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Thread: E-cuniculi infection - Flossie

  1. #1
    Mama Doe Fionabun's Avatar
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    Default E-cuniculi infection - Flossie

    Hello all,

    I'm an old timer here, though no longer post frequently. I hope everyone is well and hello to all, especially if anyone remembers me from 2007-ish (*gulp*)

    My Flossie (nearly 10) appears to have full blown EC infection. It started 6 days ago with unilateral hind leg weakness, but now both legs look weak and she's toppling over constantly. I've seen our vet and we've started her on anti-inflammatories and Panacur for 28 days (arguably for the foreseeable). She is a lion head lop mix, so we've lightly shaved her fluffy bum area and I'm helping keep it clean and also preventing urine scalding with barrier cream. Her bunny friend, George, is now also on Panacur. I realise hygiene is a must to manage these urine spores etc.

    6 days in, things seem worse: she can't right herself when she topples and waits on me to come to fix her. She still has an excellent appetite and is munching anything and everything in sight, so this is reassuring, but her quality of life is poor in other ways. I've increased water availability all around the big hutch/run, though I'm doubtful she's reaching it, so I've been syringing fluids in when I can, and dousing her veg/herb treats in water too.

    Have I simply forgotten how dreadful EC is and how it looks? I'm struggling terribly with the idea that she can't be independent and that it seems to be worsening? Is this to be expected and is there anything else I can do?

    Fiona
    Nell, Sumi and Archie

    Rest in peace Jess, Marcy and Clover -much loved

  2. #2
    Wise Old Thumper
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fionabun View Post
    Hello all,

    I'm an old timer here, though no longer post frequently. I hope everyone is well and hello to all, especially if anyone remembers me from 2007-ish (*gulp*)

    My Flossie (nearly 10) appears to have full blown EC infection. It started 6 days ago with unilateral hind leg weakness, but now both legs look weak and she's toppling over constantly. I've seen our vet and we've started her on anti-inflammatories and Panacur for 28 days (arguably for the foreseeable). She is a lion head lop mix, so we've lightly shaved her fluffy bum area and I'm helping keep it clean and also preventing urine scalding with barrier cream. Her bunny friend, George, is now also on Panacur. I realise hygiene is a must to manage these urine spores etc.

    6 days in, things seem worse: she can't right herself when she topples and waits on me to come to fix her. She still has an excellent appetite and is munching anything and everything in sight, so this is reassuring, but her quality of life is poor in other ways. I've increased water availability all around the big hutch/run, though I'm doubtful she's reaching it, so I've been syringing fluids in when I can, and dousing her veg/herb treats in water too.

    Have I simply forgotten how dreadful EC is and how it looks? I'm struggling terribly with the idea that she can't be independent and that it seems to be worsening? Is this to be expected and is there anything else I can do?

    Fiona
    Hello Fiona

    Has the Vet ruled out a spinal injury/disc prolapse/arthritis etc ? Is Flossie showing any other neurological symptoms eg head tilt, nystagmus (flicking eyes) ?

    Whilst EC is of course a possibility I am wondering if there may be another explanation for Flossie's hind leg paresis

    http://www.medirabbit.com/EN/Neurolo...ls/paresis.htm

    Whilst the use of corticosteroids in Rabbits is controversial, there are some circumstances in which they can be of benefit, despite the potential risks (lowering of immune system, gastric ulceration, liver damage). Perhaps this is something to discuss with your Vet ?

    http://wildpro.twycrosszoo.org/S/00C...amethasone.htm

    http://wildpro.twycrosszoo.org/S/00C...ednisolone.htm

    I am sorry to hear that Flossie is struggling now and I hope that her condition can improve sufficiently to enable her to have a better quality of life for her remaining time x

  3. #3
    Mama Doe
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    EC is a rollercoaster ride. You are doing all the right things. Just keep going. Things should improve. I know it seems awful at the moment, but she is still mobile and managing to eat normally, which makes things a whole lot easier to manage. You could reduce her space a bit if she can't get up when she topples. Maybe using towels or puppy pads (or both) in 'her' area will keep her drier, cleaner, and more comfortable. Something like an underbed storage box or the base of an indoor 'rabbit cage' would be useful as her base, but still allow George access to her.

    EC spores are shed in urine, so it is important to keep to a cleaning routine to prevent reinfection. Deep clean on days 21 and 28 of Panacur treatment is recommended.

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    Wise Old Thumper SarahP's Avatar
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    *waves* Really sorry to hear about Flossie. Hope you can get some improvement. x
    Sarah.

    RIP Dusty and Clover xxx
    Harry hamster

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    Mama Doe roxyroller88's Avatar
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    If she is falling over a lot then you could reduce her space down. You can also roll up towels/blankets and place them around the edges to act as bumpers. Flooring is also really important, so avoid anything slippy, uneven, soft and squishy. You want it to be solid and even but also something that she can grip to, carpet offcuts/rugs are perfect.
    I'm fundraising for Rabbit Rescue North West

    https://www.justgiving.com/crowdfunding/rrnw

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    Wise Old Thumper MightyMax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fionabun View Post
    Hello all,

    I'm an old timer here, though no longer post frequently. I hope everyone is well and hello to all, especially if anyone remembers me from 2007-ish (*gulp*)

    My Flossie (nearly 10) appears to have full blown EC infection. It started 6 days ago with unilateral hind leg weakness, but now both legs look weak and she's toppling over constantly. I've seen our vet and we've started her on anti-inflammatories and Panacur for 28 days (arguably for the foreseeable). She is a lion head lop mix, so we've lightly shaved her fluffy bum area and I'm helping keep it clean and also preventing urine scalding with barrier cream. Her bunny friend, George, is now also on Panacur. I realise hygiene is a must to manage these urine spores etc.

    6 days in, things seem worse: she can't right herself when she topples and waits on me to come to fix her. She still has an excellent appetite and is munching anything and everything in sight, so this is reassuring, but her quality of life is poor in other ways. I've increased water availability all around the big hutch/run, though I'm doubtful she's reaching it, so I've been syringing fluids in when I can, and dousing her veg/herb treats in water too.

    Have I simply forgotten how dreadful EC is and how it looks? I'm struggling terribly with the idea that she can't be independent and that it seems to be worsening? Is this to be expected and is there anything else I can do?

    Fiona

    Hi there Fiona, yes I remember you

    Sorry to heat about Flossie.

    How has the EC been diagnosed? I say this because there are several conditions that mimic the hind leg paresis that you're seeing.

    http://www.bio.miami.edu/hare/paresis.html

    http://rabbit.org/hind-limb-weakness-in-the-rabbit/

    http://www.medirabbit.com/EN/Neurolo...ls/paresis.htm


    It could be arthritis or spinal damage in some way. One of my rabbits had a burst intervertebral disc which came up with exactly the symptoms you're describing.

    Have you got a very savvy vet who can diagnose the issue or maybe do some X-rays if it's possible to see what's going on?

  7. #7
    Mama Doe Fionabun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack's-Jane View Post
    Hello Fiona

    Has the Vet ruled out a spinal injury/disc prolapse/arthritis etc ? Is Flossie showing any other neurological symptoms eg head tilt, nystagmus (flicking eyes) ?

    Whilst EC is of course a possibility I am wondering if there may be another explanation for Flossie's hind leg paresis

    http://www.medirabbit.com/EN/Neurolo...ls/paresis.htm

    Whilst the use of corticosteroids in Rabbits is controversial, there are some circumstances in which they can be of benefit, despite the potential risks (lowering of immune system, gastric ulceration, liver damage). Perhaps this is something to discuss with your Vet ?

    http://wildpro.twycrosszoo.org/S/00C...amethasone.htm

    http://wildpro.twycrosszoo.org/S/00C...ednisolone.htm

    I am sorry to hear that Flossie is struggling now and I hope that her condition can improve sufficiently to enable her to have a better quality of life for her remaining time x
    Hi Jane, hope you are well. She has head tilt and some tremors & urinary incontinence , so we're both thinking it's EC. I won't rule out investigations for disc collapse etc (and other causes) , though right now, I'm worried about her being sedated etc. The only recent change is her chest sounding a bit rattly/snuffly, so I'm worried she has something systemic going on. She has started on antibiotics For this. It's all a bit unclear and we're going back tomorrow morning. She's comfortable at the moment, munching her herbs and grass as normal and I've given her a small amount of oral syringed fluids and all her meds. I put a towel under her back end on the grass early to help her mobility,but she was toppling still. She's a lovely bunny and I fear I'm very close to the delicate decision of what her life is now like, especially as an older bun, and whether her suffering is too much.

  8. #8
    Mama Doe Fionabun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shimmer View Post
    EC is a rollercoaster ride. You are doing all the right things. Just keep going. Things should improve. I know it seems awful at the moment, but she is still mobile and managing to eat normally, which makes things a whole lot easier to manage. You could reduce her space a bit if she can't get up when she topples. Maybe using towels or puppy pads (or both) in 'her' area will keep her drier, cleaner, and more comfortable. Something like an underbed storage box or the base of an indoor 'rabbit cage' would be useful as her base, but still allow George access to her.

    EC spores are shed in urine, so it is important to keep to a cleaning routine to prevent reinfection. Deep clean on days 21 and 28 of Panacur treatment is recommended.
    Thank you. She's not particularly mobile right now I'm afraid, but eating everything in site. She's in a big large plastic dog bed in the large hutch and is sticking to this. Her little friend hops over to visit from time to time but is generally leaving her be. Thank you for your reply.

  9. #9
    Mama Doe Fionabun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SarahP View Post
    *waves* Really sorry to hear about Flossie. Hope you can get some improvement. x
    Hi Sarah. Thank you. She's a gorgeous girl and reminds me so much in nature of my gorgeous Nell and Sumi. Except with a hair do like Bonnie Tyler

  10. #10
    Mama Doe Fionabun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MightyMax View Post
    Hi there Fiona, yes I remember you

    Sorry to heat about Flossie.

    How has the EC been diagnosed? I say this because there are several conditions that mimic the hind leg paresis that you're seeing.

    http://www.bio.miami.edu/hare/paresis.html

    http://rabbit.org/hind-limb-weakness-in-the-rabbit/

    http://www.medirabbit.com/EN/Neurolo...ls/paresis.htm


    It could be arthritis or spinal damage in some way. One of my rabbits had a burst intervertebral disc which came up with exactly the symptoms you're describing.

    Have you got a very savvy vet who can diagnose the issue or maybe do some X-rays if it's possible to see what's going on?
    Hi MightyMax, thanks for your reply. From my own experience, I'm pretty convinced it's EC, but realise I could be wrong. I can arrange investigations though she's sounding quite snuffly (and on abx) so worried about what this entails. I will speak to my vet tomorrow morning . What was the outcome and treatment for your little friend with the burst intervertebral disc, if you don't mind me asking?

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