My rabbits not a boy or a girl! Anyone heard of this before? UPDATED

Hi,

I took my rabbit Trixie to get spayed today to Nine Lives. I've just been told she's not a male but also has no ovaries or uterus either so isn't female either so they couldn't actually do the spaying i was told shes actually a hybrid. She's a French lop and is 6 months old. I'm in a bit of shock at the moment. Anyone know what questions i should ask about her when i call back later or have experience of this themselves? I'm just pleased I took her to a rabbit savvy vet, even though they've not come across this before.

NixNax said:

Hi,

I took my rabbit Trixie to get spayed today to Nine Lives. I've just been told she's not a male but also has no ovaries or uterus either so isn't female either so they couldn't actually do the spaying i was told shes actually a hybrid. She's a French lop and is 6 months old. I'm in a bit of shock at the moment. Anyone know what questions i should ask about her when i call back later or have experience of this themselves? I'm just pleased I took her to a rabbit savvy vet, even though they've not come across this before.

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I think you mean 'Hermaphrodite' rather than 'Hybrid'

http://www.medirabbit.com/EN/Uro_gen_diseases/hermaphrodite.pdf

http://forums.rabbitrehome.org.uk/s...rn-with-no-sex-organs&highlight=hermaphrodite

http://forums.rabbitrehome.org.uk/s...y-Indi-was-not-spayed&highlight=hermaphrodite

http://forums.rabbitrehome.org.uk/s...-news-mid-rabbit-spay&highlight=hermaphrodite

http://forums.rabbitrehome.org.uk/s...she-s-a-hermaphrodite&highlight=hermaphrodite

Funnily enough I said that but they said hybrid. Think they said the wrong thing! I'll look at those links now thanks.

NixNax said:

Hi,

I took my rabbit Trixie to get spayed today to Nine Lives. I've just been told she's not a male but also has no ovaries or uterus either so isn't female either so they couldn't actually do the spaying i was told shes actually a hybrid. She's a French lop and is 6 months old. I'm in a bit of shock at the moment. Anyone know what questions i should ask about her when i call back later or have experience of this themselves? I'm just pleased I took her to a rabbit savvy vet, even though they've not come across this before.

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Hi there NixNax

Not as rare as you might imagine!

There's a thread here about it:

http://forums.rabbitrehome.org.uk/showthread.php?415155-Born-without-a-uterus

And more info here:

http://forums.rabbitrehome.org.uk/s...she-s-a-hermaphrodite&highlight=hermaphrodite

http://www.medirabbit.com/EN/Uro_gen_diseases/hermaphrodite.pdf

Will Nine Lives be able to get some expert advice by consulting an exotics vet, perhaps?

I think they are exotics vets at nine lives but wouldn't be surprised If they did contact someone else too. They do spay rabbits regularly (after being recommended them on here I did ask a lot of questions before booking her in) but the particular vet said they've personally not operated on one before even though they've heard of it. I was in shock when I phoned up about her and told that. If I can pick her up later I'll ask if they don't have any advice could they find out more info for me. Ive started going through those links above and I'm glad ive not been the only one finding out that way. My main concern is her health whatever she may be.

Nine Lives are exotic specialists but I'm sure they will be conversing with other specialists.

How old is she again? It's not possible she's been neutered prior to you getting her?

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daphnephoebe said:

Nine Lives are exotic specialists but I'm sure they will be conversing with other specialists.

How old is she again? It's not possible she's been neutered prior to you getting her?

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She's 6.5 months old. I've had her since she was 8 weeks old and saw her a couple of times before I brought her home. I think they had a good look to check she wasn't a boy after opening her up and def checked she seemed a girl before doing the operation. They said for her breed she's a good size for her age so is growing normally so I don't think she's a different age to what we thought either. I know it might be a silly question but could she still be a girl just without a uterus and ovaries? Her genitals from the outside look female or is she a hermaphrodite because she doesn't have any reproductive organs? I checked she wasn't too young for her breed and they said her age was fine to operate on.

I've heard of them to sometimes be missing their reproductive organs, or they have their uterus and ovaries but no vaginal opening. Ive never personally seen this though.

Normally a hermaphrodite classes as a rabbit (or other species) that has both male and female organs, often both organs work fully so to be missing her female organs I don't imagine she will be a hermaphrodite.

My main concern would be her health for the future. Missing organs may mean some of her other organs arent properly developed. Im sure theyd have had a look while in there but that I imagine will be a wait and see.

I'm sure you've already collected her so I'll be interested to know what they've said.

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NixNax said:

I think they are exotics vets at nine lives but wouldn't be surprised If they did contact someone else too. They do spay rabbits regularly (after being recommended them on here I did ask a lot of questions before booking her in) but the particular vet said they've personally not operated on one before even though they've heard of it. I was in shock when I phoned up about her and told that. If I can pick her up later I'll ask if they don't have any advice could they find out more info for me. Ive started going through those links above and I'm glad ive not been the only one finding out that way. My main concern is her health whatever she may be.

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No you are definitely not alone

There's some info on one of the links I posted about no uterus, or an underdeveloped one:

http://forums.rabbitrehome.org.uk/showthread.php?415155-Born-without-a-uterus

Did you manage to speak with anyone when you picked her up from the surgery?

I picked her up at lunch time today as they like to keep an eye on rabbits after a spay and dosed her up with painkillers and gut stimulates. She's eating and drinking since I've brought her home and seems nearly herself. They answered as much as they could but some of it is a wait and see. If she starts to change her behaviour at a later date then I can take her back and they'll see if any hormones are in her and if anything has started to develop. From what i could understand she had a structure there but it wasnt female or male so theyve left it, thankfully it didn't look like anything bad and from what they could see everything looked normal. From the outside she looks female so they were all shocked. She's getting a check up in a week so I might have more questions then. Now I'm just undecided how soon I should think about a friend for her or wait until she's a bit older in case she does get hormones and change.

NixNax said:

I picked her up at lunch time today as they like to keep an eye on rabbits after a spay and dosed her up with painkillers and gut stimulates. She's eating and drinking since I've brought her home and seems nearly herself. They answered as much as they could but some of it is a wait and see. If she starts to change her behaviour at a later date then I can take her back and they'll see if any hormones are in her and if anything has started to develop. From what i could understand she had a structure there but it wasnt female or male so theyve left it, thankfully it didn't look like anything bad and from what they could see everything looked normal. From the outside she looks female so they were all shocked. She's getting a check up in a week so I might have more questions then. Now I'm just undecided how soon I should think about a friend for her or wait until she's a bit older in case she does get hormones and change.

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Thanks for updating NixNax - what a fascinating and unusual case she is

I'm glad she's recovered well and is strong and healthy in herself.

Regards getting her a friend, she's still quite young, so I guess pondering the best way forward for a month or two won't do any harm?

Yes I bet you may very well have more questions for the vet!

I think if you were to get her a friend, an already neutered male may be the best choice. This way if hormones and organs do develop there would be no chance of a pregnancy if she is a female. And if male you'll have time to react before anything negative happens x

I guess thy can do blood work to check for hormones if she does get behavioural changes.

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Yes I think a neutered male is probably what I'd go for and I'm presuming if anything was to develop in her it would be female so I'm thinking that's probably the best combination for her. She's such a lovable rabbit and is always licking us and is so friendly and laid back, I do hope it's possible to bond her with another rabbit at some point. The vets said they can do a scan and I think they mentioned a blood test but can't remember if they said that or I read online, i know they said they'd do other tests before cutting her open again! I'd have to ask if blood tests would be able to tell me what hormones she's getting if she does get any. Ive been reading online how the reproductive system of a rabbit develops whilst in the womb and just after birth and i think i understand a bit more about what the structure must look like inside her. My husband joked saying we should've got a discount for the spaying as she wasn't actually spayed, i just thought my poor bunny having an operation she didn't actually need. Just glad she seems to be recovering really well, i let her out her cage earlier to scatter feed her pellets and she hopped off, jumped on the dining chair and then onto the dining table, I'm glad she's feeling better but I put her back in her cage straight after as I was worried she'd hurt herself if I kept her out!

I'd discuss the blood tests with them when she goes for a post op check (If she's having one, otherwise see about a phone consultation).
It may be beneficial to have blood test results now as a baseline so if they test in future they can see the level changes.

Sorry it's not an in depth reply... I'm typing on my phone as I walk home.

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daphnephoebe said:

I'd discuss the blood tests with them when she goes for a post op check (If she's having one, otherwise see about a phone consultation).
It may be beneficial to have blood test results now as a baseline so if they test in future they can see the level changes.

Sorry it's not an in depth reply... I'm typing on my phone as I walk home.

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That's a good point actually. I'll mention that to them when I go back next week. Thanks, i hadn't thought of that.

As others have said its not as rare as you think, we've had a couple at the rescue I run.

tabithakat64 said:

As others have said its not as rare as you think, we've had a couple at the rescue I run.

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Did they bond okay with other rabbits? Were they healthy in other ways?

What is going on?

My bunny took a couple of weeks to get back to her old self since her attempted spay. The last couple of weeks she keeps digging and biting at loads of things. She hasn't let me pick her up a lot since her attempted spay but just now she put a hole in my curtain so I quickly picked her up and I swear I felt a testicle, i put my hand between her legs once back on the floor and now i think i can feel 2. Is this even possible, she's nearly 8 months old. There was no sign of testicles when the vet tried to spay her as when they found out she had no uterus, they checked for testicles in case she was a boy! Where could they have been hiding if thats what they are? My husbands not got a lot if experience holding rabbits so my dads going to help me examine her tomorrow afternoon. The vet said she's a hermaphrodite but she wasn't obviously either sex, can she suddenly develop into both or into a male or female?

Rabbits can retract their testicles deep in to their abdomen. It may be a case of being a late bloomer (retained testicles) and the testicles have now descended to become visible.
You may benefit asking the vet about hormone testing (blood test) to see if there is a peak in hormones which may indicate if male. (Incase testicles are retracted when you try to check later).

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If they were retracted, would they be visible internally? As when she was still cut open, they had a look both sides and saw nothing. Before doing sugery nothing obvious from the outside either. They said there was something there but not sure what. Forgot they can retract back inside, that wont help if that happens tomorrow! I might phone vet tomorrow to find out how much that blood test might cost. Slightly complicated question but if for example she has developed further both ways male and female, would they be able to tell she has male and female hormones or only know there's some type of hormone there. I know it's slightly confusing but if she is actually a boy not both would they be able to tell?