Kidneys failing, struggling with what to do

My rabbit Vlad has a large kidney stone in one kidney and the vet says the other kidney is not healthy as well. He said removing the kidney with the stone in it would not help. He looks like he is suffering. He does hop around but sometimes he stumbles. He's still eating but not as much and we have to do critical care and subdermal fluids. He's lost about .5 kgs in 2 weeks.

I'm struggling with whether or not to euthanize. He's not so far gone that he's completely lethargic but I'm so conflicted because he looks like he's in pain. The doctor said it would basically be a miracle if he recovers since kidneys can't regenerate. He said the left kidney levels are 3 times normal and the right are 2 times normal. The left is the one with the stone. This all just came on suddenly out of nowhere. His kidney levels happened to be checked a month prior and there only slightly elevated.

We approximate he is around 9 years old but can't be sure since we got him from a shelter and they did not know.

I hate this stuff it's so hard to make a decision. At this point I guess I'm waiting to see if it gets worse or not and giving him more time.

We give him pain meds too but I'm also curious if anyone knows anything else to give that may relieve some of it. You can see him struggling to breathe. The vet said it's not because there's fluid in his lungs but that toxins are flooding his body which really worries me that he's in so much discomfort.

I'm afraid I can't give any advice but I'm sending lots of vibes. I am sure someone will be able to advice soon xx

It's an awful situation you are facing, I have been in similar.

My soul-bunny Artie had kidney stones but by some miracle the other kidney was healthy so we were able to remove the affected kidney, but at the time before deciding to take this route I knew the dilemma I faced. I was told that kidney stone pain is excruciating, one of the worst pains people describe. I saw Artie was in this extreme pain before the surgery, it was unbearable to see. The stone had moved to his ureter at the time of his diagnosis but he'd been 'not right' for a month before that.

Having got through that hurdle nearly two years later I knew he was in kidney failure but was told he 'could go on for another year' before it got too much for him. I lost him 14 weeks later. He died at home. I knew the night before that it was overwhelming him, he had started to have seizures the week before and he was hardly eating. I had made my decision to take him to the vets for his final trip the next day... he died at 6.15 am. One of my greatest regrets in life is that I didn't help him to the bridge a few days earlier. I couldn't decide whether it was a bad patch and he'd rally. I was kidding myself I knew realistically the outcome of his condition, I wish so much I'd acted sooner. His was kidney failure without the addition of pain from the kidney stones. The struggling to breathe issue is probably calcification of the aorta, Artie had this too, he was taking very deep breaths, it haunted me to see it.

I don't know just at what point 'when' is right for your bunny but I promise you with what you are facing you are more likely to regret leaving it too long than believing you are making the decision too early.

Good luck with your decision, it's a huge responsibility. I'd never had an animal PTS at the time I was facing the dilemma with Artie but have done so twice since and they just peacefully drifted off. I am totally at peace with my decision with both of them, I wish I'd had that experience before facing it with Artie, I would have done things differently.

joshw said:

My rabbit Vlad has a large kidney stone in one kidney and the vet says the other kidney is not healthy as well. He said removing the kidney with the stone in it would not help. He looks like he is suffering. He does hop around but sometimes he stumbles. He's still eating but not as much and we have to do critical care and subdermal fluids. He's lost about .5 kgs in 2 weeks.

I'm struggling with whether or not to euthanize. He's not so far gone that he's completely lethargic but I'm so conflicted because he looks like he's in pain. The doctor said it would basically be a miracle if he recovers since kidneys can't regenerate. He said the left kidney levels are 3 times normal and the right are 2 times normal. The left is the one with the stone. This all just came on suddenly out of nowhere. His kidney levels happened to be checked a month prior and there only slightly elevated.

We approximate he is around 9 years old but can't be sure since we got him from a shelter and they did not know.

I hate this stuff it's so hard to make a decision. At this point I guess I'm waiting to see if it gets worse or not and giving him more time.

We give him pain meds too but I'm also curious if anyone knows anything else to give that may relieve some of it. You can see him struggling to breathe. The vet said it's not because there's fluid in his lungs but that toxins are flooding his body which really worries me that he's in so much discomfort.

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Hi Josh and welcome to the Forum

I am sorry to hear about Vlad. This is a very sad situation for you. Whilst Vlad is comfortable with his life with you, he hasn't the worry on his shoulders of the future as you do

I have had several buns with kidney issues, and the main things that have helped have been giving the meds Fortekor. Subcutaneous fluids can be administered once or twice daily to help with hydration, and I do these at home. It's easy and the vet can show you how.

Anabolic steroids can also help to improve appetite and maintain weight and also help with anaemia. You could also ask your vet about erythropoietin injections, which help also for anaemia.

A low calcium diet is usually advised, so cutting out pellets. Although of course this may contribute to further weight loss. I also find that the calcium in water can make bit difference, so worth looking at that too.

Here's a thread by a member of this Forum, and if you search you will find are examples and how members have been helped:

http://forums.rabbitrehome.org.uk/showthread.php?344951-Kidney-failure-in-rabbits


Lastly, more info in case you need it:

http://www.goddardvetgroup.co.uk/pet-factsheets/Factsheets/Otherpets/24_290520.shtml

http://wildpro.twycrosszoo.org/S/00dis/Miscellaneous/ChronicRenalLagomorph.htm#MedicalTreat

http://www.medirabbit.com/EN/Uro_gen_diseases/Mech_diseases/Urolithiasis.htm

http://www.medirabbit.com/EN/Uro_gen_diseases/Stone_reduction/Stone_red.htm

This last link shows how a rabbit was treated, and includes some references to herbs etc. I would advise always checking with your vet before you add in or take anything away from Vlad's diet.

Wishing you and Vlad loads of vibes and happiness together.

What an upsetting situation for you

I was going to suggest an anabolic steroid as well as sub fluids.

Best of luck x

Thank you for all the information. I will discuss steroids with the vet in a few days. The weird thing is he declined literally overnight but has not been declining any further. Since I made this post he's pretty much the same yet the vet said he may pass naturally within a week. It's so confusing.

I have been doing cranberry juice mixed with apple cider vinegar, dandelion root tea and milk thistle (small amounts). I've also been giving microdoses of cbd (with trace amounts of THC). When he gets the cbd he really seems to respond well to it and starts eating. The main problem is he barely eats hay and won't eat pellets at all. He devours parsley and cilantro, though.

The hardest thing to witness is how obviously painful it is when he urinates. Anyway I think I'm going to try the ground pumpkin seeds and oats that was mentioned in that article and run the rest of it by the vet. I'm not even sure how to get half of the stuff listed in that last success article that was posted.

If he starts declining rapidly though we will probably have to show mercy but I'm going to give him a chance for now.

I am sorry Vlad is still in pain, if he is still in pain urinating he could maybe need more metacam - how much is your vet telling you to give ? You may need a stronger painkiller.

joshw said:

Thank you for all the information. I will discuss steroids with the vet in a few days. The weird thing is he declined literally overnight but has not been declining any further. Since I made this post he's pretty much the same yet the vet said he may pass naturally within a week. It's so confusing.

I have been doing cranberry juice mixed with apple cider vinegar, dandelion root tea and milk thistle (small amounts). I've also been giving microdoses of cbd (with trace amounts of THC). When he gets the cbd he really seems to respond well to it and starts eating. The main problem is he barely eats hay and won't eat pellets at all. He devours parsley and cilantro, though.

The hardest thing to witness is how obviously painful it is when he urinates. Anyway I think I'm going to try the ground pumpkin seeds and oats that was mentioned in that article and run the rest of it by the vet. I'm not even sure how to get half of the stuff listed in that last success article that was posted.

If he starts declining rapidly though we will probably have to show mercy but I'm going to give him a chance for now.

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You are trying your best and that's as much as you can do. Kidney failure is a bummer, and sadly rabbits seem to suffer from it.

Did you manage to source any lower calcium water? I use filtered water for my rabbits, and since doing so have never had any sludge or kidney stone issues.

As Nicky says, perhaps talk to the vet about more pain relief. Though some vets are reluctant to give it in higher doses because of it's effect on the kidneys. In your case I would say it's justified to keep him comfortable.

Is he on any antibiotics to help in case there is a urinary tract infection making it painful for him to pee?

Hi, I have no advice to give about the medical side, just that I had to take a hard decision with my bridge bunny Willow, she had a recurring ulcer that eventually led to major teeth problems. I kept her going on various medications for months while she was happily hopping around, at the point where she stopped eating and I could tell she was in so much pain, I accepted the Vets advice and ended her pain. I don't regret those extra months as she responded to treatment at the time, but I also don't regret the decision I had to make at the end. I guess what I'm saying is that it is hard but you'll know what to do either way, you obviously are 'good at this stuff ' as you are taking good care of him so sending positive and understanding vibes to you.

No real advice but sending lots of vibes xx

As MM suggested, is he on antibiotics incase there is an infection in the urinary tract? This could be causing pain, and in some cases it can damage the kidneys.

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