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Don’t know what to do about Alf.

JemimaH

Warren Veteran
I’m gutted. He has been sneezing and had weepy eyes for a while, so today he went in for an anaesthetic, skull x ray and possible dental. I didn’t expect the vet to ring so soon, but she managed to do him after I left and it’s not good news :(

He has severe dental disease, bone erosion and his tooth roots have grown even further. There is an abscess within his skull and the vet could see a lot of pus too. The treatment options are to take his teeth out to access the abscess, put him on penicillin or another oral anti-biotic (begins with a - amythro something or other?).

I don’t think I can take his teeth out. It’s a big procedure and I don’t think I can do that to him.

I am not comfortable injecting penicillin and neither is anyone in my family. Even if I was comfortable with the actual injecting, he’d hate it. He loves fuss but only on his own terms. When I’ve had to force meds into him in the past, involving picking him up and holding him, he’s become withdrawn and begins to run away from me.

I’ve opted to put him on the other anti-biotic (begins with a), which is a real gamble. One of the side effects is fatal diarrhea, so he might react badly to the dose and die. If he doesn’t react badly, the stuff still might not work. We don’t know what we are dealing with because the vet cannot get in to get a swab, so it might be useless against the bug.

He is six years old. He’s had condition after condition right from five weeks old. He’s always been a sickly bunny, really. He’s had a good life, I think, and you can’t tell anything is wrong with him apart from sneezing and a slightly weepy eye. He loves fuss - nose rubs are his favourite - and always runs to the bars to greet us. Am I doing the right thing? Is it kinder on him to just dose him up with pain killers and then let him go with dignity when the time is right? I really don’t feel it’d be fair to take his teeth out, I think injecting him every two days would traumatize him and he’d begin to fear my touch, but instead I will be putting drugs into his system that could a) kill him anyway and b) not help at all.

I don’t know what to do :( I love him so much and want to do the right thing by him. The abscess is, in the vet’s opinion, never going to go away. I can’t reverse his erosion, or solve the tooth root problem. I’ve consented to the second drug but I don’t know if that was the right decision. Help :(
 
What a distressing situation :(

I know you have said that you are not comfortable injecting Penicillin, but I was terribly nervous about doing this before I had to do it. Now, I absolutely would opt for it every time, especially if it were the preferred drug, instead of syringing meds orally. I find it is so much less traumatic for the rabbit. It can be done quickly with the rabbit on the floor, not on your lap, with the rabbit seemingly unaware of anything going on.

I'm not trying to make your decision more difficult, but just wanted to tell you about my experience.

Sending lots of vibes for Alfie.
 
It sounds like he has definitely had a good life so far. I can't give any advice, but I'm sending lots of vibes for him and hugs to you xx
 
I’m gutted. He has been sneezing and had weepy eyes for a while, so today he went in for an anaesthetic, skull x ray and possible dental. I didn’t expect the vet to ring so soon, but she managed to do him after I left and it’s not good news :(

He has severe dental disease, bone erosion and his tooth roots have grown even further. There is an abscess within his skull and the vet could see a lot of pus too. The treatment options are to take his teeth out to access the abscess, put him on penicillin or another oral anti-biotic (begins with a - amythro something or other?).

I don’t think I can take his teeth out. It’s a big procedure and I don’t think I can do that to him.

I am not comfortable injecting penicillin and neither is anyone in my family. Even if I was comfortable with the actual injecting, he’d hate it. He loves fuss but only on his own terms. When I’ve had to force meds into him in the past, involving picking him up and holding him, he’s become withdrawn and begins to run away from me.

I’ve opted to put him on the other anti-biotic (begins with a), which is a real gamble. One of the side effects is fatal diarrhea, so he might react badly to the dose and die. If he doesn’t react badly, the stuff still might not work. We don’t know what we are dealing with because the vet cannot get in to get a swab, so it might be useless against the bug.

He is six years old. He’s had condition after condition right from five weeks old. He’s always been a sickly bunny, really. He’s had a good life, I think, and you can’t tell anything is wrong with him apart from sneezing and a slightly weepy eye. He loves fuss - nose rubs are his favourite - and always runs to the bars to greet us. Am I doing the right thing? Is it kinder on him to just dose him up with pain killers and then let him go with dignity when the time is right? I really don’t feel it’d be fair to take his teeth out, I think injecting him every two days would traumatize him and he’d begin to fear my touch, but instead I will be putting drugs into his system that could a) kill him anyway and b) not help at all.

I don’t know what to do :( I love him so much and want to do the right thing by him. The abscess is, in the vet’s opinion, never going to go away. I can’t reverse his erosion, or solve the tooth root problem. I’ve consented to the second drug but I don’t know if that was the right decision. Help :(

Oh gosh poor wee Alf :cry:

I completely agree with your decision not to opt for surgery in Alf's case. I think giving the Azithromycin a go is a good idea. Whilst it is unlikely to cure such an advanced infection it may reduce the rate at which the disease progresses. Not all Rabbits have a bad reaction to Azithromycin and many Exotics Specialist Vets use it frequently.

I would make sure that Alf has good analgesic cover prescribed too.

I really hope that he can remain happy and comfortable for as long as possible. I know that you will always do what is best for him x
 
I’m gutted. He has been sneezing and had weepy eyes for a while, so today he went in for an anaesthetic, skull x ray and possible dental. I didn’t expect the vet to ring so soon, but she managed to do him after I left and it’s not good news :(

He has severe dental disease, bone erosion and his tooth roots have grown even further. There is an abscess within his skull and the vet could see a lot of pus too. The treatment options are to take his teeth out to access the abscess, put him on penicillin or another oral anti-biotic (begins with a - amythro something or other?).

I don’t think I can take his teeth out. It’s a big procedure and I don’t think I can do that to him.

I am not comfortable injecting penicillin and neither is anyone in my family. Even if I was comfortable with the actual injecting, he’d hate it. He loves fuss but only on his own terms. When I’ve had to force meds into him in the past, involving picking him up and holding him, he’s become withdrawn and begins to run away from me.

I’ve opted to put him on the other anti-biotic (begins with a), which is a real gamble. One of the side effects is fatal diarrhea, so he might react badly to the dose and die. If he doesn’t react badly, the stuff still might not work. We don’t know what we are dealing with because the vet cannot get in to get a swab, so it might be useless against the bug.

He is six years old. He’s had condition after condition right from five weeks old. He’s always been a sickly bunny, really. He’s had a good life, I think, and you can’t tell anything is wrong with him apart from sneezing and a slightly weepy eye. He loves fuss - nose rubs are his favourite - and always runs to the bars to greet us. Am I doing the right thing? Is it kinder on him to just dose him up with pain killers and then let him go with dignity when the time is right? I really don’t feel it’d be fair to take his teeth out, I think injecting him every two days would traumatize him and he’d begin to fear my touch, but instead I will be putting drugs into his system that could a) kill him anyway and b) not help at all.

I don’t know what to do :( I love him so much and want to do the right thing by him. The abscess is, in the vet’s opinion, never going to go away. I can’t reverse his erosion, or solve the tooth root problem. I’ve consented to the second drug but I don’t know if that was the right decision. Help :(


Hi there and so sorry to hear about Alf :(

It seems like a difficult situation for you. The only antibiotic known to actually eradicate dental abscesses is injected penicillin. I do understand that you're not comfortable doing this and I respect that.

I personally wouldn't use Azithromycin as I have had rabbits have bad reactions to it, and have found it not always useful, but this is a decision for you and your vet to make.

I know you will do your very best for Alf, as you have done throughout his life with you x
 
Has Alf ever had injections before? It's possible injections might be less stressful for him, and the vet would show you how to do it while you were there and would get the first injection over with then.

Me and my dad have done injections together on animals a lot of times (although, I've never actually injected myself I don't think - I hold while my dad injects) and it's not actually that hard. Oral is often harder I think. My duck certainly preferred the injections to the oral medicines we also had to give him!

I definitely understand about the stress factor though. Some of my pets, like my rats, I would realllly dread medicating because I think they'd get really upset about it :( so I'm not sure what to suggest. I"m sure you know Alf better than anyone and will know what course to ultimately take.
 
Having been through this with 2 rabbits, I would give the injections a go. It's scary at first, but once you get the hang of them, they are so much easier than oral meds. If you do go down the injection route, get someone to show you how to do it (ie you do it, maybe with something like plain fluids so you can have a few goes) until you are confident on your own. After half a dozen or so, you become much more confident.

Have you seen this 'how to' guide?
http://www.medirabbit.com/Safe_medication/Inject/inject_en.htm
 
Aw how horrible for you both. I have no advice to give you but sending love and vibes to you and Alfie! :(
 
So sorry you are in such a tough situation, how much stress little bunnys can cause.

I think you know what is best for Alf & that you have already made your decision, you know him better than anyone and what both he and you (which is also important) can cope with. Everyone will have an opinion but every rabbit and everybodys ideas of how far they want to go to treat their animal is different.

It sounds to me that the decision you have made has Alf's best interests at heart, he is lucky to have you & I hope the meds you give allow him to have some comfortable & happy time with you.x.
 
Have gone for the penicillin in the end. I decided the stress of having a horrible drug forced into his mouth is pro ably worse than having a novice stab you a few times until she gets the hang of it :lol: the vet did actually point out that the mass could be a tumour and not an abscess, which I hadn’t considered, but the only way to know for sure would be to remove the teeth and see. Poor bunny :( hopefully the penicillin will help. I’m going back on Thursday so a VN can go through the injections again - I did practice with saline but once isn’t enough for me to feel confident. Rabbit skin is so tough!

Hopefully the penicillin won’t react badly with him and will start to make a difference. Fingers crossed for more time with him!
 
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Have gone for the penicillin in the end. I decided the stress of having a horrible drug forced into his mouth is pro ably worse than having a novice stab you a few times until she gets the hang of it :lol: the vet did actually point out that the mass could be a tumour and not an abscess, which I hadn’t considered, but the only way to know for sure would be to remove the teeth and see. Poor bunny :( hopefully the penicillin will help. I’m going back on Thursday so a VN can go through the injections again - I did practice with saline but once isn’t enough for me to feel confident. Rabbit skin is so tough!

Hopefully the penicillin won’t react badly with him and will start to make a difference. Fingers crossed for more time with him!

I have had numerous Rabbits on Penicillin injections and only a couple had problems with it. I am sure that after a bit of practice under the supervision of the VN you will be fine with giving the injections. Most people find the thought of giving them worse than actually doing it !

Sending lots more vibes for Alf xx
 
I have had numerous Rabbits on Penicillin injections and only a couple had problems with it. I am sure that after a bit of practice under the supervision of the VN you will be fine with giving the injections. Most people find the thought of giving them worse than actually doing it !

Sending lots more vibes for Alf xx

Yes, that’s definitely it! I’m not great with needles :lol: I’m sure I’ll get used to it though. Now it’s like a pharmacy in our house - copious needles, sharps bin, penicillin, eye drops, ranitidine and metacam! :roll:
 
Have gone for the penicillin in the end. I decided the stress of having a horrible drug forced into his mouth is pro ably worse than having a novice stab you a few times until she gets the hang of it :lol: the vet did actually point out that the mass could be a tumour and not an abscess, which I hadn’t considered, but the only way to know for sure would be to remove the teeth and see. Poor bunny :( hopefully the penicillin will help. I’m going back on Thursday so a VN can go through the injections again - I did practice with saline but once isn’t enough for me to feel confident. Rabbit skin is so tough!

Hopefully the penicillin won’t react badly with him and will start to make a difference. Fingers crossed for more time with him!


Apparently there can be cases where a rabbit will have an adverse reaction to the Pen injections. However, I have done dozens and dozens over the years for abscesses and I have never once had a case where a rabbit was poorly as a result of injected penicillin.

Good luck. I feel you are making the right choice for Alf :D
 
Yes, that’s definitely it! I’m not great with needles :lol: I’m sure I’ll get used to it though. Now it’s like a pharmacy in our house - copious needles, sharps bin, penicillin, eye drops, ranitidine and metacam! :roll:

I know the feeling !! :lol:
 
Yes, that’s definitely it! I’m not great with needles :lol: I’m sure I’ll get used to it though. Now it’s like a pharmacy in our house - copious needles, sharps bin, penicillin, eye drops, ranitidine and metacam! :roll:


I have to say, having had a poorly bunny recently, every worktop in my kitchen was (and still is) covered with bits and bobs from the rabbit first aid box, and more :D
 
Sorry to hear about Alf. I'm glad you are going to try the Penecillian injections. I had 3 buns on penecillian and it worked well with no side effects. I hated the thought of doing the injection too but it got easier with practice. A few tips, if you are getting the pre filled syringes, shake the needle a few times before you inject to mix up and loosen the penecillian, pull the plunger back a bit first then push it back to the original position - I found that sometimes the penecillian could block the needle so pulling back unblocked any blockage (but remember to return the plunger to the original position prior to injection. I found wetting the buns fur made it easier to see where you are injecting. Lastly, I found giving a raisin after i injected my buns. They were really patient and as soon as the needle was remove they were looking straight away for their raisin or bit of banana so the experience wasn't all bad for them. . Good luck. Alfie is very loved and you are trying your best for him.
 
Thanks for all the advice, everyone :)

Alf is home and seems fine. He's eaten some pellets and had a drink, but has mainly been sleeping :) I'm glad I changed my mind now re. antibiotics. We don't have the pre-filled syringes, we have to draw it up ourselves. The vet did actually shave a bit of fur for us - he's so fluffy, it was hard to see where to stick the needle!

Hopefully by next Wednesday (our review with the vet) I'll see a decrease in his sneezing. His eye issues (weepy, blocked ducts) might not be so easy as one of them flushes fine but the other has always been difficult. When the vet tried today, she couldn't even insert the thing (needle? catheter?) fully and could feel something pushing against it. This something is the mass.

I think the hardest thing, for me, is not having a time-scale. If it is an abscess and the penicillin shrinks it, or even keeps it at bay - great. But if it's a tumour then we don't know how long he will have. And the only way to tell would be to repeat x-rays, which means a GA. A catch-22 situation :(
 
Thanks for all the advice, everyone :)

Alf is home and seems fine. He's eaten some pellets and had a drink, but has mainly been sleeping :) I'm glad I changed my mind now re. antibiotics. We don't have the pre-filled syringes, we have to draw it up ourselves. The vet did actually shave a bit of fur for us - he's so fluffy, it was hard to see where to stick the needle!

Hopefully by next Wednesday (our review with the vet) I'll see a decrease in his sneezing. His eye issues (weepy, blocked ducts) might not be so easy as one of them flushes fine but the other has always been difficult. When the vet tried today, she couldn't even insert the thing (needle? catheter?) fully and could feel something pushing against it. This something is the mass.

I think the hardest thing, for me, is not having a time-scale. If it is an abscess and the penicillin shrinks it, or even keeps it at bay - great. But if it's a tumour then we don't know how long he will have. And the only way to tell would be to repeat x-rays, which means a GA. A catch-22 situation :(

'Canular' :)

http://wildpro.twycrosszoo.org/S/00...iquesRabbit/Nasolacrimal_duct_cannulation.htm

I'm glad he's home and he sounds to be doing OK at the moment. Try not to think about 'how long he will have'. Alf will be living each day as it comes, living 'in the moment'. As long as he is comfortable within himself then as far as he is concerned all is well. He wont know or care about 'how long'. It is harder for us in that respect, if you see what I mean.
 
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'Canular' :)

http://wildpro.twycrosszoo.org/S/00...iquesRabbit/Nasolacrimal_duct_cannulation.htm

I'm glad he's home and he sounds to be doing OK at the moment. Try not to think about 'how long he will have'. Alf will be living each day as it comes, living 'in the moment'. As long as he is comfortable within himself then as far as he is concerned all is well. He wont know or care about 'how long'. It is harder for us in that respect, if you see what I mean.

ha - thank you! I knew there was a word for it, but my brain's all over the place today. I have retreated to bed with a bag of Malteasers :lol:

He is very well in himself, the only issues being a slightly weepy eye and sneezing. But neither seem to bother him particularly. You couldn't really tell there was anything else wrong other than his snuffles and I'm thankful for that :) thanks, Jane x
 
Thanks for all the advice, everyone :)

Alf is home and seems fine. He's eaten some pellets and had a drink, but has mainly been sleeping :) I'm glad I changed my mind now re. antibiotics. We don't have the pre-filled syringes, we have to draw it up ourselves. The vet did actually shave a bit of fur for us - he's so fluffy, it was hard to see where to stick the needle!

Hopefully by next Wednesday (our review with the vet) I'll see a decrease in his sneezing. His eye issues (weepy, blocked ducts) might not be so easy as one of them flushes fine but the other has always been difficult. When the vet tried today, she couldn't even insert the thing (needle? catheter?) fully and could feel something pushing against it. This something is the mass.

I think the hardest thing, for me, is not having a time-scale. If it is an abscess and the penicillin shrinks it, or even keeps it at bay - great. But if it's a tumour then we don't know how long he will have. And the only way to tell would be to repeat x-rays, which means a GA. A catch-22 situation :(


I am glad you are going to draw up the penicillin yourself, it's much easier that way and doesn't get 'stuck' so much :)

I guess you mean the cannula? I see, the mass is just where the tear duct is - poor lad!

It's hard to come to terms with a bunny who may have a limited life expectancy. A bit like living with a human who has a limited life expectancy I guess ... You just have to take each day at a time and enjoy it to the full.

I am sure you will give Alf the very best of care and a wonderful life - he won't even be aware of the possible diagnoses that you have to live with knowing :)
 
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