Please help bunny head moving side to side

Well been to vets they said to me that they can't offer anything else so see how she goes or put her to sleep
I then went to a different exotic vets within an hour of seeing them and they said to either have a C.T scan at £550 as could be ear infection, brain lesion or togo on antibiotics aswell as the metacam and panacur or to put to sleep. So I'm just so frustrated as everyone suggested all meds but none of them want to help

rockabillyriri said:

Well been to vets they said to me that they can't offer anything else so see how she goes or put her to sleep [emoji24]
I then went to a different exotic vets within an hour of seeing them and they said to either have a C.T scan at £550 as could be ear infection, brain lesion or togo on antibiotics aswell as the metacam and panacur or to put to sleep. So I'm just so frustrated as everyone suggested all meds but none of them want to help

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I'm so sorry I wouldn't given up just yet and personally I wouldn't bother with a ct scan, if you're treating for the ear infection and ec you've covered all your bases. Imo that's enough - it can take a really long time for them to get through this, get advice on all this on the Facebook group if you aren't already xx

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Graciee said:

I'm so sorry I wouldn't given up just yet and personally I wouldn't bother with a ct scan, if you're treating for the ear infection and ec you've covered all your bases. Imo that's enough - it can take a really long time for them to get through this, get advice on all this on the Facebook group if you aren't already xx

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I agree with all of the above. Of course not every Rabbit can pull through this type of illness, but many do despite having very severe symptoms initially. Of course you are best placed to judge how much Noma can cope with and I am sure that any decisions you make will be made with Norma's best interests as the priority.

EC is not an automatic death sentence, although PTS is always an option if needed.

If it is EC, it is a quite common for the rabbit to go through a rollercoaster of getting a bit better, then getting worse again for a while. If she seems Ok and you can both cope, I would carry on with the Panacur, metacam, and antibiotics if they are offered. Keep her eating, clean and comfortable. See how she is in a week.

If she is unable to walk, you may find it easier to confine her in a smaller, safer space. Some people use rolled up towels to edge the area. Puppy pads are also useful as a floor covering (maybe underneath towels or fleece).

I had a rabbit with severe EC. We took it a few days at a time. I spent months looking after her and syringe feeding. She went from her head being 'fixed' round to her shoulder, to back outside in the run with only a slight head tilt. It took several rounds of panacur and metacam and a lot of persistence. We just measured this week against last to determine if she was improving. Most EC rabbits are not nearly this extreme - but they often start to roll for a while. Have a look at some previous posts on here to see how others have coped.

I would agree with Graciee - she has summed it up nicely.

Jack's-Jane said:

I agree with all of the above. Of course not every Rabbit can pull through this type of illness, but many do despite having very severe symptoms initially. Of course you are best placed to judge how much Noma can cope with and I am sure that any decisions you make will be made with Norma's best interests as the priority.

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This yes.

Just gunna add it could look really terrible but she could still recover, I've been there it's heartbreaking, it takes a long time and it may get worse before it gets better - sending loads of vibes to you both - stay strong xxx

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My vet refused treatment on my little EC bun & said the only option was PTS. We didn't return. She showed an undeniable fight though & we persevered. Without doubt we often questioned whether we were doing right keeping her going but after 6 weeks (she was an extreme case, sounds similar to Shimmers bun) she made slow & steady progress daily & was kinda back to herself at 3 months. A good way in to her recovery she had a relapse but it only lasted a few days. She had a happy few years after, left with a cute minor head tilt & a tendancy to run in circles. I think she knew we had been battling with her - she was always a loving rabbit but became unbelievably affectionate after.

I'm certainly not going to give up on her there is no way I could put her to sleep it makes me feel sick thinking about it.
Admittedly she did look a lot worse in the vets she was just lay on her side with her head corkscrewed but she was ok beforehand I put her in the travel box apart from the wobblyness and rolling she's eating drinking, her poo could be a bit better as she's just starting to get back to eating hay and she's hopping about trying to groom, chew her toys so I know PTS is just a no go it's only been 6 days! I just feel like the vets have death sentence on her!
Im hoping the antibiotics start to help her but I feel very frustrated as you all are so wonderful with your knowledge but they seem to not have much clue or need to help with prescribing anything I tried to get something to help with the dizziness but they didn't want to as there isn't anything licensed so they said! Ugh I will get there!
Does anyone recommend fibreplex? Just thinking it might help boost her fibre whilst she's still gaining her hay amounts up.

Awww I'm glad to hear that your little buns were fighters makes me feel a little more hopeful for my bun!
Just on a mission to make her s secure space whilst she's having these rolling episodes so she's safe.

rockabillyriri said:

I'm certainly not going to give up on her there is no way I could put her to sleep it makes me feel sick thinking about it.
Admittedly she did look a lot worse in the vets she was just lay on her side with her head corkscrewed but she was ok beforehand I put her in the travel box apart from the wobblyness and rolling she's eating drinking, her poo could be a bit better as she's just starting to get back to eating hay and she's hopping about trying to groom, chew her toys so I know PTS is just a no go it's only been 6 days! I just feel like the vets have death sentence on her!
Im hoping the antibiotics start to help her but I feel very frustrated as you all are so wonderful with your knowledge but they seem to not have much clue or need to help with prescribing anything I tried to get something to help with the dizziness but they didn't want to as there isn't anything licensed so they said! Ugh I will get there!
Does anyone recommend fibreplex? Just thinking it might help boost her fibre whilst she's still gaining her hay amounts up.

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One thing I'd suggest doing is videoing Norma when she is at home, eating etc. A Vet will only see her when she's stressed by having travelled and by being in a strange environment. Stress always makes the vestibular symptoms much worse. If the Vet gets to see how Norma copes at home then the Vet will have a better overall idea of the situation xx

My girl luna had ec. The vet put her on trimethaprim and panacur paste. With the occasional relapse we had her for a further two and a half years. She passed away peacefully at home.

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Jack's-Jane said:

One thing I'd suggest doing is videoing Norma when she is at home, eating etc. A Vet will only see her when she's stressed by having travelled and by being in a strange environment. Stress always makes the vestibular symptoms much worse. If the Vet gets to see how Norma copes at home then the Vet will have a better overall idea of the situation xx

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Yes this is a great idea - also travelling and picking her up with make her very dizzy and disorientated which will make things worse xx

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rockabillyriri said:

I'm certainly not going to give up on her there is no way I could put her to sleep it makes me feel sick thinking about it.
Admittedly she did look a lot worse in the vets she was just lay on her side with her head corkscrewed but she was ok beforehand I put her in the travel box apart from the wobblyness and rolling she's eating drinking, her poo could be a bit better as she's just starting to get back to eating hay and she's hopping about trying to groom, chew her toys so I know PTS is just a no go it's only been 6 days! I just feel like the vets have death sentence on her!
Im hoping the antibiotics start to help her but I feel very frustrated as you all are so wonderful with your knowledge but they seem to not have much clue or need to help with prescribing anything I tried to get something to help with the dizziness but they didn't want to as there isn't anything licensed so they said! Ugh I will get there!
Does anyone recommend fibreplex? Just thinking it might help boost her fibre whilst she's still gaining her hay amounts up.

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I think all rabbits fare worse at the vet. Don't forget, the vet only sees a snapshot, whereas you see the whole picture. A vet sometimes thinks of PTS early on because a lot of owners just aren't willing to put in the effort with a rabbit.

That's not you though, and you want to see what progress can be made before you get to that point.

Not all vets know a lot about some conditions - when my little one had a fit I took him to my vet who said she had never seen a rabbit have a fit before and didn't know how to treat. I simply got ahold of all the info I could (a bit like you're doing now) and then designed my own treatment plan which she readily agreed with

Fibreplex is OK but I have found other things like Fibafirst sticks more beneficial in supplying a lot of essential fibre :thumb:

Oh how is she housed Idk if you've already said? If she's rolling look not giving her much space and rolling up big towels as cushioning and so she doesn't hurt herself, may help with the rolling.

Sorry if this has already been covered or you're already doing this xx

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I'm just worried that now I have antibiotics I've been reading the ones I have been given (baytril) doesn't work Oh well worth a try I guess!

That's ok, I think I'll have to go back to syringe feeding her today as she's not wanting to eat which I don't blame after the stressful day she's had. ( hate doing the syringe bit!)

She normally lives with her husbun Ralph but I've made a safe space for her in the same room so they are near each other he goes to see her and I make sure he doesn't stress her out.

rockabillyriri said:

I'm just worried that now I have antibiotics I've been reading the ones I have been given (baytril) doesn't work Oh well worth a try I guess!

That's ok, I think I'll have to go back to syringe feeding her today as she's not wanting to eat which I don't blame after the stressful day she's had. ( hate doing the syringe bit!)

She normally lives with her husbun Ralph but I've made a safe space for her in the same room so they are near each other he goes to see her and I make sure he doesn't stress her out.

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Actually I have known rabbits for whom baytril *does* work. It's impossible to know without culturing the bacteria.

You can always add in another if there's no improvement.

I was at the vet tonight (different condition) but I asked for the particular antibiotic I felt would be best and my vet agreed with me and is ordering it for me to pick up tomorrow. You can always suggest

Very true. I've gave her her first lot so hopefully some improvements will eventually appear. I think I'm just overwhelmed by all the information as some people say it worked some say it doesn't! I've given it my other rabbit before for sinus problems and it worked I know it's different but it's worth a go!
Thanks again! x

rockabillyriri said:

Very true. I've gave her her first lot so hopefully some improvements will eventually appear. I think I'm just overwhelmed by all the information as some people say it worked some say it doesn't! I've given it my other rabbit before for sinus problems and it worked I know it's different but it's worth a go!
Thanks again! x

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That can certainly be the case in so many conditions. All any of us can do is try our best to obtain the most appropriate treatment for our Rabbit. You are certainly doing everything withing your power to help Norma.

I would consider asking the Exotics Vet if they would consider adding an injectable antibiotic, eg Depocillin, to the treatment regime. I have had several Rabbits on both Baytril and Depocillin at the same time to treat ear infections. After all if the Vet is already suggesting PTS what is there to loose by trying the 'big gun' antibiotics first .

Our old vet practice who we took Mischa to said that PTS was necessary, I’d literally just told the woman that he was improving at home but all she could see was his head tilt whereas we were seeing improvements in his rolling and his eating. The head tilt was the last thing to go. He was only 1 at the time and he eventually recovered (it took a few months) and he lived until he was 6. Trust your instincts. You can see her all the time, the vet has only seen her after travelling and that is always going to make a dizzy nauseous rabbit feel worse.

This has probably been mentioned but is there a more rabbit savvy vet somewhere you can go to?

ETA, Mischa only had Baytril but it cleared it up, took a while but it does work for some infections. I'd ALWAYS go with Jane's suggestions though so definitely a good idea to ask if she can have an additional abx, at this point it can only help.

rockabillyriri said:

Very true. I've gave her her first lot so hopefully some improvements will eventually appear. I think I'm just overwhelmed by all the information as some people say it worked some say it doesn't! I've given it my other rabbit before for sinus problems and it worked I know it's different but it's worth a go!
Thanks again! x

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I would suggest trying more than one antibiotic at a time, but that means you won't know what's working and what isn't.

I would say, if you have a vet you can trust, try and get a diagnosis and then you can go help for leather with the required treatment. It's a bit overwhelming, but think to yourself to take one day at a time and try not to look at the bigger picture. The bigger picture is sometimes just too difficult to contemplate.

You have my vibes and strength for the coming days/weeks.

We're on day 9 no improvement with the rolling,
she's starting making this weird noise I've only ever heard her make that before when she used to get stressed from being picked up. So I'm guessing she's getting stressed out a lot as she's doing it quite a lot especially when rolling around, she's started nipping she's not normally a nipper. I'm not sure she's trying to tell me it's time to let her go or what I'm really worried that she's in pain or just generally not happy at the moment. I'm still having to syringe feed in the morning and night. She is eating veggies still but no hay and pellets. I'm just not sure I'm doing the right thing for her or if she's just ****** off.