Vet bed is super stuff. Really useful at keeping a rabbit warm and dry.

Keep going - you'll get there and Hoover is doing great x

Bladder Sludge, Urine Scalding & Calcium Problems

MightyMax

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Jack's-Jane

Wise Old Thumper

anz07

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Jack's-Jane

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MightyMax

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anz07

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MightyMax

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anz07

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Jack's-Jane

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MightyMax

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anz07

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Jack's-Jane

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MightyMax

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anz07

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Jack's-Jane

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