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I don't really know where else to put this :( *warning-thread regarding PTS*

MimzMum

Wise Old Thumper
Can someone please explain to me why a vet would choose IP injection protocol for a rabbit instead of proper euthanasia? (As in what's used for cats or dogs?) My vets in Alaska said they'd do whatever they could to find a vein instead of pericardial injection when the time came. My current vets claim there's no way to do that. I feel like they're brushing me off because they just can't be bothered with bunnies. They're obviously considered livestock here.

I couldn't afford Mimzy's appointment back on the 8th because my paycheck wasn't large enough. I still need to find a way to gently let him go. I am not having him euthanised with a needle to the heart under any circumstances. It's barbaric. How do I help him without causing his last moments to be horrifying and stressful? Is there no way I can insist on his being handled the way other pets are done?

I am furious and frustrated. I fear my boy is suffering and it's hard enough having to make the decision to let him go without this folderol. Please, I don't want to start a bashing thread. I really need a compassionate, sensible answer. I feel like I'm just getting dismissive platitudes from the vets. If this is all any vet does, then I've got no choice. But somehow, I can't imagine that is how every vet would proceed in this situation.

Many thanks for all replies and I'm sorry to be bringing this up in such a short and cross manner, but I am at my wit's end, atm. :cry: Mimzy means the world to me, but I don't know how to make his journey to the Bridge a safe and kind one. :cry:
 
I don't know anything that would help, MimzMum, but I am very sorry it has come to this.
 
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I'm so sorry to hear this MimzMum :( It sounds to me as if they're not very confident with rabbits; how would they anaesthetise a rabbit, they wouldn't do that via an injection into the heart. The only time I've ever known it considered has been in the case of extremely severe circulatory collapse where it's impossible to find a vein, but that must be incredibly rare and even then I bet there are other options to make it kinder. Normally in my experience, a vet would clip the ear, put some anaesthetic cream on the area and then put an IV catheter into the marginal ear vein, which they would then use to inject the drug IV. Essentially euthanasia is an overdose of anaesthetic, so the vet should really try and do it the same (kind) way they would inject anaesthetic into a rabbit. Are you stuck with the only vet in the area? Hugs xx
 
Can someone please explain to me why a vet would choose IP injection protocol for a rabbit instead of proper euthanasia? (As in what's used for cats or dogs?) My vets in Alaska said they'd do whatever they could to find a vein instead of pericardial injection when the time came. My current vets claim there's no way to do that. I feel like they're brushing me off because they just can't be bothered with bunnies. They're obviously considered livestock here.

I couldn't afford Mimzy's appointment back on the 8th because my paycheck wasn't large enough. I still need to find a way to gently let him go. I am not having him euthanised with a needle to the heart under any circumstances. It's barbaric. How do I help him without causing his last moments to be horrifying and stressful? Is there no way I can insist on his being handled the way other pets are done?

I am furious and frustrated. I fear my boy is suffering and it's hard enough having to make the decision to let him go without this folderol. Please, I don't want to start a bashing thread. I really need a compassionate, sensible answer. I feel like I'm just getting dismissive platitudes from the vets. If this is all any vet does, then I've got no choice. But somehow, I can't imagine that is how every vet would proceed in this situation.

Many thanks for all replies and I'm sorry to be bringing this up in such a short and cross manner, but I am at my wit's end, atm. :cry: Mimzy means the world to me, but I don't know how to make his journey to the Bridge a safe and kind one. :cry:

Oh M :cry:

My Vet anaesthetises the Rabbit first. The drug is given IM, so it can sting for a nano second. Bunny then gradually falls asleep and my Vet gives the PTS drug IV via a marginal ear vein.

If your Vet is unable to get an IV line in then if a GA is given first an intracardiac injection would be fast acting (seconds) and the Bunny would not know a thing about it as they'd already be unconscious.

I am really sorry that you are having to face this heartbreaking decision :cry:
 
Sending lots of hugs. I hope that you can have a sympathetic discussion with your vet and come to an acceptable result.
 
My Vet anaesthetises the Rabbit first. The drug is given IM, so it can sting for a nano second. Bunny then gradually falls asleep and my Vet gives the PTS drug IV via a marginal ear vein.

Yes of course - I forgot that part! If the normal anaesthetic drugs are given initially, bunny will fall gently asleep just like they do in preparation for a surgery and then the rest of the drugs can be given in the ear vein maybe 10-15 minutes later. As they are often very poorly by this point, they usually fall asleep very quickly and gently.
 
Thank you, hb. I'm devastated really. I need so very much to do right by Mimzy, but I have no help for it. I'm both incredibly sad and bursting into tears at inopportune moments, and then livid with anger.

Santa, Omi and Jane, thank you for your replies. I was only told today that there is no other way to do it. I am too angry to call back and argue with them at this time, I'm liable to alienate them completely and then I have no vet to call on for my other pets. At the same time, I'd really like to give them a piece of my mind. :?
I thought as you do, that some kind of anesthetic should come first and probably in the ear. And yet when we had Tooey (cat) put down in May of last year at my old vets, the dr. pushed the solution like there was no tomorrow, no preparatory sedative, and I saw Tooey's eyes bulge, and the fear and pain and she was gone in a second...I was furious! (It was the practice owner to boot...I couldn't believe how inconsiderate she was...my son had no time to stroke her and say goodbye.)

I suppose this vet thinks this is the more humane way rather than prolonging the act, but this is the same one who wouldn't even give him a dental a few months ago that might have made this time more comfortable for Mimzy. He basically told me that because he was ten years old he wouldn't survive the procedure. :?

I have little choice as this is only one of 2 vets in the area and the other is more of a horse doctor than small animal. I'd have to drive serious distance to find anyone else and I'm not willing to do that to Mimzy. He has a hard enough time right now as it is. Travel is oppressive for him.

Just really pee'd off and tired of lip service from 'professionals.' :( If it wouldn't be as traumatic as it had to have been for Pip, I'd just pray for him to pass at home or in his sleep, but I doubt that is going to happen.

Why do all the really terrible things happen to bunnies? :cry: They don't hurt anybody but they really get the short end of the stick when it comes to their healthcare. :evil:
 
Yes of course - I forgot that part! If the normal anaesthetic drugs are given initially, bunny will fall gently asleep just like they do in preparation for a surgery and then the rest of the drugs can be given in the ear vein maybe 10-15 minutes later. As they are often very poorly by this point, they usually fall asleep very quickly and gently.


My vet also gives a sedative first, but for this the rabbit has to leave my arms and I prefer to procedure to be done whilst holding.

Love and hugs to you MM xx
 
Yes of course - I forgot that part! If the normal anaesthetic drugs are given initially, bunny will fall gently asleep just like they do in preparation for a surgery and then the rest of the drugs can be given in the ear vein maybe 10-15 minutes later. As they are often very poorly by this point, they usually fall asleep very quickly and gently.

Also, if the Bunny is very systemically shut down Venipuncture may be especially difficult. So in some circumstances IC administration of the 'PTS' drug may be more appropriate. Not nice to witness, but the Bunny is completely unaware of anything xx
 
How distressing for you,hugs x My small animals,hammies and budgies,get a gas "overdose" to knock then out then pts.x
 
I remember going with a friend to have his dog (Timmy) put to sleep and the vet couldn't find a vein (she was only a tiny Chihuahua - yes she was a girl but was named before my friend realised) and Timmy was getting stressed so I insisted the vet stop and sedate Timmy first which is what was done. She was then totally relaxed and not scared of the final injection.

From memory my buns have been sedated first too and then I hold them and the vet puts the final injection into their ear. I don't think I have ever had a bun injected into the heart.

You are in an incredibly difficult position and I really feel for you and hope that your precious Mimzy is able to pass to the Bridge peacefully.
 
So sorry you find yourself in this position. Depending on the bunny a sedative may be given before euthanasia. The main issue with this is most of these drugs cause hypotension (reduce blood pressure) which makes getting a vein extremely difficult, especially in a poorly bunny. From experience for an intracardiac injection, an anaesthetic is given so a bunny will not be aware of what is happening and it can be so much quicker than spending time trying to locate and hit a constricted vein.

I agree that using a vein is the nicest method as an owner as usually they can go in our arms but the important bit is that your bunny should be comfortable and not feel a thing. Twitching is a normal response for any euthanasia but is not a conscious movement. They don't feel anything.
 
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I'm so sorry you're in this situation.

Having been a VN I've assisted in more than I care to admit. I've even had to carry some out myself (emergency situation, under veterinary direction as per legal requirements).

9/10 we wouldn't use a sedative for cat/dog/rabbit but we knew our clients and their pets incredibly well. We'd take our time and would be slow when injecting. All passed away peacefully with IV administration without sedation.
The ones that did receive sedation were the ones known to be stressed, or aggressive when in practice. So for their comfort and their owners we would sedate prior to attempting.

All hamsters and GP would be PTS via the heart or even kidneys if heart was difficult to locate. However, we would always provide some "sleeping gas" to ensure they were unconscious and wouldn't feel it.

Bunny ears can be difficult to get IV access, especially if not experienced. It sounds like your vet is inexperienced with placing the lines. Essentially, you are the care giver. You're the one who will decide end of life.
When your in a balanced state of mind, I would contact them with what you want to say written down. If you can speak to the vet this would be ideal.

State that as the care giver you would expect sedation to be given prior to any attempts. Explain that you do not give consent to PTS via the heart unless it's a last resort as you're aware this can be painful, and unless the sedation is very deep it's likely bunny will feel it and you don't want that to be the last feeling felt.

A vet will generally always respect your wishes as the care giver, at least in the UK (Obviously I can not speak for abroad).

If this isn't acceptable to them, and you really have no choice but to go to them I'd ask for sedation drug to be given to you that you may given before attending the practice.(Normally 5 or 10 mins before). This may help you to feel better as bun won't be fully aware of what's happening - however being prey it could potentionally cause more stress... this is really where you know bun will come into play as to whether or not you feel is a suitable option.

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What a difficult and upsetting situation to be in. I'm so sorry. Choosing the right time is hard enough but battling your rabbits' corner to have this done in a way that you consider humane is infuriating. What great comprehensive advice Daphnephoebe has given. Use all the info here and present it a clear and level minded way to your vet. Keep questioning their reasoning until you are Ok with the outcome. Fortunately I have only positive experiences (as much as that is ever possible) of having rabbits PTS. Be brave. Wishing you all well and thinking of you x



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Sorry to hear this, my heart really goes out to you. Do you not have a vet that can come to your house and do what needs to be done!! We have that over here (uk) and I've had both my dogs put to sleep in their home on their favourite bed with all the family around them. It's so peaceful and lovely. And the lady that does it is brilliant, gives you as much time as you need to say good bye [emoji22]. I really hope you can work out something that will be easy for you both, hugs to you both


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I'm so sorry you're having to deal with this, what a heartbreaking time for you.

I'm sorry I cannot offer any advice but I'm sending all my love and prayers to help you xxxx
 
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