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Recurring GI stasis - U/D potentially Mega Colon

Compass said:
Just thought I would let you know we took Mr Pickle to a vet today who has RWAF gold recommendation. She did such a thorough examination and unfortunately she noticed three things (our previous vet had not noticed any of these). She found a mass in his lower abdomen near his liver and spleen), she said his inner eyelids were pale and his bowel sounds were significantly louder than normal (like they were trying to compensate). She has suggested he have x-rays and ultrasound under GA next week. At the moment he is eating and pooping but still belly rubbing the ground every so often. We have him booked in next week (just shy of £500! -starting to wish we had insurance now) and then we will decide next steps e.g.surgery or not. It's really tough, he is at least 6 years old and as he seems so well the majority of the time it's going to be a tough decision as to how far we go and risks of surgery if needed. We'll cross that bridge when we come to it. I know are other rabbits have had gas on and off but never to such an extent and certainly not the increasing pattern of occurrence like we are seeing with Mr Pickle. I hope you see a good vet and fingers crossed the outcome is a positive one x
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I hope Mr Pickle's okay. I've only just read this as I've come on to post an update so sorry for the late reply xx
 
Update -

Rocky has been examined by Molly Varga and a CT scan was carried out today. The good news is that his teeth are fine, no bladder sludge or any masses present. However there is something going on which could be mega colon, parts of his rectum / intestine are enlarged. The blood tests have come back and there are a few anomalies.

We're going back in a week's time to discuss next steps.

He's recovered well from the general anaesthetic (used for the CT scan) and came home about an hour ago. He's lively (so lively that he managed to remove the dressing from his ear within minutes of being home :lol: ) and he's eaten some fresh herbs and nibbled on hay.

Thank you everyone for your suggestions and comments, it's comforting to have support from fellow rabbit carers. I'll post again with an update when we know more, in the hope that it may help any other bun that is displaying similar signs. xxx
 
Ponymad21 said:
Have you tried elimination diet? It's what I did with my bun who had intermittent stasis and turns out it was the brambles I was giving him that was causing it
Click to expand...

Thanks for the suggestion I had wondered whether there was something in his diet that might be causing the problem.
I've removed funugreek crunchies as I read of other rabbits suffering with gas from them.
He doesn't have pellets, so his diet is hay, dried herbs and fresh herbs - mint, thyme, rosemary and lavender seem to be his favourites.
There's not much left to take out of his diet now, I asked the vet today whether there's anything I can do on the dietary front and she said not to change anything for the time being.
 
Sarahbun said:
Update -

Rocky has been examined by Molly Varga and a CT scan was carried out today. The good news is that his teeth are fine, no bladder sludge or any masses present. However there is something going on which could be mega colon, parts of his rectum / intestine are enlarged. The blood tests have come back and there are a few anomalies.

We're going back in a week's time to discuss next steps.

He's recovered well from the general anaesthetic (used for the CT scan) and came home about an hour ago. He's lively (so lively that he managed to remove the dressing from his ear within minutes of being home :lol: ) and he's eaten some fresh herbs and nibbled on hay.

Thank you everyone for your suggestions and comments, it's comforting to have support from fellow rabbit carers. I'll post again with an update when we know more, in the hope that it may help any other bun that is displaying similar signs. xxx
Click to expand...

I am glad he came through the GA well and I hope that Molly will be able to identify the problem eventually. It's a very, very unlikely thing but as you feed him forage which I assume you collect yourself then have a read of the following thread. Start at the end and work backwards as the thread is VERY long. This is one of the posts that I especially refer to, Post 1977

thumps_ said:
The pathology results came back tonight.
They are different from what we expected. I have considered them carefully, as a human clinician. I find no fault whatsoever with the vets who have helped us so much, because I've seen this sort of thing happen in humans in the past. Sometimes life does a bummer on everyone!

(My underlining)
"The results show something unprecidented & unexpected.
Thumper had a chronic mycobacterial infection of his intestines & particularly his caecum. This explains his fluctuant & slowly progressive symptoms. However the pattern of inflammation on histopathology is unusual & different to what is seen in wild rabbits with "environmental" mycobacteria."

Basically, Thumper had tuberculosis of his GI tract; but the type is different from the type which can affect wild rabbits.
We now need further tests to identify the type.
There are 2 considerations here.
a) Is there any way we can distinguish between Thumper's unprecidented type of intestinal TB & dysautonomia, to help other rabbits?
b) Typing the mycobacterium is necessary to assess the risk that he may have transmitted it to me or the vets treating him. In fact there remains an outside, very remote possibility that I've given it to him.
Click to expand...

This is the full thread

http://forums.rabbitrehome.org.uk/s...ection-of-GI-tract-presenting-as-dysautonomia

As I said, the likelihood of your Rabbit having a similar problem is remote, I would think. But I just felt that I should mention it and perhaps you could flag it up to Molly. The Vet treating Thumper at the time of his illness was Marie Kubiak. I believe that she and Molly used to work together at one point, so Molly could maybe give Marie a call.
 
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Jack's-Jane said:
I am glad he came through the GA well and I hope that Molly will be able to identify the problem eventually. It's a very, very unlikely thing but as you feed him forage which I assume you collect yourself then have a read of the following thread. Start at the end and work backwards as the thread is VERY long. This is one of the posts that I especially refer to, Post 1977



This is the full thread

http://forums.rabbitrehome.org.uk/s...ection-of-GI-tract-presenting-as-dysautonomia

As I said, the likelihood of your Rabbit having a similar problem is remote, I would think. But I just felt that I should mention it and perhaps you could flag it up to Molly. The Vet treating Thumper at the time of his illness was Marie Kubiak. I believe that she and Molly used to work together at one point, so Molly could maybe give Marie a call.
Click to expand...

Thank you Jane, what an unusual case
 
Sarahbun said:
Update -

Rocky has been examined by Molly Varga and a CT scan was carried out today. The good news is that his teeth are fine, no bladder sludge or any masses present. However there is something going on which could be mega colon, parts of his rectum / intestine are enlarged. The blood tests have come back and there are a few anomalies.

We're going back in a week's time to discuss next steps.

He's recovered well from the general anaesthetic (used for the CT scan) and came home about an hour ago. He's lively (so lively that he managed to remove the dressing from his ear within minutes of being home :lol: ) and he's eaten some fresh herbs and nibbled on hay.

Thank you everyone for your suggestions and comments, it's comforting to have support from fellow rabbit carers. I'll post again with an update when we know more, in the hope that it may help any other bun that is displaying similar signs. xxx
Click to expand...



Hi Sarah :)

I'm so glad he came through the GA and seems to be coping well!

It will be interesting to see what Molly's suggestions are - what a wonderful vet you have there :)
 
MightyMax said:
Hi Sarah :)

I'm so glad he came through the GA and seems to be coping well!

It will be interesting to see what Molly's suggestions are - what a wonderful vet you have there :)
Click to expand...
Hi MightyMax,

I was relieved, this is the second GA that he's had in the last month or so. He's a little trooper.

Yes, Molly is great, she spent quite some time showing me the video of the CT scan, it was fascinating. She's not our regular vet unfortunately, it was a referral and very expensive, so glad I have insurance. We return next week to consider the test results (urine and droppings still being tested) discuss options. :thumb:
 
Sarahbun said:
Yes, Molly is great, she spent quite some time showing me the video of the CT scan, it was fascinating. She's not our regular vet unfortunately, it was a referral and very expensive, so glad I have insurance. We return next week to consider the test results (urine and droppings still being tested) discuss options. :thumb:
Click to expand...

Insurance really is an essential these days isn't it XX
 
Sarahbun said:
Hi MightyMax,

I was relieved, this is the second GA that he's had in the last month or so. He's a little trooper.

Yes, Molly is great, she spent quite some time showing me the video of the CT scan, it was fascinating. She's not our regular vet unfortunately, it was a referral and very expensive, so glad I have insurance. We return next week to consider the test results (urine and droppings still being tested) discuss options. :thumb:
Click to expand...


Two GAs in a month - thats good going!



I'm glad you have insurance too. It's a Godsend. You sometimes don't need to use it for ages, and wonder whether you should bother, and then something like this comes along.

I will be rooting for you both :D
 
U/D
We had a follow up appointment with Molly Varga yesterday. All of the test results are now back and she's happy with them, no signs of infection or inflammation.
The outcome is that it seems Rocky (for whatever/ unknown reason) has from time to time a slow hind gut. We'll probably never determine the cause of the slow gut, a biopsy could reveal whether it's nerve or muscle related, but as this would involve surgery, potential problems with scarring and won't help with treating the symptoms there's no advantage in having this done.
So when it results in GI stasis we'll treat this will gut motility drugs known to help the hind gut (in this case it's going to Cisapride) and painkiller.
The good news is Rocky hasn't had any further stasis and so we'll just make sure that his diet is good, with low risk of stasis (so no known 'gassy' foods or high in carbs/starch) so it's a life of hay, hay, fresh herbs and dried herbs for him. TBH he's always had this diet (and loves his herbs) but has had fenugreek crunchies as a treat (no longer) so I don't think he'll notice a significant difference. I'll be vigilant and try and 'catch' and treat any early signs of GI stasis.
So it's a bit of odd outcome really, it's good that there's nothing more sinister going on, Rocky isn't in pain in between the bouts of stasis, his droppings are normal (no diaorrhea or mucus) but I have to accept that we'll be dealing with stasis from time to time.

Thanks everyone for your help and support, it's meant I could ask questions of Molly that I wouldn't have thought of own my own. I'm confident that we've done the best for Rocky.

Rocky would say thank you too, but he's busy eating hay at the moment :)D :love:) xx
 
Molly is wonderful and we had a similar conclusion with our stasis bun. Cutting out pellets seems to of helped out boy quite a lot but he still has the odd bad day.
Sounds like you have chucked everything at it so fingers crossed the stasis episodes are few and far between!
 
Sarahbun said:
U/D
We had a follow up appointment with Molly Varga yesterday. All of the test results are now back and she's happy with them, no signs of infection or inflammation.
The outcome is that it seems Rocky (for whatever/ unknown reason) has from time to time a slow hind gut. We'll probably never determine the cause of the slow gut, a biopsy could reveal whether it's nerve or muscle related, but as this would involve surgery, potential problems with scarring and won't help with treating the symptoms there's no advantage in having this done.
So when it results in GI stasis we'll treat this will gut motility drugs known to help the hind gut (in this case it's going to Cisapride) and painkiller.
The good news is Rocky hasn't had any further stasis and so we'll just make sure that his diet is good, with low risk of stasis (so no known 'gassy' foods or high in carbs/starch) so it's a life of hay, hay, fresh herbs and dried herbs for him. TBH he's always had this diet (and loves his herbs) but has had fenugreek crunchies as a treat (no longer) so I don't think he'll notice a significant difference. I'll be vigilant and try and 'catch' and treat any early signs of GI stasis.
So it's a bit of odd outcome really, it's good that there's nothing more sinister going on, Rocky isn't in pain in between the bouts of stasis, his droppings are normal (no diaorrhea or mucus) but I have to accept that we'll be dealing with stasis from time to time.

Thanks everyone for your help and support, it's meant I could ask questions of Molly that I wouldn't have thought of own my own. I'm confident that we've done the best for Rocky.

Rocky would say thank you too, but he's busy eating hay at the moment :)D :love:) xx
Click to expand...



This must be a bit of a relief for you Sarah, even though a definitive cause hasn't been identified.

Have you seen this thread, just out of interest?

http://forums.rabbitrehome.org.uk/s...ried-given-your-stasis-prone-buns-tree-leaves


Also, cpayne has to keep an eye on Doughnut and it might be worth giving her PM to alert her to your thread? She may be able to contribute/reassure xx
 
roxyroller88 said:
Molly is wonderful and we had a similar conclusion with our stasis bun. Cutting out pellets seems to of helped out boy quite a lot but he still has the odd bad day.
Sounds like you have chucked everything at it so fingers crossed the stasis episodes are few and far between!
Click to expand...
Thanks, fingers crossed x
 
MightyMax said:
This must be a bit of a relief for you Sarah, even though a definitive cause hasn't been identified.

Have you seen this thread, just out of interest?

http://forums.rabbitrehome.org.uk/s...ried-given-your-stasis-prone-buns-tree-leaves


Also, cpayne has to keep an eye on Doughnut and it might be worth giving her PM to alert her to your thread? She may be able to contribute/reassure xx
Click to expand...
Thanks MM, I've started reading the thread, it's got me fascinated. Rocky's been eating apple tree leaves and branches more recently and they're going down a treat x
 
I am glad Rocky is stable. My Dash can only get hay and greens. His littermate, Evan, does not have the same level of problem Dash has so Even can get a few pellets. However, whenever Dash sees me giving even four or five pellets to Evan, Dash runs begging and gets so excited he crashes into things, only to be denied. Therefore, I can only give Evan a treat when Dash is not in the same room. I wonder if Dash ever notices when Evan has 'pellet breath'! I feel bad when I deny Dash his favorite items; yet I recall how bad I felt when Dash had a serious health crisis within days of my giving him a few pellets and I never knew for sure if I caused him to have so much discomfort/pain.
 
MightyMax said:
This must be a bit of a relief for you Sarah, even though a definitive cause hasn't been identified.

Have you seen this thread, just out of interest?

http://forums.rabbitrehome.org.uk/s...ried-given-your-stasis-prone-buns-tree-leaves


Also, cpayne has to keep an eye on Doughnut and it might be worth giving her PM to alert her to your thread? She may be able to contribute/reassure xx
Click to expand...

So sorry again I haven't logged on. I've PMed you. I just wanted to add that Doughnut's poop is soft quite a bit of the time and is sometimes watery. It isn't diarrhea it's urine, where she has been straining to poop and urinated at the same time. I just wondered if your little one may get the same thing and not to get too alarmed. Doughnut is still normally happy after producing these stools, unlike me who has to clear it up :)

Thanks MM!
 
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There have been many times when my vet and I just treat symptoms without having a definite diagnosis when it does not change the treatment plan. In some cases we could do additional tests to get more information, but it would just stress the bunny and result in high costs what are not warranted. Sending you and Rocky positive vibes for many, many happy times. Should he have another bout of stasis, he likely will recover much quicker now that you have medication and a treatment plan in place.
 
bunny momma said:
There have been many times when my vet and I just treat symptoms without having a definite diagnosis when it does not change the treatment plan. In some cases we could do additional tests to get more information, but it would just stress the bunny and result in high costs what are not warranted. Sending you and Rocky positive vibes for many, many happy times. Should he have another bout of stasis, he likely will recover much quicker now that you have medication and a treatment plan in place.
Click to expand...

I 100% agree with this. One of my mantras regarding any type of diagnostics/invasive treatment is 'just because a procedure may be possible to do it is not always right (for the Rabbit) to do it'.

How is Rocky doing at the moment Sarah ?
 
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