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gut stasis

rosaleen

Warren Scout
hi :wave:
I really hope you can help me. I'e just read some posts from 2009 and 2010 from members who took on medicating their rabbits which had sporadic gut stasis problems. One, without a consultation with their vet and 1 ringing the vet and being advised that he/she trusted the judgement of the owner.
This intermittent problem is the same as my two rabbits. It was a bit of a relief to read these posts and find this type of recurrence is not that unusual .
Mine have a good diet One eggcupful of pellets spread throughout the day between them, greens sprouts kale in moderation, apple leaves and branches and fresh grass(thought I've now just read on this forum that grass can cause gas) and of course lots and lots of hay.
One of my two (not yet 100% sure which -but see below- as they are free roaming house rabbits ) is now producing smaller and smaller pellets. Appetite in both looks good. I've kept house rabbits for 12 years and don't think I have any potential gut stasis booby traps in my home.
Have any other members 'taken on' this approach,diagnosing gut stasis themselves based on their experiences? And if so what has been the situation with their vet providing the necessary meds??
I think it is my rabbit BeBe who has the current problem. He is a rescued rabbit and has always been a very timid nervous little soul, though not nearly as bad as when she first came to me in Nov 2015. As a result, vet visits are very traumatic for her. She has had two previous episodes, in the last 9 months.
On neither occasion could the vet determine whether or not she had an actual blockage, but leant towards there not being one.
Harriet,his companion rabbit,rescued at the same time, has had 3 gut stasis episodes over the same period. Only one of my other long lived rabbits ever had one episode.
Any help would be appreciated. I have given BeBe one dose of Emeprid today,. It was left over from a previous occasion
 
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hi :wave:
I really hope you can help me. I'e just read some posts from 2009 and 2010 from members who took on medicating their rabbits which had sporadic gut stasis problems. One, without a consultation with their vet and 1 ringing the vet and being advised that he/she trusted the judgement of the owner.
This intermittent problem is the same as my two rabbits. It was a bit of a relief to read these posts and find this type of recurrence is not that unusual .
Mine have a good diet One eggcupful of pellets spread throughout the day between them, greens sprouts kale in moderation, apple leaves and branches and fresh grass(thought I've now just read on this forum that grass can cause gas) and of course lots and lots of hay.
One of my two (not yet 100% sure which -but see below- as they are free roaming house rabbits ) is now producing smaller and smaller pellets. Appetite in both looks good. I've kept house rabbits for 12 years and don't think I have any potential gut stasis booby traps in my home.
Have any other members 'taken on' this approach,diagnosing gut stasis themselves based on their experiences? And if so what has been the situation with their vet providing the necessary meds??
I think it is my rabbit BeBe who has the current problem. He is a rescued rabbit and has always been a very timid nervous little soul, though not nearly as bad as when she first came to me in Nov 2015. As a result, vet visits are very traumatic for her. She has had two previous episodes, in the last 9 months.
On neither occasion could the vet determine whether or not she had an actual blockage, but leant towards there not being one.
Harriet,his companion rabbit,rescued at the same time, has had 3 gut stasis episodes over the same period. Only one of my other long lived rabbits ever had one episode.
Any help would be appreciated. I have given BeBe one dose of Emeprid today,. It was left over from a previous occasion

Hello

Unless you are able to ascertain whether or not the Rabbit has an obstruction giving prokinetics (eg Emeprid) could actually do a lot more harm than good. I dont know if you are able to palpate a Rabbit's abdomen and know what you are feeling- what is normal and what is abnormal ? Also, to listen to the abdomen using a stethoscope to check for gut sounds in all 4 quadrants. Other diagnostics may also be needed eg a blood glucose test. A significantly elevated blood glucose reading is an indicator of an obstruction- a surgical emergency. Also, gut stasis is often a secondary symptom of another problem, eg a Dental problem. So a Rabbit who has gut stasis also needs a Dental examination. Other possible causes of pain also need to be investigated. A Rabbit in pain for whatever reason is unlikely to eat. Thus resulting in reduced gut motility/gut stasis.

As I said, I dont know your level of experience with regards to all of this, but for many Pet Rabbit owners it is always better to consult a Vet before administering any medication.

These links may be useful to read :

http://anyflip.com/dvpt/hzvv

http://rabbitwelfare.co.uk/pdfs/ROWinter10p7.pdf

https://rabbitwelfare.co.uk/rabbit-health/emergencies/
 
hi :wave:
I really hope you can help me. I'e just read some posts from 2009 and 2010 from members who took on medicating their rabbits which had sporadic gut stasis problems. One, without a consultation with their vet and 1 ringing the vet and being advised that he/she trusted the judgement of the owner.
This intermittent problem is the same as my two rabbits. It was a bit of a relief to read these posts and find this type of recurrence is not that unusual .
Mine have a good diet One eggcupful of pellets spread throughout the day between them, greens sprouts kale in moderation, apple leaves and branches and fresh grass(thought I've now just read on this forum that grass can cause gas) and of course lots and lots of hay.
One of my two (not yet 100% sure which -but see below- as they are free roaming house rabbits ) is now producing smaller and smaller pellets. Appetite in both looks good. I've kept house rabbits for 12 years and don't think I have any potential gut stasis booby traps in my home.
Have any other members 'taken on' this approach,diagnosing gut stasis themselves based on their experiences? And if so what has been the situation with their vet providing the necessary meds??
I think it is my rabbit BeBe who has the current problem. He is a rescued rabbit and has always been a very timid nervous little soul, though not nearly as bad as when she first came to me in Nov 2015. As a result, vet visits are very traumatic for her. She has had two previous episodes, in the last 9 months.
On neither occasion could the vet determine whether or not she had an actual blockage, but leant towards there not being one.
Harriet,his companion rabbit,rescued at the same time, has had 3 gut stasis episodes over the same period. Only one of my other long lived rabbits ever had one episode.
Any help would be appreciated. I have given BeBe one dose of Emeprid today,. It was left over from a previous occasion


Hi Rosaleen :wave:

It's really difficult for anyone to advise you. You obviously have a lot of knowledge and experience, but it would really require a vet's visit in order to determine whether there's a blockage or not. Blood glucose level is a good indicator of that:

Taken from Lecture Notes emailed to me by Frances Harcourt Brown

Blood glucose is measured in mmol/ml (millimoles/litre)

Normal: 4-8 mmol/ml

2-4 mmol/ltr – needs food – rabbit is experiencing gut stasis
If less that 2 mmol/ltr, call vet

8-15 mmol/ltr Rabbit is stressed, but can stay at home
More than 15mmol/ltr, less than 20 – Call vet, start to worry…
More than 20 mmol/ltr, needs surgery.


There are certainly people on this Forum who have a blood test kit and test their own rabbits prior to deciding whether they need a vet visit or not.

The other thing would be taking the temperature. Again, some people are happy doing this and others aren't. Both these things, as well as palpating a rabbit's abdomen, would be things I would expect a vet to do for my rabbit during a consultation.

Infacol is also a very good thing to use, whether or not there is a blockage. It will help gas to form into one big bubble and pass more easily. I don't know whether you have it, or have used it?

http://www.infacol.co.uk

There's some more reading about the condition here:

http://anyflip.com/dvpt/hzvv/basic

http://www.bunnylu.org/bloat.php

http://rabbit.org/gastrointestinal-stasis-the-silent-killer-2/

I hope that helps to answer your question a little? :)
 
Hello to both of you who replied. I really really appreciate it.
BeBe was seen by my vet in January when she had her last gut stasis, so teeth and blood glucose were checked then.
I decided after posting my question here to ring my vet. (BeBe couldnt be coaxed into her pet carrier to take her. It's usually a long long task.
Given what I'd read from the two older posts I asked if I could have a little Emeprid to tide me over til Monday and after some discussion it was agreed. She is eating well and is defeacating
I will look into doing blood tests myself for the future. I hope it is do-able. I've never used infacol before. Though I'd read about it. It sound like a much less aggressive alternative. I don't know what the correct dosage would be thoughBeBe is 245g her real name is BB - big bunny (I think of him as a her because of her personality. )Would anybody happen to know please? if not I'll check at the vet's when they reopen Monday.
I'll print off the info from the links you've very kindly provided to keep and use.
Just waiting for a new lot of pellets to be extruded to determine conclusively which rabbit has the problem.
 
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Hello to both of you who replied. I really really appreciate it.
BeBe was seen by my vet in January when she had her last gut stasis, so teeth and blood glucose were checked then.
I decided after posting my question here to ring my vet. (BeBe couldnt be coaxed into her pet carrier to take her. It's usually a long long task.
Given what I'd read from the two older posts I asked if I could have a little Emeprid to tide me over til Monday and after some discussion it was agreed. She is eating well and is defeacating
I will look into doing blood tests myself for the future. I hope it is do-able. I've never used infacol before. Though I'd read about it. It sound like a much less aggressive alternative. I don't know what the correct dosage would be thoughBeBe is 245g her real name is BB - big bunny (I think of him as a her because of her personality. )Would anybody happen to know please? if not I'll check at the vet's when they reopen Monday.
I'll print off the info from the links you've very kindly provided to keep and use.
Just waiting for a new lot of pellets to be extruded to determine conclusively which rabbit has the problem.


You're very welcome :)

You seem to have a good relationship with your vet, and they trust you :thumb:

Infacol - I give 1ml every hour for three doses, and then one dose three times daily. I use it alongside tummy rubs, but only gently if you're not sure whether there is a blockage or not.

Good luck xx
 
Hello to both of you who replied. I really really appreciate it.
BeBe was seen by my vet in January when she had her last gut stasis, so teeth and blood glucose were checked then.
I decided after posting my question here to ring my vet. (BeBe couldnt be coaxed into her pet carrier to take her. It's usually a long long task.
Given what I'd read from the two older posts I asked if I could have a little Emeprid to tide me over til Monday and after some discussion it was agreed. She is eating well and is defeacating
I will look into doing blood tests myself for the future. I hope it is do-able. I've never used infacol before. Though I'd read about it. It sound like a much less aggressive alternative. I don't know what the correct dosage would be thoughBeBe is 245g her real name is BB - big bunny (I think of him as a her because of her personality. )Would anybody happen to know please? if not I'll check at the vet's when they reopen Monday.
I'll print off the info from the links you've very kindly provided to keep and use.
Just waiting for a new lot of pellets to be extruded to determine conclusively which rabbit has the problem.

With regards to Infacol, a few years ago a very Rabbit Savvy Vet, Marie Kubiak,

http://www.blacksvets.co.uk/meet-the-team/dr-marie-kubiak/

used to have time to post on here. This is a post from her regarding the use of Infacol

Infacol's method of action is to coalesce small bubbles (which have little response to gut contraction other than to wiggle about, but many small bubbles together create discomfort) into larger bubbles that are easier for the gut to contract around and move through. In humans gastric gas can be burped up, this is not possible in rabbits, so there is no benefit in giving simeticone or similar agents if there is known to be a stomach full of gas- it cannot change that in any way. The only way that gas can go out of the stomach is either by passing through the length of the intestines, or by being removed using a stomach tube.
I would be wanting to confirm whether the gas in the stomach was not being moved due to a lack of intestinal movements (ileus/stasis) or if there is an obstruction.
 
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Hello to both of you who replied. I really really appreciate it.
BeBe was seen by my vet in January when she had her last gut stasis, so teeth and blood glucose were checked then.
I decided after posting my question here to ring my vet. (BeBe couldnt be coaxed into her pet carrier to take her. It's usually a long long task.
Given what I'd read from the two older posts I asked if I could have a little Emeprid to tide me over til Monday and after some discussion it was agreed. She is eating well and is defeacating
I will look into doing blood tests myself for the future. I hope it is do-able. I've never used infacol before. Though I'd read about it. It sound like a much less aggressive alternative. I don't know what the correct dosage would be thoughBeBe is 245 g her real name is BB - big bunny (I think of him as a her because of her personality. )Would anybody happen to know please? if not I'll check at the vet's when they reopen Monday.
I'll print off the info from the links you've very kindly provided to keep and use.
Just waiting for a new lot of pellets to be extruded to determine conclusively which rabbit has the problem.


Do you mean 245g? :)

If you'd like any more info on using Infacol, do ask - Roxyroller88 has used it a lot and she has (unfortunately) had extensive experience of stasis.

Vets usually like to use their own conventional meds rather than something that isn't in fact made or licensed for rabbits (like Infacol), but my vet is a big fan and knows that it works :D
 
Hello Might Max and Jack s Jane
thank you both so much again. I'll take on board all the info from yourselves and a big thank you too to the other people who gave info in the links. I'll try to respond to your suggestions. BeBe is 2.45 kilos - the right weight for her size my vet says. because of her nervousness a tummy rub isn't on the cards just yet BUT she allows me it stroke her, (so different from ' give me a stroke now! Harriet ) mainly when she's eating so I'll use the that as a basis for starting gentle rubs.
Just going to post this bit, half of my last post wasn't accepted at first and I had to retype it
 
Ok that post worked. To continue........ This morning all seems much more settled both eating well, lively, no tiny droppings and only a few small drippings., though Im still not 110 % sure it was BeBe. In previous cases where it wasn't clear which one had the problem I'd easily coax greedy Harriet into the large pet carrier to separate the source of reduced droppings. I'll do this again if things go downhill. I know she doesn't like it
So provisionally I'll hold off further Emeprid. I did have a false alarm once before. I will get some Infacol to keep in reserve
I feel I need to give excuses/explain that although I wanted to delay a visit with a furry patient to my vet, til the Monday I would and have used, on two gut stasis occasions, an out of hours emergency vet once on a Sunday and once on a bank holiday. Both times at great expense! Ive relied on a state pension and a small dwindling amount of savings (thanks to said rabbits) to cover my vet bills(I also have Jazz my cat)
Thanks again. I'll give you an update.
 
Ok that post worked. To continue........ This morning all seems much more settled both eating well, lively, no tiny droppings and only a few small drippings., though Im still not 110 % sure it was BeBe. In previous cases where it wasn't clear which one had the problem I'd easily coax greedy Harriet into the large pet carrier to separate the source of reduced droppings. I'll do this again if things go downhill. I know she doesn't like it
So provisionally I'll hold off further Emeprid. I did have a false alarm once before. I will get some Infacol to keep in reserve
I feel I need to give excuses/explain that although I wanted to delay a visit with a furry patient to my vet, til the Monday I would and have used, on two gut stasis occasions, an out of hours emergency vet once on a Sunday and once on a bank holiday. Both times at great expense! Ive relied on a state pension and a small dwindling amount of savings (thanks to said rabbits) to cover my vet bills(I also have Jazz my cat)
Thanks again. I'll give you an update.

Out of hours Vet Fees can be :shock: I am in London too and the prices here seem to be especially high. Hopefully BeeBee and Harriet will remain well now with no more signs of gut slowdown.

Just to add that many people on here find that feeding fresh herbs and fresh forage rather than Veg can be of benefit to stasis prone Rabbits. Of course what helps one Rabbit may not help another, but perhaps it's something to bear in mind. These links may be useful to take a look at when you have time

https://www.harcourt-brown.co.uk/articles/free-food-for-rabbits/foraging

http://www.therabbithouse.com/blog/2014/06/04/rabbit-safe-weeds/

http://www.therabbithouse.com/blog/2017/06/06/foraging-for-rabbits-5-more-weeds/

http://www.actionforrabbits.co.uk/Toxic & Safe Plants v2.pdf

http://www.actionforrabbits.co.uk/Plants toxic to rabbits.pdf
 
Hello Might Max and Jack s Jane
thank you both so much again. I'll take on board all the info from yourselves and a big thank you too to the other people who gave info in the links. I'll try to respond to your suggestions. BeBe is 2.45 kilos - the right weight for her size my vet says. because of her nervousness a tummy rub isn't on the cards just yet BUT she allows me it stroke her, (so different from ' give me a stroke now! Harriet ) mainly when she's eating so I'll use the that as a basis for starting gentle rubs.
Just going to post this bit, half of my last post wasn't accepted at first and I had to retype it


You're really welcome :wave:

Yes tummy rubs alongside Infacol are an excellent thing, and when a rabbit feels poorly they often let you do the tummy rubs without a problem. They seem to know it's the right thing.

An excellent vet queried the use of Infacol recently, and the owner of the rabbit asked (as part of the treatment) for the UK vets to consult vets in the United States. Here's what the reply was ...

http://forums.rabbitrehome.org.uk/s...is-(Long-read-sorry)&highlight=sidditherabbit


We have a repeat prescription written out just in case but touch wood so far so good. The vets in the states signed off on infacol and 0.2ml syringe feed of it twice over 3 hours and belly rubs helped with his gas.
...As for the infacol max, that's right - the stateside vets who were given his medical notes recommended it be put in.



I think it's a shame to be put off something that's effective, cheap and does absolutely no harm :)
 
You're really welcome :wave:

Yes tummy rubs alongside Infacol are an excellent thing, and when a rabbit feels poorly they often let you do the tummy rubs without a problem. They seem to know it's the right thing.

An excellent vet queried the use of Infacol recently, and the owner of the rabbit asked (as part of the treatment) for the UK vets to consult vets in the United States. Here's what the reply was ...

http://forums.rabbitrehome.org.uk/s...is-(Long-read-sorry)&highlight=sidditherabbit


We have a repeat prescription written out just in case but touch wood so far so good. The vets in the states signed off on infacol and 0.2ml syringe feed of it twice over 3 hours and belly rubs helped with his gas.
...As for the infacol max, that's right - the stateside vets who were given his medical notes recommended it be put in.



I think it's a shame to be put off something that's effective, cheap and does absolutely no harm :)


Hope I'm doing this right will do a trial post..........
 
Sorry about that my IT skills aren't great, couldn't find how to reply different format seemed to be showing
Apologies for delay in replying, couldn't find my sheet with passwords, (I can't change the password provided by the forum and its an unmemorable one.
OK firstly Jacks Janet thanks for the links, I especially like the safe and unsafe ones with actual photos( the one i always used didn't.) some new ones, to me listed are readily available. I should have included the garden plants they eat, don't know why I didnt. I had actually thought I was giving them so many of these that it might be /was the reason they are currently eating very little hay, But hope/think the grass, garden plants, apple branches are a viable alternative to the hay.
Secondly Mighty Max, re the infacol I tried it with BeBe this morning and she wasn't keen at all. I think/know it's the smell, she is very fussy in this regard. After Harriet s last bout of GS my vet recommended pineapple(yes in know there are differing opinions on this) which she loves. offered it to BeBe and she literally RAN off. Ditto fennel leaves.
However M Max your last post, gave a much smaller dosage. As I just said BeBe wasn't keen but did eat a LITTLE of half of the original dosage suggested,that is to say .5ml. So she possibly had about .1or 2 Regrettably I read your post after I'd fed them first thing.:evil: I will try infacol again
IF anyone has a similar quandary I'd love to know if they've found a healthy, - see below-but appealing food to hide meds in
Syringe feeding is a no no, but she's usually very happy with banana(yes I know full of sugar and potassium but she must have her meds without totally stressing out)
Anyway, gave her a dose of Emeprid instead. Droppings slowly and but surely increasing in size.she DID allow me to give her a short tummy rub, well, more on her side perhaps. She IS lively. - trying to mount Harriet - (another issue but not life threatening) so exercise says that's good too, yes?
 
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Sorry about that my IT skills aren't great, couldn't find how to reply different format seemed to be showing
Apologies for delay in replying, couldn't find my sheet with passwords, (I can't change the password provided by the forum and its an unmemorable one.
OK firstly Jacks Janet thanks for the links, I especially like the safe and unsafe ones with actual photos( the one i always used didn't.) some new ones, to me listed are readily available. I should have included the garden plants they eat, don't know why I didnt. I had actually thought I was giving them so many of these that it might be /was the reason they are currently eating very little hay, But hope/think the grass, garden plants, apple branches are a viable alternative to the hay.
Secondly Mighty Max, re the infacol I tried it with BeBe this morning and she wasn't keen at all. I think/know it's the smell, she is very fussy in this regard. After Harriet s last bout of GS my vet recommended pineapple(yes in know there are differing opinions on this) which she loves. offered it to BeBe and she literally RAN off. Ditto fennel leaves.
However M Max your last post, gave a much smaller dosage. As I just said BeBe wasn't keen but did eat a LITTLE of half of the original dosage suggested,that is to say .5ml. So she possibly had about .1or 2 Regrettably I read your post after I'd fed them first thing.:evil: I will try infacol again
IF anyone has a similar quandary I'd love to know if they've found a healthy, - see below-but appealing food to hide meds in
Syringe feeding is a no no, but she's usually very happy with banana(yes I know full of sugar and potassium but she must have her meds without totally stressing out)
Anyway, gave her a dose of Emeprid instead. Droppings slowly and but surely increasing in size.she DID allow me to give her a short tummy rub, well, more on her side perhaps. She IS lively. - trying to mount Harriet - (another issue but not life threatening) so exercise says that's good too, yes?


Hiding meds ... I use organic baby food. Mine like the blueberries and bananas - Ella's Kitchen is a good brand. But there are carrot and parsnip and an array to choose from. I use this syringed, but you could also put it in a saucer.

I also find that making a kale/greens/apple smoothie, or a juice drink, works wonders :D
 
Thanks M Max,
Just read your post today,I'll try the baby food, I did have a go once (I think my vet had suggested it) though it wasn't successful then
However, that was before I cottoned onto the importance of smell for BeBe. I can try out a variety of baby foods if need be.
I think Be Be is gradually adapting to the infacol. As well as using infacol mixed into a small mashed up slice of banana on a saucer, Ive now started to rub a bit of kale on a banana, for its smell, and then one or two drops of the infacol on top of it. It's slow work (the kale is bought already chopped up into small bits , BUT she will now eat each bit I give her, whereas she wouldn't before, so, progress! the droppings continue to increase in size...... currently cautiously optimistic.

Thank you all so much for your help
Rosaleen BeBe and Harriet
 
Thanks M Max,
Just read your post today,I'll try the baby food, I did have a go once (I think my vet had suggested it) though it wasn't successful then
However, that was before I cottoned onto the importance of smell for BeBe. I can try out a variety of baby foods if need be.
I think Be Be is gradually adapting to the infacol. As well as using infacol mixed into a small mashed up slice of banana on a saucer, Ive now started to rub a bit of kale on a banana, for its smell, and then one or two drops of the infacol on top of it. It's slow work (the kale is bought already chopped up into small bits , BUT she will now eat each bit I give her, whereas she wouldn't before, so, progress! the droppings continue to increase in size...... currently cautiously optimistic.

Thank you all so much for your help
Rosaleen BeBe and Harriet


You're welcome :)

I hope those poops continue to grow bigger and bigger xx
 
Infacol and tummy rubs have been my best friend over the last 7 months! I asked Molly (Varga) about using it with my boy and she said it could certainly help and it certainly does for us :)
I'm just wondering why syringing is a no no? Does it stress her out a lot? I have a bun that refuses anything orally and for a long time we had to give injectable everything! He's also got head tilt so when he gets stressed it gets even harder because he goes really tilted! I have mastered the art of syringe feeding him now though if needs be. I have him between my knees on the floor, my legs crossed at the back so that he can't back oit and then I lean right over him, gently holding his face with my left hand and syringing with the right.
 
Infacol and tummy rubs have been my best friend over the last 7 months! I asked Molly (Varga) about using it with my boy and she said it could certainly help and it certainly does for us :)
I'm just wondering why syringing is a no no? Does it stress her out a lot? I have a bun that refuses anything orally and for a long time we had to give injectable everything! He's also got head tilt so when he gets stressed it gets even harder because he goes really tilted! I have mastered the art of syringe feeding him now though if needs be. I have him between my knees on the floor, my legs crossed at the back so that he can't back oit and then I lean right over him, gently holding his face with my left hand and syringing with the right.


I didn't know Molly was a fan - that's good to know :D
 
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