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My poor Noah bear - U/D 11th Nov

C

catherine09

Mama Doe
As if he didn't have enough health issues - add urine incontinence to the list!!

He was weeing in slightly odd places about 5 weeks ago and after being a very tidy boy I thought this was odd and whipped him up to antons. Diagnosed a deformed spinal disc and arthritis and John thought pain was stopping him hopping into the litter box all the time. Started metacam.

This week he has got a lot, lot worse. I've watched him wee in the middle of the floor which is so unlike him, but it was as though he hadn't even noticed he had done it. No attempt at a tail lift whatsoever - just weed then hopped off again. He is also drinking a lot more than normal.

Took him to vets tonight and we've started a 28 course of panacur in case it's EC. They are going to ring John when he is back and discuss putting him on a incontinence drug to see if it helps. Problem is - of the two, one is female hormone based so not ideal for a male, and the other one can affect the heart :(

My poor boy - he's so special and takes it all in his stride, I'm terrified this is linked to his deformed disc and his spinal cord is being affected. So so scared it's linked.
 
Last edited:
Poor Noah :( Sending him lots of vibes and I hope that the vet can help him with some suitable medication.
 
Aaaaw - I have a really soft spot for Noah and he looked so well last time I saw him. Hoping that John will find a treatment that works for your special boy :love:
 
I think anyone who meets him has a soft spot for the handsome laid-back Noah - and just as you had got your trio settled. We need JC.
 
My most heartfelt vibes for dear Noah that he can recover some control. (((((((((Vibes)))))))))
It's hard having a bunny with spinal deformities. In the end, both Fiver and Mimzy were rife with them. I wish this kind of thing didn't happen to rabbits, who so very much depend on their agility.

Thinking of you and sending (((((hugs)))) xxxxx
 
catherine09 said:
As if he didn't have enough health issues - add urine incontinence to the list!!

He was weeing in slightly odd places about 5 weeks ago and after being a very tidy boy I thought this was odd and whipped him up to antons. Diagnosed a deformed spinal disc and arthritis and John thought pain was stopping him hopping into the litter box all the time. Started metacam.

This week he has got a lot, lot worse. I've watched him wee in the middle of the floor which is so unlike him, but it was as though he hadn't even noticed he had done it. No attempt at a tail lift whatsoever - just weed then hopped off again. He is also drinking a lot more than normal.

Took him to vets tonight and we've started a 28 course of panacur in case it's EC. They are going to ring John when he is back and discuss putting him on a incontinence drug to see if it helps. Problem is - of the two, one is female hormone based so not ideal for a male, and the other one can affect the heart :(

My poor boy - he's so special and takes it all in his stride, I'm terrified this is linked to his deformed disc and his spinal cord is being affected. So so scared it's linked.
Click to expand...

Poor dear chap :cry: I really hope that his latest problem is not a serious as you fear. I assume the Vet had a good feel of his bladder and ruled out a build up of sludge ? Bladder sludge due to reduced mobility (eg arthritic related reduced mobility) can present in a similar way to what you have described.

Sending lots of vibes for your special friend xx
 
catherine09 said:
As if he didn't have enough health issues - add urine incontinence to the list!!

He was weeing in slightly odd places about 5 weeks ago and after being a very tidy boy I thought this was odd and whipped him up to antons. Diagnosed a deformed spinal disc and arthritis and John thought pain was stopping him hopping into the litter box all the time. Started metacam.

This week he has got a lot, lot worse. I've watched him wee in the middle of the floor which is so unlike him, but it was as though he hadn't even noticed he had done it. No attempt at a tail lift whatsoever - just weed then hopped off again. He is also drinking a lot more than normal.

Took him to vets tonight and we've started a 28 course of panacur in case it's EC. They are going to ring John when he is back and discuss putting him on a incontinence drug to see if it helps. Problem is - of the two, one is female hormone based so not ideal for a male, and the other one can affect the heart :(

My poor boy - he's so special and takes it all in his stride, I'm terrified this is linked to his deformed disc and his spinal cord is being affected. So so scared it's linked.
Click to expand...


So sorry to here this :(

I've had to deal with this recently and we went down the route of a full blood profile and then an X-ray for bladder sludge. We also sent away a sample to the lab to culture it and see what bacteria were present.

I am guessing you have all those bases covered. I've also used the Propalin syrup for one of mine

Good luck xx
 
He was x rayed about 4 weeks ago by JC and he didn't mention anything then. If he needs to be x rayed again he will be but I am a nervous wreck when he has to have a GA so I hope not :(

I'm away for 2 weeks now anyway so I don't think much will be able to happen in the meantime aside from the panacur and I expect Noah will go to Antons for some tests when I am back. My poor bunny sitters will have a bit more cleaning to do in the meantime :(
 
catherine09 said:
He was x rayed about 4 weeks ago by JC and he didn't mention anything then. If he needs to be x rayed again he will be but I am a nervous wreck when he has to have a GA so I hope not :(

I'm away for 2 weeks now anyway so I don't think much will be able to happen in the meantime aside from the panacur and I expect Noah will go to Antons for some tests when I am back. My poor bunny sitters will have a bit more cleaning to do in the meantime :(
Click to expand...

I can totally understand that and hopefully another GA/Xray wont be necessary. Lots more vibes being sent xx
 
catherine09 said:
He was x rayed about 4 weeks ago by JC and he didn't mention anything then. If he needs to be x rayed again he will be but I am a nervous wreck when he has to have a GA so I hope not :(

I'm away for 2 weeks now anyway so I don't think much will be able to happen in the meantime aside from the panacur and I expect Noah will go to Antons for some tests when I am back. My poor bunny sitters will have a bit more cleaning to do in the meantime :(
Click to expand...


I would agree with you, I wouldn't do another X-ray just yet if it's not indicated. If JC didn't mention it then I'm sure he would if it were needed :)

I hope you have a lovely time away and that things are OK for Noah in the meantime x
 
So, this has moved on in the last few weeks, I am coming here to update and (hopefully ask for some advice / opinions).

We have done full urinary testing which showed up no serious abnormalities. Yesterday he was in the vets for an ultrasound of his kidneys and bladder, (mainly to check for sludge/ stones/kidney problems) which also showed nothing unusual.

So my vet and JC have conferred with each other and come to the conclusion that in the absence of anything else, this must be incontinence related and we are now looking at different options for him.

They have suggested two options - and I wonder if anyone has any experience with either??;

Using a drug called Urolin, one of the side effects of which is heart problems (Noah has congestive heart failure) - so that's probably not a viable option.

Having a hormonal implant called Suprelorin (same one they use in ferrets / dogs for anti fertility). This would last 6 months and would work to thicken up the muscles around the bladder and hopefully help with the incontinence.

I am obviously leaning 95% towards the implant but there isn't much information in male rabbits as to how effective it is (v effective in female rabbits according to JC's case studies). Experimental but I suppose we have no other real options and this is unlikely to actually 'harm' him. The implant is injected in like a microchip so no GA.

Also, I wondered if anyone else had male rabbits with urinary incontinence that were treated any other way? For info, Noah has already had a 28 day course panacur in-case of EC and is on the highest dose of metacam available for his weight for arthritis in the spine. I think the incontinence is related to the arthritis and is nerve related to be honest (my 'gut feeling' all along).
 
catherine09 said:
So, this has moved on in the last few weeks, I am coming here to update and (hopefully ask for some advice / opinions).

We have done full urinary testing which showed up no serious abnormalities. Yesterday he was in the vets for an ultrasound of his kidneys and bladder, (mainly to check for sludge/ stones/kidney problems) which also showed nothing unusual.

So my vet and JC have conferred with each other and come to the conclusion that in the absence of anything else, this must be incontinence related and we are now looking at different options for him.

They have suggested two options - and I wonder if anyone has any experience with either??;

Using a drug called Urolin, one of the side effects of which is heart problems (Noah has congestive heart failure) - so that's probably not a viable option.

Having a hormonal implant called Suprelorin (same one they use in ferrets / dogs for anti fertility). This would last 6 months and would work to thicken up the muscles around the bladder and hopefully help with the incontinence.

I am obviously leaning 95% towards the implant but there isn't much information in male rabbits as to how effective it is (v effective in female rabbits according to JC's case studies). Experimental but I suppose we have no other real options and this is unlikely to actually 'harm' him. The implant is injected in like a microchip so no GA.

Also, I wondered if anyone else had male rabbits with urinary incontinence that were treated any other way? For info, Noah has already had a 28 day course panacur in-case of EC and is on the highest dose of metacam available for his weight for arthritis in the spine. I think the incontinence is related to the arthritis and is nerve related to be honest (my 'gut feeling' all along).
Click to expand...

I have had a few Bucks who have had Suprelorin implants, but for Adrenal disease not incontinence.

How severe is Noah's incontinence ? I assume he has had Xrays of his spine to ascertain the exact location of his arthritic condition ? This would give a clue as to whether it is related to his bladder issues
 
Jack's-Jane said:
I have had a few Bucks who have had Suprelorin implants, but for Adrenal disease not incontinence.

How severe is Noah's incontinence ? I assume he has had Xrays of his spine to ascertain the exact location of his arthritic condition ? This would give a clue as to whether it is related to his bladder issues
Click to expand...

Very severe now. Twice a day I change the newspaper in their enclosure and it’s soaked through every time. I’ve had to move them into a smaller space just to be able to manage the cleaning aspect, also to ensure it’s fully fly protected as of course he is at real risk of fly strike. With their big kennel and run it was becoming a real risk of flies getting to him

Yes he had X rays at Anton vets, we’ve always suspected it was the arthritis causing it but to be prudent decided to rule everything out first.
 
catherine09 said:
Very severe now. Twice a day I change the newspaper in their enclosure and it’s soaked through every time. I’ve had to move them into a smaller space just to be able to manage the cleaning aspect, also to ensure it’s fully fly protected as of course he is at real risk of fly strike. With their big kennel and run it was becoming a real risk of flies getting to him

Yes he had X rays at Anton vets, we’ve always suspected it was the arthritis causing it but to be prudent decided to rule everything out first.
Click to expand...

Not sure how a hormone implant would help then :?
 
Well if it is, the implant won’t work. Like I said we are trying to rule everything else out. If it is genuine incontinence then it will be worth trying. If it isn’t, well at least we have tried and I will have to figure out how to cope with the housing challenges.

I go to one of the leading rabbit specialist vets in the country and trust what he says implicitly.
 
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