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Thread: Disaster!

  1. #1
    Warren Veteran Vegan_Bunny's Avatar
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    Default Disaster!

    I won't provide background, if you need it ask because this is going to be long anyway.
    Xena and Shadowfax have fallen out big time again. I've posted in this section because I need advice on several different things.
    Yesterday, I put the buns in their run and whilst in there Xena and Shadowfax had a fight. I only saw the fluff and didn't witness the fight but it can't have lasted long because I was checking them frequently.
    I checked over both buns and Fiver and they were all fine but obviously stressed, however they seemed to have gotten over it. I kept an eye on them for the rest of the day and at about 7pm I brought them in.
    After half an hour all hell broke loose. I heard them fighting and ran upstairs. Basically, I tried to give them a chance to make up but Xena is lunging and locking onto Shadowfax. Shadowfax is panicking and running away with Xena still attached. I've checked them over and the only injury I can find is a small bite above Shadowfax's eye but she has extraordinarily thick fur so I can't be sure.
    I made the decision to separate Xena. She's ok but she is definitely not "right". I'm not sure if her neurological problems have worsened and that has caused the fight or if it's just one of those things. Their bond has never been good, Xena is a difficult bunny and has a lot of health issues. Xena is now in a temp cage in the bedroom with Fiver and Shadowfax free ranging. She is obviously not happy about this but tbh hasn't seemed as upset as I thought. I can't attempt a rebond for a week or more. I am busy with work and my parents are away and so I can't watch them and the dogs at the same time. Not to mention I have Honey (horse) 3 days next week. I have no idea what to do. Would you make a better setup in another room for her or keep her in the 4ft cage within sight of Fiver and Shadowfax? She has enough room and hay, water and a fan. She can hop and periscope and flop in all directions. She's not an active bunny (she had e.c and a seizure) so I don't think being caged will bother her that much.
    What do I do long term? I have no idea what to do. I have nowhere to house a single bun and definitely no way I can have 4 buns. Either Xena goes back with S and F or she stays a single bunny...but I have no idea how to do that logistically.
    Does anybody have any advice for housing options or advice on anything really. I'm absolutely beside myself. So gutted.



    Ellie. You'll always be in my heart. I love you.

    Rosie. I can't believe you are no longer at my side. I miss you so much. Wait at the bridge for me.
    Larka. I miss you every moment of every day. You were stolen from me and I will never, ever recover from the heartache of losing you. You should be by side and instead you have gone forever.

  2. #2
    Warren Veteran daphnephoebe's Avatar
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    I don't feel I can offer suitable advice but didn't want to read and run so will bump your post while here x

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  3. #3
    Forum Buddy Zoobec's Avatar
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    I'm so sorry that this has happened I've not had a bond break before so I don't personally know from experience but if Xena has got these health conditions maybe that's why it's caused the problems? If you think they won't rebond and you can't have a fourth rabbit I'm sure as yours are indoor bunnies Xena would be ok on her own, if she's getting plenty of human attention. If you could pick up some puppy panels you could attach them to the cage to give her a decent space, either next to the other 2 if you think she would prefer it, or in another room if she would get more human interaction there.

    Hugs xx

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  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vegan_Bunny View Post
    I won't provide background, if you need it ask because this is going to be long anyway.
    Xena and Shadowfax have fallen out big time again. I've posted in this section because I need advice on several different things.
    Yesterday, I put the buns in their run and whilst in there Xena and Shadowfax had a fight. I only saw the fluff and didn't witness the fight but it can't have lasted long because I was checking them frequently.
    I checked over both buns and Fiver and they were all fine but obviously stressed, however they seemed to have gotten over it. I kept an eye on them for the rest of the day and at about 7pm I brought them in.
    After half an hour all hell broke loose. I heard them fighting and ran upstairs. Basically, I tried to give them a chance to make up but Xena is lunging and locking onto Shadowfax. Shadowfax is panicking and running away with Xena still attached. I've checked them over and the only injury I can find is a small bite above Shadowfax's eye but she has extraordinarily thick fur so I can't be sure.
    I made the decision to separate Xena. She's ok but she is definitely not "right". I'm not sure if her neurological problems have worsened and that has caused the fight or if it's just one of those things. Their bond has never been good, Xena is a difficult bunny and has a lot of health issues. Xena is now in a temp cage in the bedroom with Fiver and Shadowfax free ranging. She is obviously not happy about this but tbh hasn't seemed as upset as I thought. I can't attempt a rebond for a week or more. I am busy with work and my parents are away and so I can't watch them and the dogs at the same time. Not to mention I have Honey (horse) 3 days next week. I have no idea what to do. Would you make a better setup in another room for her or keep her in the 4ft cage within sight of Fiver and Shadowfax? She has enough room and hay, water and a fan. She can hop and periscope and flop in all directions. She's not an active bunny (she had e.c and a seizure) so I don't think being caged will bother her that much.
    What do I do long term? I have no idea what to do. I have nowhere to house a single bun and definitely no way I can have 4 buns. Either Xena goes back with S and F or she stays a single bunny...but I have no idea how to do that logistically.
    Does anybody have any advice for housing options or advice on anything really. I'm absolutely beside myself. So gutted.
    I am wondering if Xena had another seizure and this instigated the initial fight ? The heat could increase the risk of seizures in a Rabbit with a history of having had them. As I am finding out myself today....................

    Personally I would move her to another location so that she can have more room and also so that you dont risk another fight between SF and Fiver (referred aggression) should any 'through the cage bars' hostility arise between X and SF, for whatever reason.

    I'd give both X and SF another thorough check over today as small puncture wounds( the worst for causing abscesses), can be easy to miss when they first occur, but they rapidly harden around the edges so it's easier to feel them, even under thick fur. Any injury near the eye needs to be closely monitored as a scratch to the cornea can cause a nasty infection/ulcer. The actual abrasion may not be obvious until some fluorescein dye is applied.

    Hope that you will be able to get the trio back together again eventually, but for now I think you are wise to keep Xena on her own.

  5. #5
    Warren Scout JuliaW's Avatar
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    Hi.
    Sorry to hear your troubles. I've had to keep rabbits separately in the past due to failure to bond. It's sad but can work, but it will limit the freedom you can give them each. I lost sleep over this for weeks trying everything. There are only so many times/things you can try once a rift occurs without risking serious injury. I adopted a doe from a rescue to bond with a neutered buck I already had and ultimately had to accept they were going to be housed separately. I completely understand that rabbits should be in pairs/groups- but there is the odd one that will not do this possibly due to illness or past trauma and they can live happily solo just with lots of attention.
    Good luck

  6. #6
    Warren Veteran Vegan_Bunny's Avatar
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    Ok. I can only put Xena in the front room for now. I was hoping having her next to the litter tray, not able to attack SF but see her, would help to calm her down but it hasn't. She is quite happy within herself and munching hay and chewing her apple sticks but she raises her tail as soon as SF approaches the cage, which as you know is an aggressive behaviour. SF shows no aggression to Xena but will run away as soon as she raises her tail. SF and F seem happy enough together and SF definitely seems more relaxed not having to worry about Xena.
    I'm worried that Xena won't be well enough to rebond. I'm so worried that any stress will trigger another seizure. She's also got suspected arthritis in her back/hips and I don't think her running about and lunging will do her any good.
    What would you all do in my position? Would you try to rebond?
    My room isn't going to be big enough to divide and F is an absolute ****** for jumping over puppy pen panels but I suppose I could remove my drawers...although where I'd keep my clothes, I have no idea.
    In the meantime, do you think I'd be ok to put F and SF in the outside run and letting Xena have run of the bedroom for a while? It'd only be during the day and I know it's not ideal but means Xena gets some time out of her cage. SF and F have shown no aggression towards each other but I am worried it might spark something off. I'd wait until later with it being so warm, obviously.
    Thoughts?

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vegan_Bunny View Post
    Ok. I can only put Xena in the front room for now. I was hoping having her next to the litter tray, not able to attack SF but see her, would help to calm her down but it hasn't. She is quite happy within herself and munching hay and chewing her apple sticks but she raises her tail as soon as SF approaches the cage, which as you know is an aggressive behaviour. SF shows no aggression to Xena but will run away as soon as she raises her tail. SF and F seem happy enough together and SF definitely seems more relaxed not having to worry about Xena.
    I'm worried that Xena won't be well enough to rebond. I'm so worried that any stress will trigger another seizure. She's also got suspected arthritis in her back/hips and I don't think her running about and lunging will do her any good.
    What would you all do in my position? Would you try to rebond?
    My room isn't going to be big enough to divide and F is an absolute ****** for jumping over puppy pen panels but I suppose I could remove my drawers...although where I'd keep my clothes, I have no idea.
    In the meantime, do you think I'd be ok to put F and SF in the outside run and letting Xena have run of the bedroom for a while? It'd only be during the day and I know it's not ideal but means Xena gets some time out of her cage. SF and F have shown no aggression towards each other but I am worried it might spark something off. I'd wait until later with it being so warm, obviously.
    Thoughts?
    I think it may be risky to let X roam around the room that F+SF will come back into. It may cause some issues between the pair. Is there another room that X could be moved to whereby you could incorporate a pen attached to the cage ? But I guess that with the dogs too that may be tricky

    What about a permanent outdoor set-up for F+SF. Then X could have free range of your room 24/7. You might be able to pick up a bargain shed from Ebay.

  8. #8
    Warren Veteran Vegan_Bunny's Avatar
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    They have a 6x3x3ft hutch with attached 6x6ft run but they can't stay in that permanently. F has severe spondylosis (he's 9, nearly 10) and so can't stay outside permanently anyway. Not to mention that I have a very healthy population of foxes that use my garden every night.
    The only room available to move Xena into is the front room but that is my Mam's "best room" and she will not be able to go in there for long at all. I have let Fiver in Xena's cage to see her but tbh Xena just wants out and is not bothered by Fiver and he just wants her hay. I have two dog crates that I am not currently using and could put Xena in those today if need be (if I can figure out how to attach them) but she won't be able to stay in there after my Mam gets home. Stupidly, although that room is never used, my Mam still won't let me fill it with animals. What a waste of space! But on a serious note she can go in there temporarily but it means she will pretty much be alone until my parents are back because the dogs will start playing up if I leave them too long.
    Do you think I've done the right thing taking Xena out and leaving SF? Should I maybe remove SF and leave Xena with Fiver? I feel awful because Xena was originally bonded with Fiver...although she bullied him, they spend more time together..however that could just be because Xena doesn't like Fiver spending time with SF.

  9. #9
    Warren Veteran Vegan_Bunny's Avatar
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    Hi guys. Just an update. My friend has just lent me her massive 6ft indoor cage that she used to have piggies in. I can't attach a pic since I don't have an account with an image hosting site but already she looks so much happier. She has enough room for a stool (she loves sitting under it) a litter tray, a bowl of water and lots of toys and apple sticks to gnaw on. She is now in my front room which is good because it's the coolest room of the house. I feel less stressed about her being caged now. My same friend also lent me a bunch of c&c panels so I can make a pen if need be. The only issue is that she's never been good with using the litter tray so before I extend her cage, I'll need to figure out how to cover the carpet. It's beige, which doesn't help. I'll probably wait until my parents are home before extending it. Problem is that my parents often have friends staying over in that room and there'll be no way the bed will pull out with that cage in...let alone with an attached pen and there's nowhere else she can go. Not sure what to do long term but I'm really reluctant to try a rebond. Do you think it's worth a try? She's still flying at SF at every opportunity.

  10. #10
    Warren Veteran joey&boo's Avatar
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    I think as they all sound happy & settled at the moment I'd leave them as they are & try (but probably fail) to not worry about what will happen when you have overnight visitors / your mum gets fed up & deal with that as it arises - as you know we are always having to think on our feet as bunny owners. I don't think I'd be tempted to rebond - it doesn't sound like they are in a good place for it but of course you know your bunnies best.

    With covering the carpet I may have an idea. My buns were on bare floorboards which Mouse doesn't like (awaiting installation of proper floor they won't like either). Ran out of rugs & lino so I bought a cotton picnic blanket from Aldi as an interim solution. Its about 6ft & foil material backed so no moisture goes through - I've knocked countless drinks over on it. It also dries really quick

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