Fighting again

I apologise in advance, this will need to be a quick post as I am due at work, but I am desperate for some help! We had an outbreak of fighting again last night - three times we had to intervene and separate them. It seemed to be over their vegetables, they wound themselves up stealing from each other, but it was no different to any other night until the fight started, so I don't know if it was that or if that was just the trigger for something else. If it was the food, it may be that Ossie isn't getting as much as she'd like, as she has lost weight since she came to us (she was a little overweight before, so this is, in itself, good, but we need to reverse the trend now before she loses too much!) So two questions on that:

a) How much veg should we be giving? Monty (1.9kg ish) always got a handful. We're not terribly scientific, but we've been trying to give two handfuls plus a little bit (it's possible that Monty is eating more of that than his "share"). Ossie's 4kg ish (she was 4.4 kg last weighed, but as I say, she's definitely lost some weight). Can anybody say with more certainty how much we should be giving her? They also get a handful of pellets shared between them once a day. I don't want to give too many veg or pellets, but obviously if this is the problem we'd start giving more. They have constant access to hay, get fresh hay every 12 hours, and always have hay left over when I come to change them, so she should have enough to eat, she's just possibly not getting enough from hay alone for some reason.

b) We're considering splitting them up for feeding to make sure Ossie's getting enough. How would we do this? Do we just airlift Monty to the sofa and shut Ossie into the kitchen for a few minutes while they eat? I'm keen not to separate them unduly, but I think it would be best to go for complete separation to start with. They're usually more interested in stealing from each other than the actual veg, so I think feeding in the room would just be too much temptation to go for each other's food instead.

Is there anything else we could be missing? I am just so frustrated and sad that they are fighting again. They have hay and water, they are still mainly in the kitchen but we've been building up the time they get in the living room, and the past few days they've been doing four hours a day without any problems (until last night) so they are getting some running around and exercise. I make sure to give them little treats/toys in the kitchen to keep them entertained. Normally they're fine, and as I say, we'd been building up longer times in the living room and it was going really well. Both are eating well and, as far as I can tell, drinking normally, neither seems ill. Did we do anything? Could we do anything more?

Thanks one and all.

Oh I'm so sorry MH

I know a few members have to separate buns for feeding and if their bond is generally okay other than feeding I think this may be your best option.
You can either hand feed them so they don't get another bit until they've eaten the bit they have. Or as you suggested yourself you can take one into the living room & leave one in the kitchen for dinner.

If I remember correctly you already scatter feed and don't use bowls so that's good

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Oh this is sad Unfortunately I don't think that any of this can be scientific. Regarding the food and feeding, your two rabbits weigh about the same as my two combined. I do give them much more forage/veg/herbs than a handful each, but that could just be what my rabbits have got used to. Also judging it by handfuls is not easy, as a handful of spring cabbage heart is much more than a handful of Coriander for instance. Personally, I would be unhappy about splitting them to eat as I think eating for rabbits is a social occasion. My rabbits have always pinched food out of another's mouth. They even do it sometimes with hay. It seems to be a normal rabbit behaviour, but of course it should not lead to fighting and in my experience here it's never caused any aggression. I actually think they enjoy doing it. My rabbits sleep most of the morning and part of the afternoon, but at all other times there is usually something to nibble. When they get up, this could be what's left from their forage breakfast or twigs. And then in the afternoon they usually get more forage or hand-cut grass. Then in the evening they get a few pellets. Even before I go to bed and after medicating Tan, I give them hazel/hawthorn/willow branches. Maybe, you could spread their food out more during the day, so that they don't think that they have it eat it quickly as it will be a long time before they get anything else.

I hope you can find something that works.

Thank you both

I think separating for vegetables for now has to be the answer, unfortunately. They do share pellets and hay quite happily (even stealing hay from each other) but there's something about vegetables that seems to set them off. I guess that would also rule out spreading out that sort of food - although I do try and do something mid-afternoon days I'm off and here (some dried treats, something hanging, just something entertaining for them) and usually vegetables are fed two or three times over the evening (as partner and I compete to buy their affection )

We have been erring on the side of caution - we figured that underfeeding veg and leaving them to eat more hay was better than overfeeding veg and putting them off hay. I think we'll probably continue this with Monty if we do separate them, just a handful or so a day, as that's how we've always fed him, so we know that works. How much, roughly, should we be giving Ossie, and what sort of variety? Sorry, I know that's a difficult question to answer! She's just so huge, and she doesn't seem to eat as much hay, so I don't know whether it's better to feed her enough or encourage more hay (she does eat hay, she just doesn't seem to be a huge fan of it - I think she had access more to things like readigrass in her old home).

Just went in to check on them in my lunch break. Two happy bunnies lying side by side in their litter tray. Why can't they just be happy bunnies always?!

Monty's Human said:

Thank you both

I think separating for vegetables for now has to be the answer, unfortunately. They do share pellets and hay quite happily (even stealing hay from each other) but there's something about vegetables that seems to set them off. I guess that would also rule out spreading out that sort of food - although I do try and do something mid-afternoon days I'm off and here (some dried treats, something hanging, just something entertaining for them) and usually vegetables are fed two or three times over the evening (as partner and I compete to buy their affection )

We have been erring on the side of caution - we figured that underfeeding veg and leaving them to eat more hay was better than overfeeding veg and putting them off hay. I think we'll probably continue this with Monty if we do separate them, just a handful or so a day, as that's how we've always fed him, so we know that works. How much, roughly, should we be giving Ossie, and what sort of variety? Sorry, I know that's a difficult question to answer! She's just so huge, and she doesn't seem to eat as much hay, so I don't know whether it's better to feed her enough or encourage more hay (she does eat hay, she just doesn't seem to be a huge fan of it - I think she had access more to things like readigrass in her old home).

Just went in to check on them in my lunch break. Two happy bunnies lying side by side in their litter tray. Why can't they just be happy bunnies always?!

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I'd just go with a handful and try to offer different types of hay.
What do they have now? I've got some oathay from Timothy hay if you'd like me to send you some to try?

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Oh no MH - sorry to hear this!!!

I can understand your concern and therefore deciding to separate them for their vegetables. Are they OK when you and your partner hand-feed them vegetables in the evening? What do they have first thing? When do they get their pellets?

Tbh I'm quite surprised that they value vegetables over pellets. I would have thought the opposite

Omi said:

I can understand your concern and therefore deciding to separate them for their vegetables. Are they OK when you and your partner hand-feed them vegetables in the evening? What do they have first thing? When do they get their pellets?

Tbh I'm quite surprised that they value vegetables over pellets. I would have thought the opposite

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I think they value pellets a lot more - no time for fighting, you just have to eat as many as possible before the other greedy sod gets them all It's only with vegetables that there's room for disagreement!

They get fresh Timothy hay in the morning, but no veg or pellets, as they seem to be allowed so little that splitting them into two would mean they get almost nothing both times? Pellets are saved for the evening - we have to put them back in the kitchen at bed time, so rather than carry them unnecessarily, we save up pellet time and use that to tempt them back in. I'm more than open to changing the routine long term, but for now I think that has to continue, until they can have constant access to the living room. They're usually quite good about hand feeding and when we do we make sure they share nicely. But Ossie is sometimes hesitant to hand feed, she prefers it scattered, so we sometimes hand feed and sometimes scatter. I think, again, this is where separating for now might help - I'm happy to be mean and hold Monty on the sofa (or shut him out the kitchen, though I don't want him alone in the living room thinking it's "his" space) until Ossie's done in her own time.

daphnephoebe said:

I'd just go with a handful and try to offer different types of hay.
What do they have now? I've got some oathay from Timothy hay if you'd like me to send you some to try?

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At the moment they have Timothy and meadow. We don't have a lot of storage space - all their things have to sit on top of the hutch (and ideally without blocking out the very nice painting which was hung there before we got rabbits :lol - so we get a 1kg bag of each from the local Wilko as and when required. Because of that we've always stuck with just the two types (and straw for bedding when they're in the hutch) but I've looked at Timothy Hay and we think we could store the 7kg of oat hay (though I may end up having to "store" some of it by creating a large pile on the floor that they have free access to outside their litter tray :lol so if I may take you up on that, that would be fantastic! :thumb: Thank you! (Really, anything to calm them down is such a lifesaver, thank you) I should clarify that Ossie does eat hay, Timothy in particular, she just doesn't seem to be eating enough to keep her full. Pest!

Me too MM! Thanks They're pests, the pair of them

They've been in the living room for three hours so far today (usually out til between 8.30 and 9) and out the corner of my eye I can just see two rabbits lying head to head, each trying to slide under the other's chin. You wouldn't think I'm still pulling lumps of loose fur out of Ossie from last night. I honestly don't know what to make of them.

Monty's Human said:

I think they value pellets a lot more - no time for fighting, you just have to eat as many as possible before the other greedy sod gets them all It's only with vegetables that there's room for disagreement!

They get fresh Timothy hay in the morning, but no veg or pellets, as they seem to be allowed so little that splitting them into two would mean they get almost nothing both times? Pellets are saved for the evening - we have to put them back in the kitchen at bed time, so rather than carry them unnecessarily, we save up pellet time and use that to tempt them back in. I'm more than open to changing the routine long term, but for now I think that has to continue, until they can have constant access to the living room. They're usually quite good about hand feeding and when we do we make sure they share nicely. But Ossie is sometimes hesitant to hand feed, she prefers it scattered, so we sometimes hand feed and sometimes scatter. I think, again, this is where separating for now might help - I'm happy to be mean and hold Monty on the sofa (or shut him out the kitchen, though I don't want him alone in the living room thinking it's "his" space) until Ossie's done in her own time.



At the moment they have Timothy and meadow. We don't have a lot of storage space - all their things have to sit on top of the hutch (and ideally without blocking out the very nice painting which was hung there before we got rabbits [emoji38]) - so we get a 1kg bag of each from the local Wilko as and when required. Because of that we've always stuck with just the two types (and straw for bedding when they're in the hutch) but I've looked at Timothy Hay and we think we could store the 7kg of oat hay (though I may end up having to "store" some of it by creating a large pile on the floor that they have free access to outside their litter tray [emoji38]) so if I may take you up on that, that would be fantastic! :thumb: Thank you! (Really, anything to calm them down is such a lifesaver, thank you) I should clarify that Ossie does eat hay, Timothy in particular, she just doesn't seem to be eating enough to keep her full. Pest!

Me too MM! Thanks They're pests, the pair of them

They've been in the living room for three hours so far today (usually out til between 8.30 and 9) and out the corner of my eye I can just see two rabbits lying head to head, each trying to slide under the other's chin. You wouldn't think I'm still pulling lumps of loose fur out of Ossie from last night. I honestly don't know what to make of them.

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Once I get a box I shall PM you for your address x

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daphnephoebe said:

Once I get a box I shall PM you for your address x

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Thank you! It's really lovely of you.

If I've understood correctly, they are usually in the kitchen, but in the evening they also go in the living room. They have their vegetables in the living room and you use the pellets to encourage them to go back into the kitchen at bedtime?

If this is correct, it might be interesting to swop the pellets and the vegetables round as an experiment. I'm wondering if the competitiveness with the vegetables occurs only because they are very hungry then and so if you feed pellets first, you might find that the problem arises with the pellets and the vegetables are OK. This would confirm that it's hunger causing the problem. If this is the case, it might be worth getting something like Fibafirst and hand-feed them one stick each when they come into the living room.

Omi said:

If I've understood correctly, they are usually in the kitchen, but in the evening they also go in the living room. They have their vegetables in the living room and you use the pellets to encourage them to go back into the kitchen at bedtime?

If this is correct, it might be interesting to swop the pellets and the vegetables round as an experiment. I'm wondering if the competitiveness with the vegetables occurs only because they are very hungry then and so if you feed pellets first, you might find that the problem arises with the pellets and the vegetables are OK. This would confirm that it's hunger causing the problem. If this is the case, it might be worth getting something like Fibafirst and hand-feed them one stick each when they come into the living room.

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Thank you for the thought! That certainly could be what is causing it. They tend to get fresh hay at about the same time as vegetables, then pellets later on. It, thankfully, doesn't seem to be a living room thing, as they've had a couple of fights over veg in the kitchen as well (both again afternoon/early evening), but it could be a hunger thing. So perhaps I should be feeding them something in the afternoon? Or even in the morning as a 12 hours after veg/pellets? I don't want to discourage hay eating is the only thing - and they definitely have plenty of hay throughout the day, so it can't be an absence of any food causing it, just something hay related.

We separated them this evening, which seems to be at least a temporary solution. Ossie had hers on the kitchen floor (she hates being handled) and was given more veg than she usually gets, but she wolfed it all down all the same. I had Monty up on the sofa, and he ate quite happily but left a bit of cabbage (which went to Ossie before they were re-united, and which she also wolfed down); it was actually rather lovely, I was able to have Monty and Me time again and stroke and snuggle while he ate, and since he's been neutered he's become so docile and lovely that he does an amazing cuddle now. I have to confess, having very reluctantly given him up to Ossie because that's what best for him, I was really quite pleased to have the excuse for the two of us to have a lovely ten minutes together like the old days. (I wouldn't in any way let this dictate food policy that's best for them but... separating isn't necessarily a negative in my book!)

What would be the best way of trying to avoid early evening hanger? I'm not always around at that sort of time, so feeding something extra in the morning would probably be my preferred choice of routine, but that's also when they do most of their hay eating.

Monty's Human said:

What would be the best way of trying to avoid early evening hanger? I'm not always around at that sort of time, so feeding something extra in the morning would probably be my preferred choice of routine, but that's also when they do most of their hay eating.

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I think if it is being caused by hunger, then to have the best effect you would need to feed shortly before the vegetables. As I suggested, I would get some Fibafirst sticks ( http://supremepetfoods.com/fiba-first-2/ ) and give them one each at the same time, making sure they are not sitting too close together. This might then take the edge off the hunger. It would also not prevent them eating hay during the rest of the day. Alternatively, you could just hand feed them a couple of their usual pellets instead.

I like Omi's suggestions (though fibrafirst makes my bunnies misbehave, as does pear & homemade treats). Mine have a slight tendancy to food aggression & its usually high value stuff. They do run off with forage but are ok about getting it nicked. As well as experimenting with the hungry stuff maybe cutting the veg so small its not worth running off with might work .

Omi said:

I think if it is being caused by hunger, then to have the best effect you would need to feed shortly before the vegetables. As I suggested, I would get some Fibafirst sticks ( http://supremepetfoods.com/fiba-first-2/ ) and give them one each at the same time, making sure they are not sitting too close together. This might then take the edge off the hunger. It would also not prevent them eating hay during the rest of the day. Alternatively, you could just hand feed them a couple of their usual pellets instead.

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Thank you! I will buy some of that tomorrow when I have my card handy and see what they make of it

joey&boo said:

I like Omi's suggestions (though fibrafirst makes my bunnies misbehave, as does pear & homemade treats). Mine have a slight tendancy to food aggression & its usually high value stuff. They do run off with forage but are ok about getting it nicked. As well as experimenting with the hungry stuff maybe cutting the veg so small its not worth running off with might work .

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This is the odd thing. Most things they will share just fine - pellets they rummage for side by side, climbing over each other, the works, and it's fine; hay they'll steal from each other's mouths and this is normal; an apple tree branch they'll gladly sit side by side and nomble on, and the most drama is occasionally one will try and pull it more towards them. But as soon as it's veg, pretty well any kind of veg, they start something. Most of the time it doesn't lead to full on fighting, Monty will steal whatever it is and run away and Ossie will pursue and steal back and so on. It's possible the fighting is an accident, Ossie in particular is quite aggressive in trying to steal food - I have wondered if she's perhaps accidentally nipping Monty and that's what starts it (or vice versa, but Ossie's the more likely suspect). We do cut it up to a certain extent, as only giving one of something is more likely to start something, but to be honest they seem to just try and steal it because they want what the other has - they'll ignore identical vegetables under their noses in favour of stealing from the other one. Shy of mulching it up into a soggy ball, I'm not sure how to stop it being "stealable"! Thank you for the idea though If we try and go back to sharing rather than separating in the future, I'll try and remember to break it all up further.

(I think we'll be sticking with separating for the foreseeable, if it wards off fights. Right now the focus is just on trying to get them to be able to use the living room peacefully full time - once there, looking after them is much easier and they'll have access to things that they don't at the moment, like a water bottle, and hay outside of their litter trays. Whatever it takes to get us that far! Once they're always in the living room, though, I'll maybe look again at shared feeding time.)

MH - I've just been reading your posts - sorry to hear your rabbits have been fighting and thank you for commenting and giving advice on mine. I'm not experienced enough to offer you any advice but just want to wish you luck with it all. I hope it works out.


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I had the issue with one of the buns getting antsy near to feeding time.

I give him a bowl of fresh picked grass. Well for all of them really, but he's the only one who's hungry enough to eat it!

I don't give them anything that will 'spoil their appetite' - milky way, wasn't it?

LarryMolly said:

MH - I've just been reading your posts - sorry to hear your rabbits have been fighting and thank you for commenting and giving advice on mine. I'm not experienced enough to offer you any advice but just want to wish you luck with it all. I hope it works out.


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Thank you

I hesitate to confess it, MM, but we don't have any fresh grass on the property. I'm sure I could rustle them up a chocolate bar, though (I have suggested getting some grass, but nobody's yet offered to take up all the concrete to allow me to plant some. Can't think why!)

I have just ordered some Fibafirst, so when that arrives I'll report back on if there's any progress! I am happy to report that last night went well, and they were safely back in the kitchen with no arguing. That was about half an hour earlier than usual because Monty was starting to wind Ossie up (chinning her back) so I brought forward pellet time and hustled them back in - but I'd let them out an hour earlier than they'd been before, so they've still gained half an hour of behaving in the living room!

Monty's Human said:

Thank you

I hesitate to confess it, MM, but we don't have any fresh grass on the property. I'm sure I could rustle them up a chocolate bar, though (I have suggested getting some grass, but nobody's yet offered to take up all the concrete to allow me to plant some. Can't think why!)

I have just ordered some Fibafirst, so when that arrives I'll report back on if there's any progress! I am happy to report that last night went well, and they were safely back in the kitchen with no arguing. That was about half an hour earlier than usual because Monty was starting to wind Ossie up (chinning her back) so I brought forward pellet time and hustled them back in - but I'd let them out an hour earlier than they'd been before, so they've still gained half an hour of behaving in the living room!

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Right now I don't have any I can cut either - I go and raid the nearest green patch

You can grow grass in trays on windowsills

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