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Thread: gut stasis

  1. #1
    Young Bun
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    Default gut stasis

    hi
    I really hope you can help me. I'e just read some posts from 2009 and 2010 from members who took on medicating their rabbits which had sporadic gut stasis problems. One, without a consultation with their vet and 1 ringing the vet and being advised that he/she trusted the judgement of the owner.
    This intermittent problem is the same as my two rabbits. It was a bit of a relief to read these posts and find this type of recurrence is not that unusual .
    Mine have a good diet One eggcupful of pellets spread throughout the day between them, greens sprouts kale in moderation, apple leaves and branches and fresh grass(thought I've now just read on this forum that grass can cause gas) and of course lots and lots of hay.
    One of my two (not yet 100% sure which -but see below- as they are free roaming house rabbits ) is now producing smaller and smaller pellets. Appetite in both looks good. I've kept house rabbits for 12 years and don't think I have any potential gut stasis booby traps in my home.
    Have any other members 'taken on' this approach,diagnosing gut stasis themselves based on their experiences? And if so what has been the situation with their vet providing the necessary meds??
    I think it is my rabbit BeBe who has the current problem. He is a rescued rabbit and has always been a very timid nervous little soul, though not nearly as bad as when she first came to me in Nov 2015. As a result, vet visits are very traumatic for her. She has had two previous episodes, in the last 9 months.
    On neither occasion could the vet determine whether or not she had an actual blockage, but leant towards there not being one.
    Harriet,his companion rabbit,rescued at the same time, has had 3 gut stasis episodes over the same period. Only one of my other long lived rabbits ever had one episode.
    Any help would be appreciated. I have given BeBe one dose of Emeprid today,. It was left over from a previous occasion
    Last edited by rosaleen; 10-06-2017 at 02:54 PM.

  2. #2
    Wise Old Thumper Jack's-Jane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rosaleen View Post
    hi
    I really hope you can help me. I'e just read some posts from 2009 and 2010 from members who took on medicating their rabbits which had sporadic gut stasis problems. One, without a consultation with their vet and 1 ringing the vet and being advised that he/she trusted the judgement of the owner.
    This intermittent problem is the same as my two rabbits. It was a bit of a relief to read these posts and find this type of recurrence is not that unusual .
    Mine have a good diet One eggcupful of pellets spread throughout the day between them, greens sprouts kale in moderation, apple leaves and branches and fresh grass(thought I've now just read on this forum that grass can cause gas) and of course lots and lots of hay.
    One of my two (not yet 100% sure which -but see below- as they are free roaming house rabbits ) is now producing smaller and smaller pellets. Appetite in both looks good. I've kept house rabbits for 12 years and don't think I have any potential gut stasis booby traps in my home.
    Have any other members 'taken on' this approach,diagnosing gut stasis themselves based on their experiences? And if so what has been the situation with their vet providing the necessary meds??
    I think it is my rabbit BeBe who has the current problem. He is a rescued rabbit and has always been a very timid nervous little soul, though not nearly as bad as when she first came to me in Nov 2015. As a result, vet visits are very traumatic for her. She has had two previous episodes, in the last 9 months.
    On neither occasion could the vet determine whether or not she had an actual blockage, but leant towards there not being one.
    Harriet,his companion rabbit,rescued at the same time, has had 3 gut stasis episodes over the same period. Only one of my other long lived rabbits ever had one episode.
    Any help would be appreciated. I have given BeBe one dose of Emeprid today,. It was left over from a previous occasion
    Hello

    Unless you are able to ascertain whether or not the Rabbit has an obstruction giving prokinetics (eg Emeprid) could actually do a lot more harm than good. I dont know if you are able to palpate a Rabbit's abdomen and know what you are feeling- what is normal and what is abnormal ? Also, to listen to the abdomen using a stethoscope to check for gut sounds in all 4 quadrants. Other diagnostics may also be needed eg a blood glucose test. A significantly elevated blood glucose reading is an indicator of an obstruction- a surgical emergency. Also, gut stasis is often a secondary symptom of another problem, eg a Dental problem. So a Rabbit who has gut stasis also needs a Dental examination. Other possible causes of pain also need to be investigated. A Rabbit in pain for whatever reason is unlikely to eat. Thus resulting in reduced gut motility/gut stasis.

    As I said, I dont know your level of experience with regards to all of this, but for many Pet Rabbit owners it is always better to consult a Vet before administering any medication.

    These links may be useful to read :

    http://anyflip.com/dvpt/hzvv

    http://rabbitwelfare.co.uk/pdfs/ROWinter10p7.pdf

    https://rabbitwelfare.co.uk/rabbit-health/emergencies/

  3. #3
    Wise Old Thumper MightyMax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rosaleen View Post
    hi
    I really hope you can help me. I'e just read some posts from 2009 and 2010 from members who took on medicating their rabbits which had sporadic gut stasis problems. One, without a consultation with their vet and 1 ringing the vet and being advised that he/she trusted the judgement of the owner.
    This intermittent problem is the same as my two rabbits. It was a bit of a relief to read these posts and find this type of recurrence is not that unusual .
    Mine have a good diet One eggcupful of pellets spread throughout the day between them, greens sprouts kale in moderation, apple leaves and branches and fresh grass(thought I've now just read on this forum that grass can cause gas) and of course lots and lots of hay.
    One of my two (not yet 100% sure which -but see below- as they are free roaming house rabbits ) is now producing smaller and smaller pellets. Appetite in both looks good. I've kept house rabbits for 12 years and don't think I have any potential gut stasis booby traps in my home.
    Have any other members 'taken on' this approach,diagnosing gut stasis themselves based on their experiences? And if so what has been the situation with their vet providing the necessary meds??
    I think it is my rabbit BeBe who has the current problem. He is a rescued rabbit and has always been a very timid nervous little soul, though not nearly as bad as when she first came to me in Nov 2015. As a result, vet visits are very traumatic for her. She has had two previous episodes, in the last 9 months.
    On neither occasion could the vet determine whether or not she had an actual blockage, but leant towards there not being one.
    Harriet,his companion rabbit,rescued at the same time, has had 3 gut stasis episodes over the same period. Only one of my other long lived rabbits ever had one episode.
    Any help would be appreciated. I have given BeBe one dose of Emeprid today,. It was left over from a previous occasion

    Hi Rosaleen

    It's really difficult for anyone to advise you. You obviously have a lot of knowledge and experience, but it would really require a vet's visit in order to determine whether there's a blockage or not. Blood glucose level is a good indicator of that:

    Taken from Lecture Notes emailed to me by Frances Harcourt Brown

    Blood glucose is measured in mmol/ml (millimoles/litre)

    Normal: 4-8 mmol/ml

    2-4 mmol/ltr – needs food – rabbit is experiencing gut stasis
    If less that 2 mmol/ltr, call vet

    8-15 mmol/ltr Rabbit is stressed, but can stay at home
    More than 15mmol/ltr, less than 20 – Call vet, start to worry…
    More than 20 mmol/ltr, needs surgery.


    There are certainly people on this Forum who have a blood test kit and test their own rabbits prior to deciding whether they need a vet visit or not.

    The other thing would be taking the temperature. Again, some people are happy doing this and others aren't. Both these things, as well as palpating a rabbit's abdomen, would be things I would expect a vet to do for my rabbit during a consultation.

    Infacol is also a very good thing to use, whether or not there is a blockage. It will help gas to form into one big bubble and pass more easily. I don't know whether you have it, or have used it?

    http://www.infacol.co.uk

    There's some more reading about the condition here:

    http://anyflip.com/dvpt/hzvv/basic

    http://www.bunnylu.org/bloat.php

    http://rabbit.org/gastrointestinal-s...lent-killer-2/

    I hope that helps to answer your question a little?

  4. #4
    Young Bun
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    Hello to both of you who replied. I really really appreciate it.
    BeBe was seen by my vet in January when she had her last gut stasis, so teeth and blood glucose were checked then.
    I decided after posting my question here to ring my vet. (BeBe couldnt be coaxed into her pet carrier to take her. It's usually a long long task.
    Given what I'd read from the two older posts I asked if I could have a little Emeprid to tide me over til Monday and after some discussion it was agreed. She is eating well and is defeacating
    I will look into doing blood tests myself for the future. I hope it is do-able. I've never used infacol before. Though I'd read about it. It sound like a much less aggressive alternative. I don't know what the correct dosage would be thoughBeBe is 245g her real name is BB - big bunny (I think of him as a her because of her personality. )Would anybody happen to know please? if not I'll check at the vet's when they reopen Monday.
    I'll print off the info from the links you've very kindly provided to keep and use.
    Just waiting for a new lot of pellets to be extruded to determine conclusively which rabbit has the problem.
    Last edited by rosaleen; 10-06-2017 at 06:30 PM.

  5. #5
    Wise Old Thumper MightyMax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rosaleen View Post
    Hello to both of you who replied. I really really appreciate it.
    BeBe was seen by my vet in January when she had her last gut stasis, so teeth and blood glucose were checked then.
    I decided after posting my question here to ring my vet. (BeBe couldnt be coaxed into her pet carrier to take her. It's usually a long long task.
    Given what I'd read from the two older posts I asked if I could have a little Emeprid to tide me over til Monday and after some discussion it was agreed. She is eating well and is defeacating
    I will look into doing blood tests myself for the future. I hope it is do-able. I've never used infacol before. Though I'd read about it. It sound like a much less aggressive alternative. I don't know what the correct dosage would be thoughBeBe is 245g her real name is BB - big bunny (I think of him as a her because of her personality. )Would anybody happen to know please? if not I'll check at the vet's when they reopen Monday.
    I'll print off the info from the links you've very kindly provided to keep and use.
    Just waiting for a new lot of pellets to be extruded to determine conclusively which rabbit has the problem.

    You're very welcome

    You seem to have a good relationship with your vet, and they trust you

    Infacol - I give 1ml every hour for three doses, and then one dose three times daily. I use it alongside tummy rubs, but only gently if you're not sure whether there is a blockage or not.

    Good luck xx

  6. #6
    Wise Old Thumper Jack's-Jane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rosaleen View Post
    Hello to both of you who replied. I really really appreciate it.
    BeBe was seen by my vet in January when she had her last gut stasis, so teeth and blood glucose were checked then.
    I decided after posting my question here to ring my vet. (BeBe couldnt be coaxed into her pet carrier to take her. It's usually a long long task.
    Given what I'd read from the two older posts I asked if I could have a little Emeprid to tide me over til Monday and after some discussion it was agreed. She is eating well and is defeacating
    I will look into doing blood tests myself for the future. I hope it is do-able. I've never used infacol before. Though I'd read about it. It sound like a much less aggressive alternative. I don't know what the correct dosage would be thoughBeBe is 245g her real name is BB - big bunny (I think of him as a her because of her personality. )Would anybody happen to know please? if not I'll check at the vet's when they reopen Monday.
    I'll print off the info from the links you've very kindly provided to keep and use.
    Just waiting for a new lot of pellets to be extruded to determine conclusively which rabbit has the problem.
    With regards to Infacol, a few years ago a very Rabbit Savvy Vet, Marie Kubiak,

    http://www.blacksvets.co.uk/meet-the...-marie-kubiak/

    used to have time to post on here. This is a post from her regarding the use of Infacol

    Quote Originally Posted by marie_kubiak View Post
    Infacol's method of action is to coalesce small bubbles (which have little response to gut contraction other than to wiggle about, but many small bubbles together create discomfort) into larger bubbles that are easier for the gut to contract around and move through. In humans gastric gas can be burped up, this is not possible in rabbits, so there is no benefit in giving simeticone or similar agents if there is known to be a stomach full of gas- it cannot change that in any way. The only way that gas can go out of the stomach is either by passing through the length of the intestines, or by being removed using a stomach tube.
    I would be wanting to confirm whether the gas in the stomach was not being moved due to a lack of intestinal movements (ileus/stasis) or if there is an obstruction.
    Last edited by Jack's-Jane; 11-06-2017 at 05:06 AM. Reason: spelling

  7. #7
    Wise Old Thumper MightyMax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rosaleen View Post
    Hello to both of you who replied. I really really appreciate it.
    BeBe was seen by my vet in January when she had her last gut stasis, so teeth and blood glucose were checked then.
    I decided after posting my question here to ring my vet. (BeBe couldnt be coaxed into her pet carrier to take her. It's usually a long long task.
    Given what I'd read from the two older posts I asked if I could have a little Emeprid to tide me over til Monday and after some discussion it was agreed. She is eating well and is defeacating
    I will look into doing blood tests myself for the future. I hope it is do-able. I've never used infacol before. Though I'd read about it. It sound like a much less aggressive alternative. I don't know what the correct dosage would be thoughBeBe is 245 g her real name is BB - big bunny (I think of him as a her because of her personality. )Would anybody happen to know please? if not I'll check at the vet's when they reopen Monday.
    I'll print off the info from the links you've very kindly provided to keep and use.
    Just waiting for a new lot of pellets to be extruded to determine conclusively which rabbit has the problem.

    Do you mean 245g?

    If you'd like any more info on using Infacol, do ask - Roxyroller88 has used it a lot and she has (unfortunately) had extensive experience of stasis.

    Vets usually like to use their own conventional meds rather than something that isn't in fact made or licensed for rabbits (like Infacol), but my vet is a big fan and knows that it works

  8. #8
    Young Bun
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    Hello Might Max and Jack s Jane
    thank you both so much again. I'll take on board all the info from yourselves and a big thank you too to the other people who gave info in the links. I'll try to respond to your suggestions. BeBe is 2.45 kilos - the right weight for her size my vet says. because of her nervousness a tummy rub isn't on the cards just yet BUT she allows me it stroke her, (so different from ' give me a stroke now! Harriet ) mainly when she's eating so I'll use the that as a basis for starting gentle rubs.
    Just going to post this bit, half of my last post wasn't accepted at first and I had to retype it

  9. #9
    Young Bun
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    Ok that post worked. To continue........ This morning all seems much more settled both eating well, lively, no tiny droppings and only a few small drippings., though Im still not 110 % sure it was BeBe. In previous cases where it wasn't clear which one had the problem I'd easily coax greedy Harriet into the large pet carrier to separate the source of reduced droppings. I'll do this again if things go downhill. I know she doesn't like it
    So provisionally I'll hold off further Emeprid. I did have a false alarm once before. I will get some Infacol to keep in reserve
    I feel I need to give excuses/explain that although I wanted to delay a visit with a furry patient to my vet, til the Monday I would and have used, on two gut stasis occasions, an out of hours emergency vet once on a Sunday and once on a bank holiday. Both times at great expense! Ive relied on a state pension and a small dwindling amount of savings (thanks to said rabbits) to cover my vet bills(I also have Jazz my cat)
    Thanks again. I'll give you an update.

  10. #10
    Wise Old Thumper Jack's-Jane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rosaleen View Post
    Ok that post worked. To continue........ This morning all seems much more settled both eating well, lively, no tiny droppings and only a few small drippings., though Im still not 110 % sure it was BeBe. In previous cases where it wasn't clear which one had the problem I'd easily coax greedy Harriet into the large pet carrier to separate the source of reduced droppings. I'll do this again if things go downhill. I know she doesn't like it
    So provisionally I'll hold off further Emeprid. I did have a false alarm once before. I will get some Infacol to keep in reserve
    I feel I need to give excuses/explain that although I wanted to delay a visit with a furry patient to my vet, til the Monday I would and have used, on two gut stasis occasions, an out of hours emergency vet once on a Sunday and once on a bank holiday. Both times at great expense! Ive relied on a state pension and a small dwindling amount of savings (thanks to said rabbits) to cover my vet bills(I also have Jazz my cat)
    Thanks again. I'll give you an update.
    Out of hours Vet Fees can be I am in London too and the prices here seem to be especially high. Hopefully BeeBee and Harriet will remain well now with no more signs of gut slowdown.

    Just to add that many people on here find that feeding fresh herbs and fresh forage rather than Veg can be of benefit to stasis prone Rabbits. Of course what helps one Rabbit may not help another, but perhaps it's something to bear in mind. These links may be useful to take a look at when you have time

    https://www.harcourt-brown.co.uk/art...bbits/foraging

    http://www.therabbithouse.com/blog/2...it-safe-weeds/

    http://www.therabbithouse.com/blog/2...-5-more-weeds/

    http://www.actionforrabbits.co.uk/To...lants%20v2.pdf

    http://www.actionforrabbits.co.uk/Pl...%20rabbits.pdf

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