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Bonder disaster

Thank you Scrappys LH. It’s so nice knowing it’s not all lost, the bonder I got to call me today thinks that the 4th Dec should be enough time to get over the last few days but Truffle does like a good old grudge lol.

I’m just a bit apprehensive that although not in a car, it will start again in a carrier.....but I don’t know how else you would start. Maybe it’s the different technique that will make the difference.

Thank you, yes just after I read your first comment I was just thinking that! I know stress can help but it must be very overwhelming for a rabbit like Truffle that is used to getting his way suddenly not even being home and an hour in the car.

He didn’t like our new kittens (now cats) for two months, I had to do positive reinforcement training with Truffle like a dog, now they all love each other.....well did they haven’t seen each other for 3 months now.

Thank you so much, I’m feeling a bit like it’s me just wanting it too badly and I need a reality check :-/ we shall see xx


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I've just got home and read all your messages TP.

What a situation! You can't try any harder than you are doing .. It's really difficult for us to comment, as we haven't seen how your two behave on neutral ground. But from what you've said, this new person trying the bonding sounds more down to earth and therefore (I hope) promising.

So long as this person knows when to draw the line, as bunnies nipping one another goes on surreptitiously sometimes, and beneath all that fur we don't always know how many scratches and bites there may be.

And when I bonded my trio, it was the two boys who gelled within the first 10 minutes, literally, and they were complete strangers. Last night one of my buns went off to the emergency vet by himself, and the other boy was distressed and looking for him. They were inseparable when he returned home :D
 
I've just got home and read all your messages TP.

What a situation! You can't try any harder than you are doing .. It's really difficult for us to comment, as we haven't seen how your two behave on neutral ground. But from what you've said, this new person trying the bonding sounds more down to earth and therefore (I hope) promising.

So long as this person knows when to draw the line, as bunnies nipping one another goes on surreptitiously sometimes, and beneath all that fur we don't always know how many scratches and bites there may be.

And when I bonded my trio, it was the two boys who gelled within the first 10 minutes, literally, and they were complete strangers. Last night one of my buns went off to the emergency vet by himself, and the other boy was distressed and looking for him. They were inseparable when he returned home :D

Oh no I’m sorry to hear about one of your buns being rushed to the vet! I hope they are ok. I know that feeling all to well as you know!

Yes I think it’s hard to get it across but I would never have a way to film etc, I can when they are living side by side, and with the bonder I can only go from what she said. But I felt a very negative vibe start straight after she tried the first time, like she was already thinking it would fail.
Also being so close didn’t seem to work but as I said above maybe that’s due to technique not method etc.

Yes exactly, I know all to well how thin bunnies skin is! He seemed to say that contact would be avoided (biting) but sometimes they do happen, which I understand. I just wonder how long they take to get over things like this week, or the last time we put them together over a month ago and Truffle screamed :-/

I wish your boys could talk to mine and tell them it’s ok to be friends and guys! Lol x


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Oh I forgot to say, after what happened last time I'd be inclined to take them to the new bonder on Sunday and let them have time to settle before bonding the next day. Just that it sounds like after the last experience they really do get stressed by car journeys and I'd want to give them a bit of time to calm down before starting a bond.


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I forgot to ask, do you remember what method the rescue used to bond yours? X


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Oh my that was a long read! [emoji38]

I agree with everyone who has said the female bonder didn't sound like she knew what she was doing. You've done the right thing getting her home. I was anxious reading about her putting them into travel box and driving them around straight away but I didn't want to stress you out too much.

The guy you're talking about sounds much better. He's just got a different technique preferring to get them used to a small area together and then gradually increasing their shared territory together. I hope I'm making sense... it's been a really long day.
The fact he's making sure to say he stays with them is a good sign.

I think letting then settle for a night before bonding may be more beneficial and will allow both to settle.



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I forgot to ask, do you remember what method the rescue used to bond yours? X


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To be honest I don't know. Apparently the original owners tried to bond them when one was unneutered, which led to the inevitable consequences! They were actually in rescue waiting over two years for a home but I don't think it took that long to fix the bond!


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Literally in tears now.

I was making their dinner downstairs and was nearly done, but I heard an almighty scuffle/banging on the barrier so I’m assuming they had a little pop at each other (all stopped as soon as I went up).

Then took their dinners up, Luther tucked in straight away like usual. Truffle isn’t interested at all even apple. He just occasionally hops between his two favourite sitting positions on that side and he just looks shell shocked. Literally a husky of himself and just stars off and with a tiny bit of a jaunty sideways head.

So upset and of course my OH has stock take today and tomorrow so I’m on my own till 9/10pm :-(

I’m so scared he’s going to be beyond trying with now if he’s this upset. Poor Puffy :-(


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How are they behaving now?

So when I went to sit up there again there was a lot of Truffle rushing around with his tail up and both nipping each other’s noses a bit. So I have opened the baby gate to let Truffle out and downstairs to just the living room if he wants just to give him a few hours break from Luther.

But it took 20 mins before he fully made it downstairs and he’s so timid in what is his old territory. It’s like he doesn’t recognise it, which I guess is good if they do eventually bond. He’s mostly staying in his bunny prison upstairs or runs back up after being down a min or two.

“Daddy” is home now and Truffle seemed ok with him, where as he seems scared of me. Hopefully they will settle but it’s feeling just like the first day we ever put them side by side, 3 months ago which isn’t great.

Luther seems pretty normal apart from biting at Truffle more than before.


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I can't add anything except I hope things settle tonight, Ive had really bad bonding fights but all worked out in the end. It's worth it, so hang in there and you have all our understanding and good luck vibes xx
 
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I can't add anything except I hope things settle tonight, Ive had really bad bonding fights but all worked out in the end. It's worth it, so hang in there and you have all our understanding and good luck vibes xx

Thank you I really appreciate the support.

It’s horrible to say but I am finding some comfort in people sharing that their buns have been terrible for fighting but still worked out in the end.

Thank you for your kind words and positive vibes xx


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So all was quiet last night, bit of shuffling and box chucking at 4am but soon went quiet again.

There has been a bit of nipping but seems to be mostly when I’m in there so both bunnies go to the divide being jealous I’m on the opposite side, or when pellets are involved. We normally sprinkle them in the dog box but if anything goes near the middle all hell breaks loose.
So I now sprinkle them at the back of their dog boxes to ease them in to eating together again. Both are initiating nips so I think some of it maybe that the barrier is giving them confidence at the moment.

On some very good advise I have also put a sheet of cardboard in the divide to block part of the area where Truffle tends to jump to, to chill out so he can have a break.

Truffle seems a bit more himself today but not 100% but I’m just happy to see progress. X


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I bought my two bucks from a local pet shop (5 years ago). They fell out just after being neutered. They fought and Frosty just would not leave Snowflake alone.

After coming on here for advice I separated them completely (no sight or smell of each other) for a few weeks then rebonded them. I decided to add in two spayed rescue does, Tessie and Daisy who I had had for a while.

It went really well. I had a bonding pen in my bedroom and they had to be watched a lot. I used piles of hawthorne (for them to eat) and grass as a distraction and even putting my hands on them would calm them (amazingly as they loathe being handled usually). When I eventually put them in their new living space I took their DIRTY litter trays with them so that they wouldnt have to reclaim everything.

This time of year is good for bonding as their hormone levels wont be as high as in the Spring and Summer.

They will soon calm down again. Best of luck. Time and patience (so easy to say I know).
 
I'm glad they seemed more settled over night.
It's also good to see you're able to recognise their triggers and can alter things to help keep it as calm as possible.

Topping up the vibes x

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So all was quiet last night, bit of shuffling and box chucking at 4am but soon went quiet again.

There has been a bit of nipping but seems to be mostly when I’m in there so both bunnies go to the divide being jealous I’m on the opposite side, or when pellets are involved. We normally sprinkle them in the dog box but if anything goes near the middle all hell breaks loose.
So I now sprinkle them at the back of their dog boxes to ease them in to eating together again. Both are initiating nips so I think some of it maybe that the barrier is giving them confidence at the moment.

On some very good advise I have also put a sheet of cardboard in the divide to block part of the area where Truffle tends to jump to, to chill out so he can have a break.

Truffle seems a bit more himself today but not 100% but I’m just happy to see progress. X


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Loads of hugs and vibes for you xxx
 
I bought my two bucks from a local pet shop (5 years ago). They fell out just after being neutered. They fought and Frosty just would not leave Snowflake alone.

After coming on here for advice I separated them completely (no sight or smell of each other) for a few weeks then rebonded them. I decided to add in two spayed rescue does, Tessie and Daisy who I had had for a while.

It went really well. I had a bonding pen in my bedroom and they had to be watched a lot. I used piles of hawthorne (for them to eat) and grass as a distraction and even putting my hands on them would calm them (amazingly as they loathe being handled usually). When I eventually put them in their new living space I took their DIRTY litter trays with them so that they wouldnt have to reclaim everything.

This time of year is good for bonding as their hormone levels wont be as high as in the Spring and Summer.

They will soon calm down again. Best of luck. Time and patience (so easy to say I know).

Thank you, I feel like we need a whole lot of luck at the moment.

Thank you for sharing your experience, it really helps to hear not everyone has had a smooth ride because it makes me feel that we are right and shouldn’t just give up.
It’s hard when even family members say things like “just get rid of Luther” “they are just taking over your life” etc it just upsets me.

I have a feeling that the bonder essentially proved our suspension right and Truffle is more accepting to new things when he’s had long exposure, which is what we did with him and our cats, and I think why he just flew off at the random females he was plopped in with.

I’m glad you managed to make it work in the end and everyone is friends, it must be such a relief! X


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I'm glad they seemed more settled over night.
It's also good to see you're able to recognise their triggers and can alter things to help keep it as calm as possible.

Topping up the vibes x

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Thank you :)

Yes I was pleased I didn’t have to keep jumping out of bed to sort them out, they were pretty quite in the morning when my OH got up early for work.

Yeah it’s better when I leave them, I seem to trigger a lot of running around and Truffle rushing to the divide, but he kind of did that anyway. He still doesn’t seem right but it’s a vast improvement on last night when he looked like he belonged in the end of a war film! X


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Quiet night again last night and this morning.

But when they heard us waking up and again when Sam went in to do the “morning routine” there is still lots of nipping through the bars. Both are as bad as each other, but Luther as soon as he hears Truffle moving somewhere he rushes along to find out where his gone, sometimes to start on him. Luther has a small cut on his lip from one of these nipping sessions but it looks really superficial and he’s eating so I’m not too worried.

I thought they would calm down a bit by now. But I guess we have no idea what they went through. I just hope it’s not gone too far now :-/ x


Also, I don’t know if it’s the right thing to do so please don’t give me a wrist slap, but when I’m in there and the nipping happens I give a short spray with water to the initiator.....it seemed to work I could see after two times of getting Truffle in the rump, he considered biting at Luther again, looked at me and went ‘fine I wont’. Obviously I don’t spray eyes or ears etc.


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Tomorrow morning we are driving the boys an hour to the new bonder who works in an actual centre.

The original lady who was supposed to bond them but unfortunately has to cancel due to personal health reasons, has been very supportive with the issue we went through and encouragingly has heard of the place we are trying next, and they are good things she’s heard.

They asked us to bring their vac cards another thing I thought was strange the last person didn’t ask about.

I’m getting really worried and nervous about it after the way they were when I got them back last time. Praying for a better outcome x


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