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Injury During Bonding - Do I Leave Them Together Overnight - Please Help!

B

Beapig

Mama Doe
Hi everyone,

So as you may have seen, Beatrice and Ham have been bonding today. I'm concerned for Beatrice's safety. I thought that after a few hours of bonding, Ham might calm down, but he has been continuously mounting her and pulling out her fur. She is running away from him a lot and hiding in her litter tray because he's so persistent. I noticed he was pulling the fur on her face around her eye, and pulled him off of her because it looked too violent. I noticed just now that there's a bump above her eye which is bleeding.

20171021_194548 by Rachel Brown, on Flickr

She is looking battered and I feel awful. I think maybe he's being so persistent because she's acting indifferently to him. She did wash him hours ago, just the once on the head. He's thumping his leg a lot like he's annoyed and then mounting her and pulling fur more. They're just next door from our bedroom and I don't know if I should pull her out of there or not. I know you're not meant to split them up during bonding. Any help/advice is appreciated :(
 
Babsie said:
Bump
Click to expand...

I'm thinking I could put a partition across the middle so they're still technically in the same area but he can't get to her, and then we can try again in the morning? Feeling a bit disappointed/sad because it seemed to be going well to start with, but he is just hurting her now :(
 
Personally I'd split them overnight then continue with the bonding tomorrow. Mainly because she doesn't seem comfortable and I'd be worried about stasis caused by stress from him pestering her all night x

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Beapig said:
I'm thinking I could put a partition across the middle so they're still technically in the same area but he can't get to her, and then we can try again in the morning? Feeling a bit disappointed/sad because it seemed to be going well to start with, but he is just hurting her now :(
Click to expand...

To be on the safe side, I would separate completely and start afresh. I know it is said not to separate once bonding has started, but in these circumstances I would split them. You can't risk anything else happening or your little doe being so frightened.
 
daphnephoebe said:
Personally I'd split them overnight then continue with the bonding tomorrow. Mainly because she doesn't seem comfortable and I'd be worried about stasis caused by stress from him pestering her all night x

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Click to expand...

Pleased you feel the same as I do.
 
daphnephoebe said:
Personally I'd split them overnight then continue with the bonding tomorrow. Mainly because she doesn't seem comfortable and I'd be worried about stasis caused by stress from him pestering her all night x

Sent from my SM-G903F using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

Thank you daphnephoebe and Babsie for the advice. At the minute we've just put a partition across the run. He is still thumping but there's no way he can get to her. Should we split them up completely? I feel very gutted about this - we adopted Beatrice to give Ham company as it was obvious he was really lonely, but he doesn't seem to know how to treat her gently. Do you think that with time he'll calm down, or is it doomed?
 
If there is no change of him getting in with her tonight I would leave as they are now.
Provide each a place to hide away from each other too ;) x

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Beapig said:
Thank you daphnephoebe and Babsie for the advice. At the minute we've just put a partition across the run. He is still thumping but there's no way he can get to her. Should we split them up completely? I feel very gutted about this - we adopted Beatrice to give Ham company as it was obvious he was really lonely, but he doesn't seem to know how to treat her gently. Do you think that with time he'll calm down, or is it doomed?
Click to expand...

Split them completely is my advice. What you don't want is to risk spoiling any chance of bonding.
Don't be downhearted!
Perhaps we could discuss the rest tomorrow?
 
daphnephoebe said:
If there is no change of him getting in with her tonight I would leave as they are now.
Provide each a place to hide away from each other too ;) x

Sent from my SM-G903F using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

20171021_210827 by Rachel Brown, on Flickr

This is how the situation is looking with them now. Bea is sniffing him up at the bars, I wouldn't say she's terrified. He's frustrated that he can't get to her and is thumping his foot a lot, but he's been doing that all day today anyway.

Should we just try again tomorrow? I don't know if it's normal that he hasn't stopped mounting her all day. But she's a tiny little thing and I'm worried for her. I think it's because she is acting quite indifferently and he's desperate for attention.
 
Babsie said:
Split them completely is my advice. What you don't want is to risk spoiling any chance of bonding.
Don't be downhearted!
Perhaps we could discuss the rest tomorrow?
Click to expand...

That would be great Babsie. Thanks for your advice everyone <3 I'm so new to all this and just want to make sure that they're both happy and safe!
 
She seems better with a partition.
Honestly I think leaving them like that will provide a better chance of attempting another bond tomorrow but if your nervous you can do a full separation.

You may need to look at a different way to bond such as a slightly larger space and provide some bolt boxes for her.

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Hi there, I'm no expert, but have done a few bondings.

If it were me and it was practical to do so, I think I'd move them away from each other tonight. Just in case being along side upsets either of them during the night.

When we bonded a trio outside and couldn't watch them constantly, we would separate them after a few hours and it didn't harm their future bond. We did this until we were confident they could be left.

I think there's every chance he will calm down. You might just need to take things really slowly. Was he neutered long ago? (you probably said, but I can't recall) x
 
MightyMax said:
Remind me when they were spayed and neutered? :wave:
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He was neutered Wednesday 27th September. So it has been almost a month. She was spayed on the same day. It did occur to me: is he still too hormonal? Because I've seen people say it can take up to 6 months for horomones to subside.

Because of what everyone is saying I'm wondering if we should move Beatrice elsewhere tonight, just incase...
 
Beapig said:
He was neutered Wednesday 27th September. So it has been almost a month. She was spayed on the same day. It did occur to me: is he still too hormonal? Because I've seen people say it can take up to 6 months for horomones to subside.

Because of what everyone is saying I'm wondering if we should move Beatrice elsewhere tonight, just incase...
Click to expand...


OK this makes sense now. What you were describing is unusual (as regards bonding a male/female pair) and there's always more to this than meets the eye. That's why I usually give advice *over the phone* as you can't get all the facts from a post on a Forum :)

I am an experienced bonder, having done hundreds .. and I wouldn't bond a male rabbit within 4 and ideally 6 weeks post castrate. I probably said this to you at some point, perhaps in PM? Even one of my own rabbits this year, I made sure he was 6 weeks post castrate .. You haven't left it a month for Ham, so I can't blame his behaviour really :)

Also, a female spay can take 3/4 weeks to get over.

Male hormones can remain 'active' for up to 12 weeks and a female's hormones up to 8 weeks.

I think there lies your problem ..... What do you think?
 
MightyMax said:
OK this makes sense now. What you were describing is unusual (as regards bonding a male/female pair) and there's always more to this than meets the eye. That's why I usually give advice *over the phone* as you can't get all the facts from a post on a Forum :)

I am an experienced bonder, having done hundreds .. and I wouldn't bond a male rabbit within 4 and ideally 6 weeks post castrate. I probably said this to you at some point, perhaps in PM? Even one of my own rabbits this year, I made sure he was 6 weeks post castrate .. You haven't left it a month for Ham, so I can't blame his behaviour really :)

Also, a female spay can take 3/4 weeks to get over.

Male hormones can remain 'active' for up to 12 weeks and a female's hormones up to 8 weeks.

I think there lies your problem ..... What do you think?
Click to expand...

Thanks for your message MM. Well, this makes me feel stupid :cry: :oops: To be honest with you I have read so many different things, and was going by this post on Rabbits United where a member made a long post about bonding and said she usually left that just 10-14 days after castrating. Because so many people had replied to it I assumed this was legitimate advice:

http://forums.rabbitrehome.org.uk/showthread.php?55913-No-nonsence-approach-to-bunny-bonding-and-neutering

I'm sorry, I'd never do anything to put either of them in harms way :( About to put Beatrice back out in her hutch now.
 
I’m not a bonding expert but I think hormones may be playing a part - I bonded a female into my existing male pair last year and waited 6 weeks after she was spayed. They were living side by side during the 6 weeks wait / recovery period with the pens far enough apart that they couldn’t reach each other to have a cheeky little bite through the bars!

I’ll leave it to the more experienced re whether to completely separate them overnight!
 
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