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Thread: Incontinent rabbit - looking for advice

  1. #1

    Default Incontinent rabbit - looking for advice

    Hello everyone,

    Over the last few months we’ve been having lots of test on Poppy to find out why she is incontinent.

    Initially she tested positive for a UTI which we treated but didn’t solve the incontinence problem.

    She’s since had an X-ray, ultrasound, full blood profile including testing for e.cunicili and full culture test on urine extracted when under GA. Everything has come back negative.

    We’ve tried her on 2 types of antibiotics as well as Propalin but nothing has made a difference.

    We think she is partially incontinent as she sometimes knowingly hops in the litter box, lifts her tail and does a wee. But most of the time when she’s asleep or relaxing there will be a puddle underneath her when she moves and when she’s running she also trickles wee as she goes.

    I’ve noticed sometimes she makes a weird burping/air noise when she urinates and doesn’t lift her. Could this mean she’s in pain?

    She’s bonded with Larry, they adore each other and she is very happy, bubbly and seems fine in herself otherwise.

    They are currently in 100sq ft pen in our dining room which is lined with puppy pads that I change over twice a day (spending a fortune on puppy pads), plus 2 litter boxes every other day. The puppy pads help keep her clean, plus we clean her whenever she needs. We stopped laying fleece, towels and vet bed as this was harder to keep her clean and the laundry was too much.

    I’m really looking for advice on looking after an incontinent rabbit. I’m worried they don’t have enough space as Larry used to be free range, but I think this is the maximum we could give them as otherwise the cleaning becomes extensive.

    Are there any other tests we should do? Other medication we can try? Could it actually be behavioural for some reason? Or anyone have advice of housing an incontinent rabbit when their friend isn’t incontinent?

    Any advice appreciated.

    Thanks.




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  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by LarryMolly View Post
    Hello everyone,

    Over the last few months we’ve been having lots of test on Poppy to find out why she is incontinent.

    Initially she tested positive for a UTI which we treated but didn’t solve the incontinence problem.

    She’s since had an X-ray, ultrasound, full blood profile including testing for e.cunicili and full culture test on urine extracted when under GA. Everything has come back negative.

    We’ve tried her on 2 types of antibiotics as well as Propalin but nothing has made a difference.

    We think she is partially incontinent as she sometimes knowingly hops in the litter box, lifts her tail and does a wee. But most of the time when she’s asleep or relaxing there will be a puddle underneath her when she moves and when she’s running she also trickles wee as she goes.

    I’ve noticed sometimes she makes a weird burping/air noise when she urinates and doesn’t lift her. Could this mean she’s in pain?

    She’s bonded with Larry, they adore each other and she is very happy, bubbly and seems fine in herself otherwise.

    They are currently in 100sq ft pen in our dining room which is lined with puppy pads that I change over twice a day (spending a fortune on puppy pads), plus 2 litter boxes every other day. The puppy pads help keep her clean, plus we clean her whenever she needs. We stopped laying fleece, towels and vet bed as this was harder to keep her clean and the laundry was too much.

    I’m really looking for advice on looking after an incontinent rabbit. I’m worried they don’t have enough space as Larry used to be free range, but I think this is the maximum we could give them as otherwise the cleaning becomes extensive.

    Are there any other tests we should do? Other medication we can try? Could it actually be behavioural for some reason? Or anyone have advice of housing an incontinent rabbit when their friend isn’t incontinent?

    Any advice appreciated.

    Thanks.




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    How old is Molly and is she spayed ?

    Has the Vet suggested that it may be a hormonal problem- ie urethral sphincter mechanism incompetence ? I am guess 'yes' as you mention that Propalin has been tried. Whilst that did not help perhaps the Vet may consider prescribing Incurin instead

    http://www.noahcompendium.co.uk/?id=-454853

    https://www.animeddirect.co.uk/incur...er-tablet.html


    Twickenham Veterinary Surgery- A Rabbit Savvy small animal Veterinary Practice in SW London
    https://www.twickenhamvets.com/

    Keep up to date with the RHD2 situation in the UK. This highly respected Facebook page provides accurate and up-to-date information. Both the RWAF and some Rabbit Savvy Vets contribute to the page
    https://www.facebook.com/groups/1744958082388756/

  3. #3

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack's-Jane View Post
    How old is Molly and is she spayed ?

    Has the Vet suggested that it may be a hormonal problem- ie urethral sphincter mechanism incompetence ? I am guess 'yes' as you mention that Propalin has been tried. Whilst that did not help perhaps the Vet may consider prescribing Incurin instead

    http://www.noahcompendium.co.uk/?id=-454853

    https://www.animeddirect.co.uk/incur...er-tablet.html
    Hi Jacks-Jane - She is spayed since approx August last year and she will be between 2-3 years old so we were told.

    The vet told me Propalin could help with muscle control and did actually mention another drug as well although we haven’t tried it. I’ll read those links as ask about the other drug tomorrow. Is it unusual for incontinence medication to not work? I was optimistic about the propalin when the vet said about it but it did nothing.




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  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by LarryMolly View Post
    Hi Jacks-Jane - She is spayed since approx August last year and she will be between 2-3 years old so we were told.

    The vet told me Propalin could help with muscle control and did actually mention another drug as well although we haven’t tried it. I’ll read those links as ask about the other drug tomorrow. Is it unusual for incontinence medication to not work? I was optimistic about the propalin when the vet said about it but it did nothing.




    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    As with USMI in b1tches sometimes one treatment wont work but another may. It can be a case of trial and error really.


    Twickenham Veterinary Surgery- A Rabbit Savvy small animal Veterinary Practice in SW London
    https://www.twickenhamvets.com/

    Keep up to date with the RHD2 situation in the UK. This highly respected Facebook page provides accurate and up-to-date information. Both the RWAF and some Rabbit Savvy Vets contribute to the page
    https://www.facebook.com/groups/1744958082388756/

  5. #5
    Wise Old Thumper MightyMax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LarryMolly View Post
    Hi Jacks-Jane - She is spayed since approx August last year and she will be between 2-3 years old so we were told.

    The vet told me Propalin could help with muscle control and did actually mention another drug as well although we haven’t tried it. I’ll read those links as ask about the other drug tomorrow. Is it unusual for incontinence medication to not work? I was optimistic about the propalin when the vet said about it but it did nothing.




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    Hi there

    I know we've PM'd about Molly and sorry to hear the propalin didn't work. I had a rabbit on it and it worked (to a degree) ...

    I know Jack's-Jane has said that she has had both bucks and does on propalin for incontinence within the last couple of years, and it helped both equally well It's a shame it hasn't worked for Molly.

    So there was no bladder sludge at all to be seen on X-ray?
    Last edited by MightyMax; 12-01-2018 at 09:34 PM.
    Reliable and up to date info on RHD2:
    An extensive and comprehensive guide to all things RHD2 - Please Vaccinate!
    http://forums.rabbitrehome.org.uk/sh...RHD2-July-2018

  6. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by MightyMax View Post
    Hi there

    I know we've PM'd about Molly and sorry to hear the propalin didn't work. I had a rabbit on it and it worked (to a degree) ...

    I know Jack's-Jane has said that she has had both bucks and does on propalin for incontinence within the last couple of years, and it helped both equally well It's a shame it hasn't worked for Molly.

    So there was no bladder sludge at all to be seen on X-ray?
    Hi MightyMax,

    The vet said there was a bit of sludge but nothing of concern, they flushed her bladder anyway apparently.

    The only odd things she said actually, but again, she said they were not of concern, was that her bladder was an odd shape - almost square and there was a slightly white small area in one of her kidneys, vet said it wasn’t of concern because it wasn’t bright white. Maybe we should get another opinion on that.

    They have been thorough but we were hoping for a cure. On the flip side, if nothing can be done then at least we know.




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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by LarryMolly View Post

    The only odd things she said actually, but again, she said they were not of concern, was that her bladder was an odd shape - almost square and there was a slightly white small area in one of her kidneys, vet said it wasn’t of concern because it wasn’t bright white. Maybe we should get another opinion on that.
    Maybe you could flag that up again with the Vet ? He/she sounds to have been very thorough but maybe he/she may want to get a second opinion on the Xray.

    Also, if your Rabbit actually has a bladder deformity then it is possible (although not inevitable) that her incontinence will be chronic. Bladder sludge may also be a condition that recurs so personally I'd want to talk with the Vet about that again too. The Vet may think that it is appropriate to make some dietary adjustments to try to minimise Hypercalciuria

    http://wildpro.twycrosszoo.org/S/00d...riaRabbits.htm

    https://www.harcourt-brown.co.uk/art...t-disease/view

    It may be that the Vet thinks all of the above does not apply to your Rabbit, but just thought I'd offer some suggestions based on my past experience x


    Twickenham Veterinary Surgery- A Rabbit Savvy small animal Veterinary Practice in SW London
    https://www.twickenhamvets.com/

    Keep up to date with the RHD2 situation in the UK. This highly respected Facebook page provides accurate and up-to-date information. Both the RWAF and some Rabbit Savvy Vets contribute to the page
    https://www.facebook.com/groups/1744958082388756/

  8. #8
    Wise Old Thumper MightyMax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LarryMolly View Post
    Hi MightyMax,

    The vet said there was a bit of sludge but nothing of concern, they flushed her bladder anyway apparently.

    The only odd things she said actually, but again, she said they were not of concern, was that her bladder was an odd shape - almost square and there was a slightly white small area in one of her kidneys, vet said it wasn’t of concern because it wasn’t bright white. Maybe we should get another opinion on that.

    They have been thorough but we were hoping for a cure. On the flip side, if nothing can be done then at least we know.




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    Hiya

    I really hope something can be done, as it's a hard problem to live with over time, as you're finding out.

    I am glad the vet flushed the bladder. Bladders can be quite irritable sometimes and if it is an odd shape, then that may make any problem concerning the bladder chronic and likely to continue.

    I know we've talked about this, but remind me, has this just begun over the last few months or has she always been like this?

    Just to be on the safe side, it's worth thinking about a low calcium diet if you haven't already, and I found this sheet that Frances Harcourt Brown gave me very useful:

    https://www.harcourt-brown.co.uk/art...t-disease/view
    Reliable and up to date info on RHD2:
    An extensive and comprehensive guide to all things RHD2 - Please Vaccinate!
    http://forums.rabbitrehome.org.uk/sh...RHD2-July-2018

  9. #9
    Warren Veteran cpayne's Avatar
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    Doughnut was wet for about 6 months as couldn't find out what was wrong with her. One of her problems was slow gut mobility. She was pushing down to toilet but nothing was coming out but urine. She sometimes makes like a pop sound and I know she's urinated. She's on ranitidine permanently as also has acid reflux. She was initially on metaclopramide and she then became dry. I guess you could ask your vets just for a week's worth to see if it improves. Doughnut has tried so many different medicine to find out what worked for her. She had propalin at one stage but it didn't work as he's problem wasn't her bladder.
    I would say get her shaved as when I got doughnut shaved after a while she had little nicks in her skin where the fur was heavy and pulling her skin down. I felt awful
    Good luck
    Last edited by cpayne; 14-01-2018 at 06:13 PM.

  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack's-Jane View Post
    Maybe you could flag that up again with the Vet ? He/she sounds to have been very thorough but maybe he/she may want to get a second opinion on the Xray.

    Also, if your Rabbit actually has a bladder deformity then it is possible (although not inevitable) that her incontinence will be chronic. Bladder sludge may also be a condition that recurs so personally I'd want to talk with the Vet about that again too. The Vet may think that it is appropriate to make some dietary adjustments to try to minimise Hypercalciuria

    http://wildpro.twycrosszoo.org/S/00d...riaRabbits.htm

    https://www.harcourt-brown.co.uk/art...t-disease/view

    It may be that the Vet thinks all of the above does not apply to your Rabbit, but just thought I'd offer some suggestions based on my past experience x
    Thank you Jack’s Jane - I’ll read those links you sent tonight, and will get another opinion on X-rays as well x


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