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I’ve messed up...Update: EC flair up

hoppin_mad

hoppin_mad

Young Bun
Before I go too far, a vet trip is booked for 4pm today!

However I feel awful. I dote on my bun Chester. He’s a superstar bunny that has not had an easy life.

I’ve noticed recently that his eye was looking a bit runny/sticky so I’ve bathed it gently a few times whilst waiting for my vet appointment (it was the soonest one i could get).

This morning whilst bathing his eye a lot of his hair came out to reveal nasty red raw skin underneath. This is obviously a more chronic situation than I originally thought and now I feel sick to my stomach that I’ve left it so long.

I guess I’m looking for reassurance (not that I really deserve it) and maybe an idea what might be wrong with him? Otherwise he’s eating well - no obvious sign of a teeth problem. He has produced a couple of very runny poos this morning which is a bit unusual but otherwise he seems fine in himself.
 
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hoppin_mad said:
Before I go too far, a vet trip is booked for 4pm today!

However I feel awful. I dote on my bun Chester. He’s a superstar bunny that has not had an easy life.

I’ve noticed recently that his eye was looking a bit runny/sticky so I’ve bathed it gently a few times whilst waiting for my vet appointment (it was the soonest one i could get).

This morning whilst bathing his eye a lot of his hair came out to reveal nasty red raw skin underneath. This is obviously a more chronic situation than I originally thought and now I feel sick to my stomach that I’ve left it so long.

I guess I’m looking for reassurance (not that I really deserve it) and maybe an idea what might be wrong with him? Otherwise he’s eating well - no obvious sign of a teeth problem. He has produced a couple of very runny poos this morning which is a bit unusual but otherwise he seems fine in himself.
Click to expand...


Please don't blame yourself, this is very common in rabbits. The fur gets matted together with the discharge and then comes out, and sometimes the skin is sore underneath. You really weren't to know!

It's usually caused by a blocked tear duct. That in turn can be caused by elongated tooth roots, which would show on a dental X-ray. However, there's no treatment for the tooth roots, and the best thing is to keep the tear duct and surrounding tissue clean.

Your vet may flush the tear duct (some vets prefer to do this under anaesthesia, but I have done this at home myself with a placid rabbit) and give some antibiotic eye drops to clear the infection.

Some info here:

http://www.medirabbit.com/EN/Eye_diseases/Differential/Runny_eyes.htm

Hugs xxx
 
hoppin_mad said:
Before I go too far, a vet trip is booked for 4pm today!

However I feel awful. I dote on my bun Chester. He’s a superstar bunny that has not had an easy life.

I’ve noticed recently that his eye was looking a bit runny/sticky so I’ve bathed it gently a few times whilst waiting for my vet appointment (it was the soonest one i could get).

This morning whilst bathing his eye a lot of his hair came out to reveal nasty red raw skin underneath. This is obviously a more chronic situation than I originally thought and now I feel sick to my stomach that I’ve left it so long.

I guess I’m looking for reassurance (not that I really deserve it) and maybe an idea what might be wrong with him? Otherwise he’s eating well - no obvious sign of a teeth problem. He has produced a couple of very runny poos this morning which is a bit unusual but otherwise he seems fine in himself.
Click to expand...

It may be that he has a blocked nasolacrimal duct (tear duct) which has led to the chronic discharge and possibly some infection. Tooth root elongation is one possible cause of a blocked nasolacrimal duct, but not the only one. Tooth root elongation can only be diagnosed from skull radiographs.

The Vet may be able to flush the nasolacrimal duct to clear any plugs of discharge/pus.

http://wildpro.twycrosszoo.org/S/00...iquesRabbit/Nasolacrimal_duct_cannulation.htm

But *if* TRE is the primary cause then the duct may never drain efficiently and the runny eye will require longterm management.

A bit more information on these links :

http://veterinarymedicinejournal.usamv.ro/pdf/vol.LVIII_4/Art16.pdf

http://wildpro.twycrosszoo.org/S/00dis/Miscellaneous/DacrocystitisRabbit.htm

Good luck at the Vets xx
 
Don't be hard on yourself, you're going to the vets and that's all you can do and bathing his eye. I remember when Doughnut was permanently wet and I got her shaved and she had lots of little nicks on the backs of her legs where the fur had pulled the skin. She must have been in so much pain that I should have got her shaved earlier but I'd taken her to so many vets to get her diagnosed and was doing all I could. I still beat myself up about it. I think however much you do for them you always wonder if you could do more, well that's my way of thinking anyway unfortunately, although I'm only harsh on myself!
 
Thank you for your kind words.

We're just back from the vets. Chester has had his fur clipped, his tear duct flushed and we've been given some drops which will hopefully clear things up. It turns out Chester also has mites so we have been given treatment for that too.

I can't help but think I am fighting a losing battle with him. He's an EC bun with hind leg weakness and urinary incontenince. Since this EC diagnosis I have also been battling with his weight. His appetite seemed to increase after the loss of Delilah and I thought he was putting on weight, but the scales today read 1.1kg which is tiny - His healthy weight was 1.6-1.8kg.

Is there anything I can give him to maybe boost his immune system at this time, or anything I can do to try and increase his weight? He is much loved but you wouldn't think it to look at him at the moment :(
 
I would give him alfalfa hay. That's what my specialist recommended when doughnut lost a lot of weight. I gave her a handful a day. She loved it. Some people recommend oats but I just went with what I was told!
She also was on a probiotic and Echinacea to build her immune system up. I got the drops of Echinacea. With the pro biotic I also gave that directly through a syringe or on food as my specialist told me not to dilute it in her water as she wouldn't get enough.
I think critical care may be quite fattening and also full of good nutrients..
I can tell how much you love your little bunny. Have you tried Propalin for urinary incontinence. My specialist gave doughnut that as thought it's great but hers was to do with her pushing down to toilet so it didn't help. When doughnut was really ill I weighed her weekly and I still weigh her to maintain her weight. She's 1.25kg but is a little bunny and that weight is fine for her. She did go up to 1.35kg and I was told she shouldn't go up much more lol
Good luck
 
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hoppin_mad said:
Thank you for your kind words.

We're just back from the vets. Chester has had his fur clipped, his tear duct flushed and we've been given some drops which will hopefully clear things up. It turns out Chester also has mites so we have been given treatment for that too.

I can't help but think I am fighting a losing battle with him. He's an EC bun with hind leg weakness and urinary incontenince. Since this EC diagnosis I have also been battling with his weight. His appetite seemed to increase after the loss of Delilah and I thought he was putting on weight, but the scales today read 1.1kg which is tiny - His healthy weight was 1.6-1.8kg.

Is there anything I can give him to maybe boost his immune system at this time, or anything I can do to try and increase his weight? He is much loved but you wouldn't think it to look at him at the moment :(
Click to expand...


I'm glad you have the eye sorted. I understand how you feel about fighting a losing battle. it's difficult ..

I tend to give echinacea - either drops or break open a capsule and sprinkle on food. There are other herbs that boost the immune system as well, which work better than antibiotics on the whole. A strong immune system is important.

You could try giving some fibafirst sticks, which have good fibre and nutrition and vitamins. They might help keep weight up.

How is his appetite? Is he eating lots but not putting on the weight?
 
MightyMax said:
I'm glad you have the eye sorted. I understand how you feel about fighting a losing battle. it's difficult ..

I tend to give echinacea - either drops or break open a capsule and sprinkle on food. There are other herbs that boost the immune system as well, which work better than antibiotics on the whole. A strong immune system is important.

You could try giving some fibafirst sticks, which have good fibre and nutrition and vitamins. They might help keep weight up.

How is his appetite? Is he eating lots but not putting on the weight?
Click to expand...

I would say his appetite is good. His pellets are usually gone before they hit the bowl and he eats any veggies I give him straight away. His hay eating isn't too bad either.

I am reluctant to give him alfalfa hay because of the calcium content but will definitely start with echinacea. It is difficult to strike that balance between increasing his weight whilst not decreasing his interest in hay. He's currently on an egg cup a day of excel pellets so I could maybe up this to 2 and then add in fresh veg + maybe a teaspoon (or tablespoon?) of oats?
 
hoppin_mad said:
I would say his appetite is good. His pellets are usually gone before they hit the bowl and he eats any veggies I give him straight away. His hay eating isn't too bad either.

I am reluctant to give him alfalfa hay because of the calcium content but will definitely start with echinacea. It is difficult to strike that balance between increasing his weight whilst not decreasing his interest in hay. He's currently on an egg cup a day of excel pellets so I could maybe up this to 2 and then add in fresh veg + maybe a teaspoon (or tablespoon?) of oats?
Click to expand...


Fibafirst is 30% hay, so think about that before other things, maybe :)

You could treat him to different hays :

https://www.thehayexperts.co.uk .. Meadow hay, green oat hay - they all have calories :)

A pinch of oats twice a day is good!

One egg cup of pellets is normal - he is a slip of a lad so I wouldn't double up necessarily. Just on the fibre rich stuff..

Bramble leaves and forage too maybe? Apple sticks?
 
Morning,

So Chester has been munching away at fibafirst sticks and various hays/herbs.

Today when I’ve gone in to see him he is very unsteady on his feet, his head is slightly tilted and he keeps falling over. This is clearly a flair up of his EC.

I was going to start him on panacur today but I am unsure if I should carry on with his other treatments. Will try and ring the vet later but I know they won’t have any availability to see us today.

Poor lil’ bun. Just as he gets over one thing something else happens!
 
Ah poor little Chester and poor you it must be disheartening. I don't know anything about EC so can't really advise but starting on the panacur won't do him any harm. Hopefully you can speak to the vets to advise, normally at my vets the receptionist will get the message to him and ring me later with advice. Good luck
 
if it is an EC flare up, he will need an anti-inflammatory (from your vet) as well as the Panacur as it will reduce the neurological damage done by the parasite.
 
hoppin_mad said:
Morning,

So Chester has been munching away at fibafirst sticks and various hays/herbs.

Today when I’ve gone in to see him he is very unsteady on his feet, his head is slightly tilted and he keeps falling over. This is clearly a flair up of his EC.

I was going to start him on panacur today but I am unsure if I should carry on with his other treatments. Will try and ring the vet later but I know they won’t have any availability to see us today.

Poor lil’ bun. Just as he gets over one thing something else happens!
Click to expand...


Can you remind me, has he finished his 28 day course of Panacur?

If so, it shouldn't flare up and get worse .. You could be looking at ear symptoms?
 
MightyMax said:
Can you remind me, has he finished his 28 day course of Panacur?

If so, it shouldn't flare up and get worse .. You could be looking at ear symptoms?
Click to expand...

Maybe I’ve misunderstood. I was under the impression that he could get ‘flare ups’ of his symptoms at times of stress or when his immune system is suppressed. His last treatment of panacur was about a year ago when his hind end went weak again.

I guess it could be an ear problem. Have requested a call back from the vet.
 
hoppin_mad said:
Maybe I’ve misunderstood. I was under the impression that he could get ‘flare ups’ of his symptoms at times of stress or when his immune system is suppressed. His last treatment of panacur was about a year ago when his hind end went weak again.

I guess it could be an ear problem. Have requested a call back from the vet.
Click to expand...

You haven't, it is possible for some dormant EC spores to remain in the bloodstream even after a course of Fenbendazole treatment.As you correctly state, clinical symptoms of EC can recur at times of stress.

http://wildpro.twycrosszoo.org/S/00dis/Parasitic/Encephalitozoonosis.htm

Symptoms of a middle ear infection can be similar to those of EC and so in the absence of a definitive diagnosis many Vets will cover for both conditions and treat with antibiotics aswell as Fenbendazole and a NSAID such as Metacam.

I hope the Vet returns your call soon xx
 
hoppin_mad said:
Maybe I’ve misunderstood. I was under the impression that he could get ‘flare ups’ of his symptoms at times of stress or when his immune system is suppressed. His last treatment of panacur was about a year ago when his hind end went weak again.

I guess it could be an ear problem. Have requested a call back from the vet.
Click to expand...


No you've not misunderstood!

E.C. is a very difficult one to get to grips with, and no-one's really sure what the effect in rabbits long term is. I thought he had just finished a course of Panacur so was surprised to find it affecting him again so soon.

A middle ear infection can display symptoms similar to those of E.C. so it's a good idea to have a vet pronounce on what they think the issue is. Metacam is indicated for both conditions, both for possible pain and also as an anti-inflammatory to mitigate E.C. spores that erupt and can cause problems in brain, kidneys etc ..

If an inner ear infection is suspected, antibiotic cover would usually be given, and there’s some info here:

**please note there are some very graphic images on this link**
http://www.exoticpetmedicine.com/article/S1557-5063(16)30173-2/pdf

http://www.veterinarywebinars.com/m...oads/2016/03/Study_Notes_Ear_Nose_Rabbits.pdf
 
cpayne said:
Did the vets call you back? I hope your little one is in good form today.
Click to expand...


Yeah she called back that day. She agrees with me that it sounds like EC particularly with his history. She’s given me liquid panacur (he’s too little for the paste!) and Meloxaid and advised to call again if he deteriorates.

Things look pretty stable at the moment - he’s a little soldier!
 
Struggling today :cry:

I’ve just spent the last 30 minutes cleaning up Chester’s soiled back end. It seems he can’t turn round any more to eat his caecotrophes.

He just looks so sad - lying in his litter tray and not really moving much. I’m going to take him to the vets for advice on his management this week but I can’t help but think this is the beginning of the end.

Pointless post really. Just needed to get it off my chest.
 
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