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Bonder disaster

Truffpuff

Mama Doe
So some of you probably saw my previous thread in desperate need of a bonder after my original arrangement couldn’t take us last min.

We wanted a bonder because we thought it would be better to get the “aggressor bun” Luther out of his comfort zone and see Truffle as a friend not like all the bunnies in groups that bullied him as a baby.

So rushed last min to a lady who had a cancellation and she took them both on Tuesday. As soon as we left they were put in a carrier together to drive around the block and three mins after we left she was bitten by Truffle and Truffle was just being aggressive to her and Luther. So she stopped there and decided to wait to try again last night but with a big ish pen and lots of toys for distraction. But due to her work this was postponed till tonight, I have been told that Truffle is not nice to other bunnies and was lunging, grunting and attacking. He hasn’t done this ONCE when we tried at home, he was always the one being attacked and just wanted to get up high away from Luther!
She even tried Truffle with one of her girls and said after he finished eating he tried to attack the female.

Now I have two dilemmas;

1. When I fetch them tomorrow would it be best if we wanted to try something else, for them to go back to how they were the last 3 months living side by side with a divide to get back to some normality? Or keep them apart now and give them a break until our next plan of action?

2. We were thinking of using the only other bonding place who came back to us which we can get in for 4th Dec, because we really weren’t sure about the carrier method I never liked the sound of it.....but this place has bonded males and they all use their own methods. But what if Truffle has “lost it” because he’s away from home? Or could it be the hour journey then going into a carrier just got him wound up? Then is it a good idea to try away again??

Otherwise all we have to try is at home in the tub etc etc but with someone experienced with us to start, then Truffle is home so maybe relaxed and Luther is on the back foot because it’s a new place...

So upset about it all :-(


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Also I’m worried maybe Truffle remembers the last time when Luther made him scream. But he didn’t turn aggressive any previous bite incidents so maybe not?!

Rant over now......promise lol! :p


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I can sympathise with you..... the first bond I did (which was pure luck)was love at first sight and the bond took about a minute!! So when we got Scooby who is an incredibly laid back gentle giant I assumed it would be as easy as before but no!! He started behaving in a way that I didn't recognise at all, growling at her and what not. He made her scream once (which I think frightened him too!) and she is so timid, she is literally scared of her own shadow!!! On the advice of others here I have taken it back and am going much slower, they are now side by side and I have also started to switch their cages now and again. Its such a long process but im sure it will be worth it in the end and I wish you good luck
 
I can sympathise with you..... the first bond I did (which was pure luck)was love at first sight and the bond took about a minute!! So when we got Scooby who is an incredibly laid back gentle giant I assumed it would be as easy as before but no!! He started behaving in a way that I didn't recognise at all, growling at her and what not. He made her scream once (which I think frightened him too!) and she is so timid, she is literally scared of her own shadow!!! On the advice of others here I have taken it back and am going much slower, they are now side by side and I have also started to switch their cages now and again. Its such a long process but im sure it will be worth it in the end and I wish you good luck

Thank you.

Yes see we did start with the gentle approach and they have been in a room with a divide for 3 months or so now, swapping them every few days to stay neutral. But when we tried them on the same side we were just too slow, not good at the signals and Luther being bullied when he was a baby seemed to always attack first ask later. Which is why away from home we thought he’d be less comfortable and see Truffle as an ally.

We have never done anything like this and as a bunny mum it’s so hard to know what’s right. It’s so confusing too that if they hated each other that would attack all the time through the divide surly?!

Good luck with your buns too! :) x


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I don't know.... those bars give them some confidence! The baby female is very timid but in the safety of her cage she is very friendly, wants to say hello and I can stroke her through the cage and they sniff but she runs a mile when that door is open!! Good luck!! x
 
I will be interested to read what experienced bonders respond to this.

If I were in your position I would be quite horrified at your recent experience with the bonder :( For a start I would be very wary about trusting anyone else bonding my rabbits. However, I would be very unhappy at what appears to have happened with your little ones. I would have been firstly suspicious of an experienced bonder needing to use the carrier method. I would not have expected her to have got bitten by Truffle - was she not wearing very thick gloves? I would not have expected her to delay the bonding because of work and not inform you. But what would be the worst for me was that she attempted to put Truffle with one of her does :shock: Why?? I would have thought that this would make a confusing and stressful situation even more so for Truffle.

In my view, if your boys were being exposed to different smells from other rabbits, it was almost certain to fail.

I'm not sure what you should do next, but I send you my very best wishes for a successful outcome.
 
I will be interested to read what experienced bonders respond to this.

If I were in your position I would be quite horrified at your recent experience with the bonder :( For a start I would be very wary about trusting anyone else bonding my rabbits. However, I would be very unhappy at what appears to have happened with your little ones. I would have been firstly suspicious of an experienced bonder needing to use the carrier method. I would not have expected her to have got bitten by Truffle - was she not wearing very thick gloves? I would not have expected her to delay the bonding because of work and not inform you. But what would be the worst for me was that she attempted to put Truffle with one of her does :shock: Why?? I would have thought that this would make a confusing and stressful situation even more so for Truffle.

In my view, if your boys were being exposed to different smells from other rabbits, it was almost certain to fail.

I'm not sure what you should do next, but I send you my very best wishes for a successful outcome.

I couldn't agree more :thumb:
 
I will be interested to read what experienced bonders respond to this.

If I were in your position I would be quite horrified at your recent experience with the bonder :( For a start I would be very wary about trusting anyone else bonding my rabbits. However, I would be very unhappy at what appears to have happened with your little ones. I would have been firstly suspicious of an experienced bonder needing to use the carrier method. I would not have expected her to have got bitten by Truffle - was she not wearing very thick gloves? I would not have expected her to delay the bonding because of work and not inform you. But what would be the worst for me was that she attempted to put Truffle with one of her does :shock: Why?? I would have thought that this would make a confusing and stressful situation even more so for Truffle.

In my view, if your boys were being exposed to different smells from other rabbits, it was almost certain to fail.

I'm not sure what you should do next, but I send you my very best wishes for a successful outcome.

I feel terrible :-(
I did get some alarm bells when it was clear protective hand wear wasn’t worn, even inexperienced as were are, we used oven gloves!

I even text after the first night and said maybe Truffle is upset by the other rabbits smells and she indicated if he’s bad with other rabbits smells it’s probably not going to happen....but we don’t care about other bunnies, and he knows Luther’s smell from living next to him 3 months. There was also cats and a dog, we have two cats but they don’t know what a dog is.

I just wanted them home after the carrier thing, picking them up today. I have set up their room again to be side by side because I thought that would be most like getting back to ‘normal’.

I’m scared how much of our work over the last three months might have set back.
We know Truffle isn’t nasty to anyone :-( even at the vets when they do stuff to him they always say how brave he is!

Thank you guys for the support it makes me feel like I’m not being silly about it all and it’s not be being over sensitive! I have asked the other bonder place to call me today and tell them everything so far and see if they think they can help, or if at home will be better, how long to wait etc etc.


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What a nightmare!
No, you are not being silly about it or being over-sensitive.
I can't really offer any advice about bonding - but wanted to reassure you that we would all feel as you do about that 'bonder'.
 
I don't think they hate one another, it's just what rabbits do. It's natural for boys to fight.

I know you have loads of experience, but do you think this is usually the case? My quad was three bucks and one doe (although they were related) and they were very, very firmly bonded. All three boys took turns in humping all of the others occasionally, but there was absolutely no aggression.

Is it not the case that does are sometimes a problem, as they are so territorial sometimes highly-strung?
 
The only 2 boys I have had living happily together were 2 brothers who never had a disagreement. They were more like male and female. I think having happy boys together is more the exception rather than the rule. Mairwen at Cottontails would agree with this also and she has to have bonded more rabbits than anyone else. Most brothers I have had from being babies have fallen out at around 14 weeks and as Mairwen says there is a strong likelihood of them never getting on once they have fought and I agree.
 
I just got them home. Truffle looks a bit traumatised bless him. Both are hopping around getting familiar with there bedroom again so I have left them to relax a bit.

The lady is adamant that Truffle can never be friends with any bunnies because he hates everyone.
I said could it be because he’s not at home because he never did any of this when we tried.....but she says no because he was eating and flopping it means he wasn’t stressed.

I’m just really not sure about it all and I hope we can get back to where we were because they were friendly through the barrier etc.

I don’t think Mr. Puff is mean he’s never been horrible to anyone.....stroppy definitely but not nasty!

Luther was also put with the ladies female and one he kinda liked but that was it.
Oh and Truffle escaped his cage a few times and ran around the room.

I’m happy to have them back, hopefully they will forgive me soon


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I think this bonder is talking out of her backside & I commend Truffle for giving her a good nip - good boy. How dare she say your bunny is nasty? I'm also flabberghasted she tried them with girls. None of this is your fault, I hope they settle soon.

I'm sure there are many happily bonded boys bun. Mischief & Tinkerbelles mum has managed it several times. There are happy boy twosomes on here I think. I have a few customers with boy bunny pairs (its not that unusual for me to chat to them about our bunnies :lol:)
 
I think this bonder is talking out of her backside & I commend Truffle for giving her a good nip - good boy. How dare she say your bunny is nasty? I'm also flabberghasted she tried them with girls. None of this is your fault, I hope they settle soon.

I'm sure there are many happily bonded boys bun. Mischief & Tinkerbelles mum has managed it several times. There are happy boy twosomes on here I think. I have a few customers with boy bunny pairs (its not that unusual for me to chat to them about our bunnies :lol:)

You guys are really making me feel better, I honestly thought I was just being down about it not working and trying to make excuses, but it sounds like all my hesitation and questions are valid.

Gives me hope that it’s still not 100% a definite not going to happen.

I just don’t know how long it will take for them to get over it all before trying anything else because I know bunnies are quite good at grudges lol!

Thing is if he hated rabbits, well Luther, that much then he would try and kill him through the barrier, or be nasty now I have just put them back in their room (with the divide). But he’s just loafing and throwing all the toys doing his “hulk smash” routine lol.

So many people seem to have bonded boys that aren’t necessarily brothers, I just don’t know what we are doing wrong. Maybe we are trying too fast and 3 months side by side isn’t enough because it’s a harder bond.

I have another bonding place, again an hour away, ringing me hopefully this afternoon so I can explain everything so far and see if they can help (or want to) or if we should leave them much longer and try at home etc.
Thank you for your support joey&boo x


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You're welcome. Don't feel bad about interrogating the life out of your new potential bonders, if they are right for bonding your bunnies they won't mind. Have a list of questions & concerns at the ready. Good luck x
 
You're welcome. Don't feel bad about interrogating the life out of your new potential bonders, if they are right for bonding your bunnies they won't mind. Have a list of questions & concerns at the ready. Good luck x

Haha that’s exactly what I was going to do after my lunch but he caught me off guard before I finished so I didn’t have my prep notes.

I explained everything and he said it’s definitely worth a try from what I said about the boys, and he said it sounds like she didn’t have a clue.

He went through his process saying they start off in a carrier type box for a few hours, but he’s there the whole time and breaks up fights, but instead of giving up straight away they keep going (unless they are obviously trying to kill each other) while also using a pinning technique as dominance until the buns see they don’t get anywhere being aggressive, kind of thing......he explained it much better than me!

Then over a few days their housing gets bigger gradually but someone is there all the time to block aggressive behaviour etc.

He said they can go on a Sunday and started the next morning, or go on a Monday and start straight away because the long car journey can help. But I don’t know what is best.....especially as with the other bonder doing it straight away didn’t end well, although we did chat quite a while and she gave a health check, then more chatting, then started? Again hard to know what’s right.

Thanks :)


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I'm really sorry it hasn't worked out with this bonder [emoji17] I just wanted to echo what others have said that I don't think all hope is lost. It sounds like the last bonder uses a technique that doesn't suit your boys. Plus I have to say I'm not convinced attempting stress bonding when they were already so wound up was the best move. It seems to have just caused them to lash out.

I think I've mentioned this before on a previous thread but I had two boys who were happily bonded despite having an awful fight leaving one with permanent injuries to his ears. I believe they were rebonded by the rescue I got them from. So I don't think it's a lost cause if you have an experienced bonder who really knows what they're doing. The new bonder does sound a lot better.

Good luck. You've tried so hard with the boys I really really hope there will be a happy ending for you all xxx


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Oh I forgot to say, after what happened last time I'd be inclined to take them to the new bonder on Sunday and let them have time to settle before bonding the next day. Just that it sounds like after the last experience they really do get stressed by car journeys and I'd want to give them a bit of time to calm down before starting a bond.


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I'm really sorry it hasn't worked out with this bonder [emoji17] I just wanted to echo what others have said that I don't think all hope is lost. It sounds like the last bonder uses a technique that doesn't suit your boys. Plus I have to say I'm not convinced attempting stress bonding when they were already so wound up was the best move. It seems to have just caused them to lash out.

I think I've mentioned this before on a previous thread but I had two boys who were happily bonded despite having an awful fight leaving one with permanent injuries to his ears. I believe they were rebonded by the rescue I got them from. So I don't think it's a lost cause if you have an experienced bonder who really knows what they're doing. The new bonder does sound a lot better.

Good luck. You've tried so hard with the boys I really really hope there will be a happy ending for you all xxx


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Thank you Scrappys LH. It’s so nice knowing it’s not all lost, the bonder I got to call me today thinks that the 4th Dec should be enough time to get over the last few days but Truffle does like a good old grudge lol.

I’m just a bit apprehensive that although not in a car, it will start again in a carrier.....but I don’t know how else you would start. Maybe it’s the different technique that will make the difference.

Thank you, yes just after I read your first comment I was just thinking that! I know stress can help but it must be very overwhelming for a rabbit like Truffle that is used to getting his way suddenly not even being home and an hour in the car.

He didn’t like our new kittens (now cats) for two months, I had to do positive reinforcement training with Truffle like a dog, now they all love each other.....well did they haven’t seen each other for 3 months now.

Thank you so much, I’m feeling a bit like it’s me just wanting it too badly and I need a reality check :-/ we shall see xx


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