Boy trouble

Truffpuff said:

That's the thing, I think too much knowledge can be a burden!

Aww that's so sweet that she feels so much safer with you there. Luckily it was quite a short storm so they didn't get too stressed by it x

Click to expand...

MightyMax said:

So sorry to hear about poor Truffle!

I hope things settle down quickly and he's his normal self v soon.

How's he feeling now? Any improvement? x

Click to expand...

Truffpuff said:

Thank you. I was really worried this morning he wasn't himself at all, I could just see it in his eyes.

Since a few hours after our vet trip and his first lot of Zantac meds he has really perked back up, he's done some poops and even tucked into his veggies at dinner time. The vet said even if he shows improvement to give the Zantac twice a day for a few days....God knows how when he's getting bouncy again haha.

After he got over his initial strop of being taken to the vet, thumping a bit and bit Luther on the nose once I feel like they have settled back into the swing of things, so hopefully as Truffle gets better this will continue.

Bunnies do make you worry! X

Click to expand...

Truffpuff said:

Myself and Sam are considering starting to put Luther and Truffle together. They both seem to be getting to a bit of a breaking point being restricted to half the room each, Luther just wants to destroy everything like eatung my bookcase and my poor carpet now has a chunk missing in the doorway, he also keeps bar biting out of frustration because I think he's become quite smitten with Truffle and likes to follow him along the barrier and copy him. Truffle is being slightly more behaved but will find any carpet areas Luther has started and continue with his own handy work, he also is biting things and not resting as much as he used to.

Luther seems quite smitten with Truffle but Truffle was always the one who I knew needed the most work/time. They have had good interactions through the bars nosing each other and sniffing although nips have occurred occasionally still too, but I wonder if that's because there is no clear hierarchy yet.

We would start with a few seconds to a min and go from there. But I don't want to jump the gun if it's not time and it's just us getting annoyed.... xx

Click to expand...

Truffpuff said:

Myself and Sam are considering starting to put Luther and Truffle together. They both seem to be getting to a bit of a breaking point being restricted to half the room each, Luther just wants to destroy everything like eatung my bookcase and my poor carpet now has a chunk missing in the doorway, he also keeps bar biting out of frustration because I think he's become quite smitten with Truffle and likes to follow him along the barrier and copy him. Truffle is being slightly more behaved but will find any carpet areas Luther has started and continue with his own handy work, he also is biting things and not resting as much as he used to.

Luther seems quite smitten with Truffle but Truffle was always the one who I knew needed the most work/time. They have had good interactions through the bars nosing each other and sniffing although nips have occurred occasionally still too, but I wonder if that's because there is no clear hierarchy yet.

We would start with a few seconds to a min and go from there. But I don't want to jump the gun if it's not time and it's just us getting annoyed.... xx

Click to expand...

daphnephoebe said:

Sorry I've missed this until now.

It sounds like starting bonding would be a good option for them now x

Sent from my SM-G903F using Tapatalk

Click to expand...

daphnephoebe said:

It sounds amazing. I think the bond will progress well just from this initial meeting.

It's important not to separate them immediately after any fight they might have unless one needs immediate veterinary attention x

Sent from my SM-G903F using Tapatalk

Click to expand...

Truffpuff said:

Ah I'm so glad you think so! We felt so positive after.

Oh ok, thank you. Is that because your supposed to end on a positive? I did wonder how that worked if they had a bit of a tiff or aggression etc....do you just wait for it to stop and separate or to wait until something positive to happen after then separate?
Hopefully it won't come to it.

We thought to carry on for a short time once a day this week then try extending the time. X

Click to expand...

Truffpuff said:

Ah I'm so glad you think so! We felt so positive after.

Oh ok, thank you. Is that because your supposed to end on a positive? I did wonder how that worked if they had a bit of a tiff or aggression etc....do you just wait for it to stop and separate or to wait until something positive to happen after then separate?
Hopefully it won't come to it.

We thought to carry on for a short time once a day this week then try extending the time. X

Click to expand...

daphnephoebe said:

I always prefer to end on a positive. It just means they don't associate each other with something negative such as fighting if it's ended on a positive.
If there is dominance behaviours I leave them to it. If it's fighting behaviour I separate them for a few moments (just with a towel or something to stop the fight) then put them back together for a few moments and end after they have a positive interaction.

Sent from my SM-G903F using Tapatalk

Click to expand...

MightyMax said:

Well done

Click to expand...

Truffpuff said:

Aahh I see. Fab, thank you I will bare that in mind because I think your totally right and ending positively will hopefully help towards the bond getting closer.

Thank you for your help. Hopefully it goes well with round 2 tonight x

Click to expand...

Truffpuff said:

Ok. So today has not gone well.

I was followin my other half home after we met to go to the gym and he had someone hit his car. A long drawn out episode of changing details moving the cars etc etc. Cut to getting home late, the cats dinners are an hour and a half late, so is the bunnies.

I did the cats and our dinner while Sam sorted insurance out. Then we went up to let the rabbit's meet. However we didn't have time to lure them in the cardboard boxes like yesterday so we put Luther over to Truffles side.

Truffle rushed over to him then started nipping at Luther's face which then escalated to both going at each other. We let it happen at first because we assumed it was to establish dominance. At one point I'm pretty sure Truffle put his head under Luther's chin but was annoyed Luther didn't react. Truffle just then kept chasing, rushing and biting at Luther, then I think (but I'm not certain) Truffle tried to get behind Luther possibly to mount him....but Luther kept reaching round and biting Truffle back which ended up in them both just locking on to each other. Mean while during the chasing and attacking Truffle was doing we tried to get them apart, finally after the locking incident Sam got Luther and put him back on his current side.
Immediately after on their own sides they were fine with each other sniffing through the bars.

We then left them with their dinners.

I think it was all our fault from either not doing the box routine that worked yesterday or it was because it was past dinner time...or they felt my emotions from the car incident I don't know. But there was no blood only a bit of fur pulling but it was so hard to try and end on a positive when Truffle was being relentless. Feeling really emotional about it all and I hope we haven't ruined it, I knew we should have just not done it today :-(

Sorry for the long rant!

Click to expand...

Monty's Human said:

Be gentle with yourself! You need to look after you and OH for now, which of course means the pesky bunnies will be as awful as possible - alas, that's just rabbits! There's honestly nothing to worry about, though. We did the short bond, where we put them together and just went for it, and we had loads of up to five minutes of going for each other. Once they're locking together, it is a good idea to step in, but to be honest I'd be prepared for a lot chasing/nipping/fur-pulling to begin with. Even now Ossie will occasionally nip out at Monty if she's in a bad mood, and we very recently had an isolated incident of Monty humping - what I've noticed from bonding my pair is they've both got better at "bearing with each other". I'm making it sound horribly like a human relationship, but they have both got used to each other and no longer seem to take it personally if one is being bad-tempered - now if Ossie nips/Monty humps, the other will just saunter off and wait to be made up to, they don't react aggressively to it. So part of leaving them is to let them get to understand each other and learn not to react, I think.

That said, if you are stressed, they may be too, but honestly don't blame yourself. This all sounds like perfectly normal bonding behaviour! (Or my pair were particularly vicious, but they came through just fine all the same :lol Certainly you've said nothing which mine haven't been through a hundred times, in itself there's no reason to think this hasn't strengthened more than damaged the bond (I think). One thing to perhaps try if you think they're ready would be sharing pellets/veg. If you can scatter to prevent fighting over a bowl or hand, you may find that they share feeding time quite happily. It was one of the first things mine did together (a bit of shoving and pushing the first couple of times, but both were far more interested in getting pellets than actually starting something) and it made it much easier after a fight or a row to bring them together again. We kept some sugary-y treat-y things on hand (naughty bunny owners!) and once they'd settled down after a row we'd scatter three or four just to give them something interesting to do together so they'd make it back up (not straight after, I didn't want them thinking that fighting meant getting treats). You'll be able to read the situation best, but if you think they might share, it might be worth giving it a go - you can always go back to feeding individually then try again later, but if they will share nice food, it's a great help for the poor humans trying to make them be friends!

Click to expand...

Truffpuff said:

Thank you so much for your reply I feel so much better now. I was so distraught last night thinking we had really messed up.

So when Truffle is just rushing at Luther and nipping/biting we should leave them to it unless blood or locking on occurs? To be honest I sprayed him with water to get him to stop a bit and I think it made it worse and he acted out more so I will try to do less next time.

They still this morning are nosing through the barrier and sniffing each other and sitting near each other so I think they are still ok with each other in general thank God. It's so hard as the "mum" to know when to interrupt because I'm not one for violence anyway lol.

You know while I was laying awake not getting much sleep last night I was thinking about just that too, getting an apple from the garden cutting it up with some nana and other tasty things and putting that in a line along the middle of one of the sides so they might think about tasty things more than just each other when we try tonight. I think until Luther bows down to Truffle it's not going to stop and because Luther was bullied by bunnies on two occasions where he was before I took him away, I thought he'd be more submissive.

Thank you for your help, I was feeling terrible about it all! Xx

Click to expand...

Monty's Human said:

No worries! I hated bonding my pair, they were so aggressive to begin with, and it really does look horribly violent to us. But they don't mind in the slightest! If it's just lunging/nipping and Luther doesn't mind, then I would leave be. The first couple of days of our bond were really funny; Ossie would take up in a corner and Monty would keep approaching for a groom only to be nipped at, and every time he crawled up he had this really resigned look of "I suppose I have to keep trying!" One of the things you'll learn instinctively is when to leave them and when it's going to escalate and you need to step in, so don't worry about how you're doing It's better to relax and let them work it out, but obviously the main thing is to avoid injury, so erring on the side of caution literally can't hurt. You may also find that it gets easier to control them. I can occasionally (only occasionally, but I like to claim credit!) quell my two just by saying something in my deep, telling-off voice. The other night they were getting too excitable and climbing all over each other and I could see it tipping towards falling out, and a simple "Oi! Yeah, I'm watching you!" from the sofa distracted them enough to calm down. Also don't be worried if it does break out into a fight that they'll then hate each other. Persistent fighting is bad, but we had to stay with ours for the first two days because whenever they were awake there was a constant tension, nipping, chasing, humping. It didn't seem to be a sign of dislike for them, and they (almost) couldn't be better friends now, so they're seeing this completely differently to you. I also expected Ossie to be the more aggressive of the two because she's twice Monty's size, but in fact she just nipped, whereas Monty was usually the aggressive bunny. Being able to look back on it, him humping away at her as violently as he could with her, being huge, running round with him just on her back like a jockey, and one of us chasing round after them trying to break it up was really quite funny :lol: At some point, Luther might become a bit aggressive back, but again, if it's nothing too serious I would leave be and just keep an eye on it.

Good luck with the food! I hope they can share - as I say, there's all sorts of helpful things you can do once they'll eat together And keep posting and being worried and frustrated; it's all part of the bond, and better to post here than to let them know. I swear they'd play up just to annoy you

Click to expand...

Truffpuff said:

Ok. So today has not gone well.

I was followin my other half home after we met to go to the gym and he had someone hit his car. A long drawn out episode of changing details moving the cars etc etc. Cut to getting home late, the cats dinners are an hour and a half late, so is the bunnies.

I did the cats and our dinner while Sam sorted insurance out. Then we went up to let the rabbit's meet. However we didn't have time to lure them in the cardboard boxes like yesterday so we put Luther over to Truffles side.

Truffle rushed over to him then started nipping at Luther's face which then escalated to both going at each other. We let it happen at first because we assumed it was to establish dominance. At one point I'm pretty sure Truffle put his head under Luther's chin but was annoyed Luther didn't react. Truffle just then kept chasing, rushing and biting at Luther, then I think (but I'm not certain) Truffle tried to get behind Luther possibly to mount him....but Luther kept reaching round and biting Truffle back which ended up in them both just locking on to each other. Mean while during the chasing and attacking Truffle was doing we tried to get them apart, finally after the locking incident Sam got Luther and put him back on his current side.
Immediately after on their own sides they were fine with each other sniffing through the bars.

We then left them with their dinners.

I think it was all our fault from either not doing the box routine that worked yesterday or it was because it was past dinner time...or they felt my emotions from the car incident I don't know. But there was no blood only a bit of fur pulling but it was so hard to try and end on a positive when Truffle was being relentless. Feeling really emotional about it all and I hope we haven't ruined it, I knew we should have just not done it today :-(

Sorry for the long rant!

Click to expand...