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What is this red object on my bun?

The vet just called, Bobby passed away shortly after the injection of the medicine that put him under a GA. He has a heart attack just after. The vet said a senior bun with cancer, his body is weak. Of course, there is also the loss of blood that is somewhat high.

I was afraid this will happen when I notice he can't sit up right with his right leg.

I adopted Bobby in May of 2010. He was about 6 year old at the time. So I look after him for 6 years. He's a great rabbit. And since the surgery back in Nov. 2017, he's not in any pain and the cancer never spread, so his diet is great thru out.

The only small relief is, back in Feb. 5, 2018, after I contacted the regular vet, he send me an assessment on the surgery, which would have been this surgery. And at the time, I rejected it because of the general risk in surgery due ot his age. Now I know I made the right choice. The difference is, he would not have lost all these blood if a surgery were done back in Feb. 2018, but there is no way to know if a heart attack would occur like what happened today, due to his age.

So in a way, I ends up having Bobby for 1 more month this way. Coincidentally, today is Mar. 5, so it would have been exactly 1 more month that he lives longer by.

I want to thank everyone, especially Jane, for your help and kind words.
 
Happy Hopping said:
The vet just called, Bobby passed away shortly after the injection of the medicine that put him under a GA. He has a heart attack just after. The vet said a senior bun with cancer, his body is weak. Of course, there is also the loss of blood that is somewhat high.

I was afraid this will happen when I notice he can't sit up right with his right leg.

I adopted Bobby in May of 2010. He was about 6 year old at the time. So I look after him for 6 years. He's a great rabbit. And since the surgery back in Nov. 2017, he's not in any pain and the cancer never spread, so his diet is great thru out.

The only small relief is, back in Feb. 5, 2018, after I contacted the regular vet, he send me an assessment on the surgery, which would have been this surgery. And at the time, I rejected it because of the general risk in surgery due ot his age. Now I know I made the right choice. The difference is, he would not have lost all these blood if a surgery were done back in Feb. 2018, but there is no way to know if a heart attack would occur like what happened today, due to his age.

So in a way, I ends up having Bobby for 1 more month this way. Coincidentally, today is Mar. 5, so it would have been exactly 1 more month that he lives longer by.

I want to thank everyone, especially Jane, for your help and kind words.
Click to expand...


I am so very sorry to hear this :(
 
I'm sorry to hear this :cry: Sounds like you gave Bobby a fantastic 6 years though, and he lived to a fantastic age!

Take it easy, look after yourself!
 
So here's an update: I just came back from the vet hospital, it looks like that I made the wrong decision back on Feb. 5, 2018. The vet said there is a significant change from Bobby's skin on Feb. 5 vs. today. He said that should the surgery were done back in Feb. 5, he would have a higher chance of making thru the surgery vs. today.

Based on the photos of Feb. 5 vs. today, I do believe that to be true. I can't tell the difference until he explains it. Today, Bobby lost a lot of blood, so once the drug to put him under kicks in, he has the heart attack. Essentially, his death today is on me. I'll live with that decision for the rest of my life.

Back on Feb. 5, the deciding factor that I picked was that Bobby was eating and drinking very healthy, and he's a 12 year old rabbit, if I put him under a GA, he may not make it out alive. Not to mention w/o chemo, the tumor will come back. So I figure that since he's healthy, I don't want to risk it.

My regular vet, back in Dec. 2017, has told me that he has a lot of senior buns went thru the surgery just fine, and that his "loss patient status" on surgery is only 8 rabbits in the past so many years. Now I lost my prevous bun Bernie to this vet, but I do believe what he said.

On Feb. 23 (10 days ago), I marked down on the calendar that there is 2 small tumor surfaced on that spot, they are small mosquito bite size. So it looks like the tumor has permanently surface in a light manner. Now it is clear that is the final stage of this cancer attacking the skin area.

I'm igorant in that regards. All these time, since chemo is not an option, I've been trying to use alternative cure (Blackberry mix w/ acaiberry juice), and hope that will contain the cancer in that area and kill the tumor. This method did work very nicely with Goofball back in 2007, when I wrote a thread on her at RU.

So while the cancer cell is contained at that spot, I didn't know the fibroscarma can damage his skin like that. This is my lack of understanding of this type of cancer. Today, the skin totally rupture as a results, that's why it falls apart like that.

Of course, if he did do that surgery on Feb. 5, and since there would not have this loss of blood like today, and that he made thru the surgery, he would have ?? months left until that tumor grows back again.

The 1st surgery, since the vet doesn't know it's a cancer tumor, there is no margin removed, and the cancer cell come back in 3 weeks (peanut size or so). So Bobby probably would have a few months to say 6 months before we have to do this surgery again.

The kind of thinking will bother me for the rest of my life: 8 years ago, my other bun Bernie had 6 teeth trim, a decision made by the vet. Then 6 year ago (2 year into the teeth trim), he passed away at age 6 on that last teeth trim, cardiac arrest, just like Bobby today. So I said to the vet at the time, that "knowing what we know now, we should have removed the teeth instead of the teeth trim". And he said "I shouldn't go down that road". This is why I decided back in Feb. 2018 not to put a healthy bun, eating and drinking fine, under the table, as he could have die that day. But now it's clear that decision is wrong. So I'll live with this decision for the rest of my life, and when I die and see my bun again, I'll apologize to him.
 
Happy Hopping said:
The vet just called, Bobby passed away shortly after the injection of the medicine that put him under a GA. He has a heart attack just after. The vet said a senior bun with cancer, his body is weak. Of course, there is also the loss of blood that is somewhat high.

I was afraid this will happen when I notice he can't sit up right with his right leg.

I adopted Bobby in May of 2010. He was about 6 year old at the time. So I look after him for 6 years. He's a great rabbit. And since the surgery back in Nov. 2017, he's not in any pain and the cancer never spread, so his diet is great thru out.

The only small relief is, back in Feb. 5, 2018, after I contacted the regular vet, he send me an assessment on the surgery, which would have been this surgery. And at the time, I rejected it because of the general risk in surgery due ot his age. Now I know I made the right choice. The difference is, he would not have lost all these blood if a surgery were done back in Feb. 2018, but there is no way to know if a heart attack would occur like what happened today, due to his age.

So in a way, I ends up having Bobby for 1 more month this way. Coincidentally, today is Mar. 5, so it would have been exactly 1 more month that he lives longer by.

I want to thank everyone, especially Jane, for your help and kind words.
Click to expand...

Oh Jason I am so very sorry :cry: You and the Vet did everything possible to try to help Bobby, but I think that his body was just too tired. He is at peace now

RIP Bobby Bunny, you will never be forgotten xx
 
Happy Hopping said:
So here's an update: I just came back from the vet hospital, it looks like that I made the wrong decision back on Feb. 5, 2018. The vet said there is a significant change from Bobby's skin on Feb. 5 vs. today. He said that should the surgery were done back in Feb. 5, he would have a higher chance of making thru the surgery vs. today.

Based on the photos of Feb. 5 vs. today, I do believe that to be true. I can't tell the difference until he explains it. Today, Bobby lost a lot of blood, so once the drug to put him under kicks in, he has the heart attack. Essentially, his death today is on me. I'll live with that decision for the rest of my life.

Back on Feb. 5, the deciding factor that I picked was that Bobby was eating and drinking very healthy, and he's a 12 year old rabbit, if I put him under a GA, he may not make it out alive. Not to mention w/o chemo, the tumor will come back. So I figure that since he's healthy, I don't want to risk it.

My regular vet, back in Dec. 2017, has told me that he has a lot of senior buns went thru the surgery just fine, and that his "loss patient status" on surgery is only 8 rabbits in the past so many years. Now I lost my prevous bun Bernie to this vet, but I do believe what he said.

On Feb. 23 (10 days ago), I marked down on the calendar that there is 2 small tumor surfaced on that spot, they are small mosquito bite size. So it looks like the tumor has permanently surface in a light manner. Now it is clear that is the final stage of this cancer attacking the skin area.

I'm igorant in that regards. All these time, since chemo is not an option, I've been trying to use alternative cure (Blackberry mix w/ acaiberry juice), and hope that will contain the cancer in that area and kill the tumor. This method did work very nicely with Goofball back in 2007, when I wrote a thread on her at RU.

So while the cancer cell is contained at that spot, I didn't know the fibroscarma can damage his skin like that. This is my lack of understanding of this type of cancer. Today, the skin totally rupture as a results, that's why it falls apart like that.

Of course, if he did do that surgery on Feb. 5, and since there would not have this loss of blood like today, and that he made thru the surgery, he would have ?? months left until that tumor grows back again.

The 1st surgery, since the vet doesn't know it's a cancer tumor, there is no margin removed, and the cancer cell come back in 3 weeks (peanut size or so). So Bobby probably would have a few months to say 6 months before we have to do this surgery again.

The kind of thinking will bother me for the rest of my life: 8 years ago, my other bun Bernie had 6 teeth trim, a decision made by the vet. Then 6 year ago (2 year into the teeth trim), he passed away at age 6 on that last teeth trim, cardiac arrest, just like Bobby today. So I said to the vet at the time, that "knowing what we know now, we should have removed the teeth instead of the teeth trim". And he said "I shouldn't go down that road". This is why I decided back in Feb. 2018 not to put a healthy bun, eating and drinking fine, under the table, as he could have die that day. But now it's clear that decision is wrong. So I'll live with this decision for the rest of my life, and when I die and see my bun again, I'll apologize to him.
Click to expand...

Blaming ourselves for making what we think was a 'wrong' decision is part of the grief that occurs when we loose a much loved Rabbit. I can spend an eternity torturing myself with all the 'what ifs'. But in reality we can all only do our best and we all make decisions based on what we feel to be in the best interests of the individual Rabbit at any given time.

I wont say dont think that you have anything to apologise to Bobby for. But I do understand that is not how you feel and I respect that. We cannot choose not to feel as we do. At least I cant.

You have always tried to give all the Rabbits who come into your care a good life. I remember Happy your Rex and of course Goofball too :love: Bobby benefitted from all of your dedicated care right to the very end of his life.

The pain of grief that the loss of a Rabbit brings is overwhelming, I know

:cry:

Take care Jason xx
 
Well, I re-think the possible outcome. The 1st surgery was at Nov. 18, and the peanut size satellite tumor forms on Dec. 7, and that's for NOT removing the margin. (we didn't know it's cancer at the time)

If the vet removes the margin, what time frame would it be before it comes back? I have to talk to the main vet when he comes back from vacation. Because even if it's were 3X longer, i.e., 2 mth. & 1 week vs. only 3 weeks, it's not worth it even if the surgery is free. Because there is a certain deg. of risk in surgery.

And since it comes back that fast, I know even by removing the margin, it wouldn't be 6 mth., it would be really lucky if it comes back in 4 mth. If it's 3 mth., then it's kind of some what worth it.

what do you think the likely time frame would be before the satellite tumor resurface?

I'm also surprise the blackberry / acaiberry treatment does not work. With Goofball, I use it as a treatment, and it worked so nicely, w/ major improvement. With Goofball, we had bone cancer, we removed the leg, then we use blackberry as a treatment but cancer has already spread.

With Bobby, the pattern is about the same. We had a tumor, we removed it, but it hasn't spread to other body parts.

So I would think all that anti-oxidant got to shrink that satellite tumor. Yet clearly it does nothing.

And all these times, I was trying to stop the cancer cells from spreading, in which it never did, but I never guess the fibrosarcoma can damage the skin so seriously that the skin falls apart like that.
 
Last edited:
Happy Hopping said:
Well, I re-think the possible outcome. The 1st surgery was at Nov. 18, and the peanut size satellite tumor forms on Dec. 7, and that's for NOT removing the margin. (we didn't know it's cancer at the time)

If the vet removes the margin, what time frame would it be before it comes back? I have to talk to the main vet when he comes back from vacation. Because even if it's were 3X longer, i.e., 2 mth. & 1 week vs. only 3 weeks, it's not worth it even if the surgery is free. Because there is a certain deg. of risk in surgery.

And since it comes back that fast, I know even by removing the margin, it wouldn't be 6 mth., it would be really lucky if it comes back in 4 mth. If it's 3 mth., then it's kind of some what worth it.

what do you think the likely time frame would be before the satellite tumor resurface?

I'm also surprise the blackberry / acaiberry treatment does not work. With Goofball, I use it as a treatment, and it worked so nicely, w/ major improvement. With Goofball, we had bone cancer, we removed the leg, then we use blackberry as a treatment but cancer has already spread.

With Bobby, the pattern is about the same. We had a tumor, we removed it, but it hasn't spread to other body parts.

So I would think all that anti-oxidant got to shrink that satellite tumor. Yet clearly it does nothing.
Click to expand...

It really is impossible to give you an precise time frame for tumour recurrence Jason. How the individual Rabbit's cancer evolves will be unique to the individual Rabbit. Likewise just because you feel that the alternative treatment worked for Goofball, that does not mean it will work for every Rabbit with cancer. Or any other living being with cancer for that matter. Just as with conventional treatment, for some it may be of huge benefit, for others it may have little benefit at all. Genetics plays a part in how any living being responds to a disease process and to any treatment given. Hence in recent times the focus is turning toward genetic specific testing and trials for various cancers and their treatments.

I try to focus on the fact that it is quality of life that is most important. Yes, there may be various treatments/surgery that could extend the life of a Rabbit with a cancer. But IMO extending life is not the be all and end all, it is far more important for any time the Rabbit does have left is as stress and pain free as possible. For myself I would rather have 1 month of good quality life left than 6 months of ongoing stressful, unpleasant and painful treatment. I personally believe a Rabbit would feel that way too.
 
Jack's-Jane said:
It really is impossible to give you an precise time frame for tumour recurrence Jason. How the individual Rabbit's cancer evolves will be unique to the individual Rabbit. Likewise just because you feel that the alternative treatment worked for Goofball, that does not mean it will work for every Rabbit with cancer. Or any other living being with cancer for that matter. Just as with conventional treatment, for some it may be of huge benefit, for others it may have little benefit at all. Genetics plays a part in how any living being responds to a disease process and to any treatment given. Hence in recent times the focus is turning toward genetic specific testing and trials for various cancers and their treatments.

I try to focus on the fact that it is quality of life that is most important. Yes, there may be various treatments/surgery that could extend the life of a Rabbit with a cancer. But IMO extending life is not the be all and end all, it is far more important for any time the Rabbit does have left is as stress and pain free as possible. For myself I would rather have 1 month of good quality life left than 6 months of ongoing stressful, unpleasant and painful treatment. I personally believe a Rabbit would feel that way too.
Click to expand...

I am so very sorry that Bobby didn't make it :cry:

Try to be kind to yourself. Jane's text for me is very relevant for any animal. Cancers very often do not develop according to the text book.
 
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